Swiss Int'l Airlines
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good for you dude!!!
if you like swissgerman, I am sad for you! worse language,I even prefer barking dogs!
as for answer from the swiss governement, one of my freind sent this to me
Monsieur
Nous avons bien reçu votre email.
Si Swiss n'engage pas de personnel dépassant un certain âge, nous ne pouvons rien y faire. C'est une question de politique de l'entreprise, et c'est leur droit de décider à quelles conditions ils engagent du personnel. Si vous aimeriez connaître les raisons pour ces restrictions, veuillez vous adresser directement à Swiss.
Meilleures salutations
I translate 4 u:
"f. u moron, we dont give a sh..t if you are a old fart pilot at 39, get you a decent job, and dont call us again cuz we have a nice seat in bern where i can seat my ass all day long, we dont need respect the swiss/EU law, so again f...u and f...k all roastbeefs who try to come in our nice country!!!"
if you like swissgerman, I am sad for you! worse language,I even prefer barking dogs!
as for answer from the swiss governement, one of my freind sent this to me
Monsieur
Nous avons bien reçu votre email.
Si Swiss n'engage pas de personnel dépassant un certain âge, nous ne pouvons rien y faire. C'est une question de politique de l'entreprise, et c'est leur droit de décider à quelles conditions ils engagent du personnel. Si vous aimeriez connaître les raisons pour ces restrictions, veuillez vous adresser directement à Swiss.
Meilleures salutations
I translate 4 u:
"f. u moron, we dont give a sh..t if you are a old fart pilot at 39, get you a decent job, and dont call us again cuz we have a nice seat in bern where i can seat my ass all day long, we dont need respect the swiss/EU law, so again f...u and f...k all roastbeefs who try to come in our nice country!!!"
Last edited by dartagnan; 14th May 2009 at 15:41.
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Wow. That's the most negative thing I have read on here so far. You make it sound like Switzerland is a bad country to live in.
By the way, that's not what the letter says. It says politely to contact swiss because there's nothing they can do to help you. What happened that makes you view the swiss so negatively?
By the way, that's not what the letter says. It says politely to contact swiss because there's nothing they can do to help you. What happened that makes you view the swiss so negatively?
Last edited by Flugmaschine; 14th May 2009 at 19:20.
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dartagnan:
is that for real? and what was the question for getting the answer like this..
UAU,
and btw unfortunately I also heard that when the swissair (edited) bankrupted or whatever, they laid off all the foreign pilots...
cheers
is that for real? and what was the question for getting the answer like this..
UAU,
and btw unfortunately I also heard that when the swissair (edited) bankrupted or whatever, they laid off all the foreign pilots...
cheers
Last edited by alkor; 14th May 2009 at 20:40.
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Alkor, aare you talking about "Swissair" or current "SWISS"? I'm 100% but I dont think SWISS has been bankrupt. 
Also, I wanted to know more about the pension/retirement at SWISS. What is the company contribution after retirement? And is 55 still the retirement age? If so, WOW! It's 65 here in the states. Too much work for too long, in my opinion. Thanks guys! Keep the information coming! I need to keep learning about what's going on at SWISS. Ciao!
Also, I wanted to know more about the pension/retirement at SWISS. What is the company contribution after retirement? And is 55 still the retirement age? If so, WOW! It's 65 here in the states. Too much work for too long, in my opinion. Thanks guys! Keep the information coming! I need to keep learning about what's going on at SWISS. Ciao!
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Not to to criticize Swiss. I don´t know much about Swiss. What I can say is that it is true that when Swissair was in trouble they first sacked all the foreigners, no matter how long they were there. I good friend of mine was one of the first to go at that time.
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N1, I don't know why you attacked me, since I agreed with you...
Anyway, your ppjn figure is not correct. You get 4th year salary as a DEP, that's 60k in SWU and 70 in SWR.
It's correct that 1000h MPA gives you the right to apply for SWR, but you still have to do the training, and during this training you still can get the Avro job. If you have turboprop or regional training you most probably end up in SWU. Which is not a bad thing. You just have to know that. Until you're 38 (?) you have the right to apply for main line, i.e. SWR. They generally take the younger collegues on the Avros, while some argue that they rather put those on the Avros, who they didn't like.
I agree that there is no Swissair and no Crossair anymore, but the boundaries are still alive, mainly in the salary list. Generally in the office there's only former Swissair guys, management is purely Swissair, while top management is Lufthansa. Older former Crossair guys are mostly frustrated and try to change ships or get a LOL case. They also do not have a union, the last one has been destroyed.
Still it's a fine job, also in prospect of the CS110 order for 2014 or so. Just putting things into perspective.
Dani
Anyway, your ppjn figure is not correct. You get 4th year salary as a DEP, that's 60k in SWU and 70 in SWR.
It's correct that 1000h MPA gives you the right to apply for SWR, but you still have to do the training, and during this training you still can get the Avro job. If you have turboprop or regional training you most probably end up in SWU. Which is not a bad thing. You just have to know that. Until you're 38 (?) you have the right to apply for main line, i.e. SWR. They generally take the younger collegues on the Avros, while some argue that they rather put those on the Avros, who they didn't like.
I agree that there is no Swissair and no Crossair anymore, but the boundaries are still alive, mainly in the salary list. Generally in the office there's only former Swissair guys, management is purely Swissair, while top management is Lufthansa. Older former Crossair guys are mostly frustrated and try to change ships or get a LOL case. They also do not have a union, the last one has been destroyed.
Still it's a fine job, also in prospect of the CS110 order for 2014 or so. Just putting things into perspective.
Dani
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No intention to attack you, dear Dani, especially not you, but I am trying to put things into facts. Maybe you got your infos from too far away, while I am in the middle of it, with all its goodies and badies...
For the facts about requirements, check once again this. There you'll find the all the figures and traps about getting into SWISS, including all specials and temporary entries into its salary list, which is a tad more complicated than you told us here, Dani.
BTW: DEP into SWR has been pulled from the SWISS site just as of today. No comment about that.
About the relationships and boundaries between SWU and SWR:
Its true that the two pilot bodies exist, mainly due to SWISS appreciating the two as a 'divide et empera' thing.
The relationship is on the contrary very good, which I can witness from many different perspectives (many common courses, training, daily life, night stops, ...). I never experienced any single conflict and was very surprised, when I started some time ago, how good the relationship is. And I was quite biased towards SWR, I must admit...
I understand that the way, SWU people are 'allowed' into SWR is not up to perfection (giving up seniority etc.). But I believe that anyone coming over to SWR is quite happy, thats at least what I hear.
To sum it up:
It's not heaven and neither hell. But its quite ok to be with SWISS as a pilot with some perspective for long haul, a certain job security in the LH environment while living in Switzerland - despite the barking people
- and a management, which does things quite clever... (nobody cares if they all are SWR or SWU, which is anyway not true, btw. They are all LH...)
Enjoy, wherever you are!
N1
PS, what I forgot: 'Sacking foreigners first' and all that BS... Everything goes acc. seniority and believe me: being sacked before many, many foreigners because of seniority in 2001 assured me of that... Thats the way it is. (Cannot comment on CRX, tough. Old Moritz quite sure had his own way of running things...)
For the facts about requirements, check once again this. There you'll find the all the figures and traps about getting into SWISS, including all specials and temporary entries into its salary list, which is a tad more complicated than you told us here, Dani.
BTW: DEP into SWR has been pulled from the SWISS site just as of today. No comment about that.
About the relationships and boundaries between SWU and SWR:
Its true that the two pilot bodies exist, mainly due to SWISS appreciating the two as a 'divide et empera' thing.
The relationship is on the contrary very good, which I can witness from many different perspectives (many common courses, training, daily life, night stops, ...). I never experienced any single conflict and was very surprised, when I started some time ago, how good the relationship is. And I was quite biased towards SWR, I must admit...
I understand that the way, SWU people are 'allowed' into SWR is not up to perfection (giving up seniority etc.). But I believe that anyone coming over to SWR is quite happy, thats at least what I hear.
To sum it up:
It's not heaven and neither hell. But its quite ok to be with SWISS as a pilot with some perspective for long haul, a certain job security in the LH environment while living in Switzerland - despite the barking people
- and a management, which does things quite clever... (nobody cares if they all are SWR or SWU, which is anyway not true, btw. They are all LH...)Enjoy, wherever you are!
N1
PS, what I forgot: 'Sacking foreigners first' and all that BS... Everything goes acc. seniority and believe me: being sacked before many, many foreigners because of seniority in 2001 assured me of that... Thats the way it is. (Cannot comment on CRX, tough. Old Moritz quite sure had his own way of running things...)
Last edited by N1 and ITT; 15th May 2009 at 07:53.
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PS, what I forgot: 'Sacking foreigners first' and all that BS... Everything goes acc. seniority and believe me: being sacked before many, many foreigners because of seniority in 2001 assured me of that... Thats the way it is.
PS. I am not saying anything about Swiss. I am just referring to Swissair. I guess the Swiss climate has little to do with the former Swissair. Or am I mistaking?
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Sabena-guys got hired in June or July 2001, second last initial course in history of SR, Swissair bankrupt in Oct 2001. So their group (I believe they were about 6 guys and gals) were number six or so on the seniority list. They were kicked out in Feb 2002 accordingly, behind the last six or so and before all the other 170 lost souls... So they were NOT the first ones, because the 'list' was followed strictly as it should be...
Nothing to do with work permits. And not their fault either, despite the fact that nobody understood why they were hired in the first place with the situation of SR already looking pretty ****ty... But that was maybe political considerations against the whole Sabena-situation. Once again: not their fault.
Some of them even returned to SWISS and I believe they are quite happy, too.
N1
Nothing to do with work permits. And not their fault either, despite the fact that nobody understood why they were hired in the first place with the situation of SR already looking pretty ****ty... But that was maybe political considerations against the whole Sabena-situation. Once again: not their fault.
Some of them even returned to SWISS and I believe they are quite happy, too.
N1
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Hey look! Another Swiss (Crossair versus Swissair) topic! Hahahaha, some things never change, and that includes all the negative experiences of foreigners working for a Swiss company!
Flugmachine, just do a quick search on my username and you'll see a lot of topics about how Swiss(air) deals with it's pilots. Read through it and then decide if you want to be treated as a second class citizen.
On a personal note, even yours truly, Robert Vesco, received a nice letter from LX a few years ago, asking me to come back on the Pigalino (a.k.a. Jumbolino/AVRO) fleet. So just for fun, I called the nice lady in recruitment back saying that I already had a valid A320 rating and ±1500 hours on type. I asked her if there was any chance to start on the LX A320 fleet and the answer was: "no, you are ex-Crossair, you can only join (and stay!) on the P!SS European Airlines fleet for SFr 60k/year." So then, after I was finished laughing, I thanked her for her sincere and blatant racism and wished her all the best in trying to sucker people into this lousy deal.
p.s. Robert is now flying long haul wide body for a nice and well respected European company.
Switzerland is a nice country for a few weeks on vacation, but don't expect a fair treatment as a foreigner if you want to work there. You are warned!
Flugmachine, just do a quick search on my username and you'll see a lot of topics about how Swiss(air) deals with it's pilots. Read through it and then decide if you want to be treated as a second class citizen.
On a personal note, even yours truly, Robert Vesco, received a nice letter from LX a few years ago, asking me to come back on the Pigalino (a.k.a. Jumbolino/AVRO) fleet. So just for fun, I called the nice lady in recruitment back saying that I already had a valid A320 rating and ±1500 hours on type. I asked her if there was any chance to start on the LX A320 fleet and the answer was: "no, you are ex-Crossair, you can only join (and stay!) on the P!SS European Airlines fleet for SFr 60k/year." So then, after I was finished laughing, I thanked her for her sincere and blatant racism and wished her all the best in trying to sucker people into this lousy deal.
p.s. Robert is now flying long haul wide body for a nice and well respected European company.
Switzerland is a nice country for a few weeks on vacation, but don't expect a fair treatment as a foreigner if you want to work there. You are warned!
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It's not the race or the country - it's the language, stupid!
They like to have German conversation in their cockpit. OK, that's also racism, but I understand and also happen to enjoy it. The same is valid in Air France, Italian Airlines, Spanish, German, wherever you look.
The only pure English speaking airlines are the British and the US's...
They like to have German conversation in their cockpit. OK, that's also racism, but I understand and also happen to enjoy it. The same is valid in Air France, Italian Airlines, Spanish, German, wherever you look.
The only pure English speaking airlines are the British and the US's...
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Not racism. Racism has to do with ethnicity or skin color. Discrimination is the word you're searching for. But maybe it's both? I'm not sure because I don't work in Schweiz.
Don't forget canada speaks english too! Sorry to be a smart ass.
Personally I don't believe in race, only human variation. We're all human beings (except for airline management).
By the way, are you at SWISS Dani?
Don't forget canada speaks english too! Sorry to be a smart ass.
Personally I don't believe in race, only human variation. We're all human beings (except for airline management).
By the way, are you at SWISS Dani?
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Dani and Flugmaschine; 
And for Roberto and consortes:
Im happy to report that only some outsiders and frustrated ones seem to be stuck in the old days of Moritz and all that crap. For the benefit of the employees and the company of today, these old reflexes of CRX vs. SWR are gone finally, at least within the company and that's what counts, isn't it?
Lets not forget that LX/SWR/SWU is (at least) right now one of the very few airlines offering direct entry onto an airbus or avro with prospect for longhaul, without the usual and eternal rip off.
Now, be good boys and give the questions of Flugmaschine et alt decent answers.
N1
And for Roberto and consortes:
Im happy to report that only some outsiders and frustrated ones seem to be stuck in the old days of Moritz and all that crap. For the benefit of the employees and the company of today, these old reflexes of CRX vs. SWR are gone finally, at least within the company and that's what counts, isn't it?
Lets not forget that LX/SWR/SWU is (at least) right now one of the very few airlines offering direct entry onto an airbus or avro with prospect for longhaul, without the usual and eternal rip off.
Now, be good boys and give the questions of Flugmaschine et alt decent answers.
N1
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Without the eternal ripoff? Are there some airlines that make you pay for the job? Most airlines in the states are direct entry, no airline branded schools. Except for one or two that I can think of.
By the way, I appreciate everyone's input on SWISS. It is helpful to get opinions/perspectives from all angles. I think overall SWISS is a good company, far better than most US airlines. I still have a lot to learn about the airline politics in Europe as a whole but from what I've seen, it's a little better than the situation in the US. Current economics have got most pilots in a tight bind around the world.
By the way, I appreciate everyone's input on SWISS. It is helpful to get opinions/perspectives from all angles. I think overall SWISS is a good company, far better than most US airlines. I still have a lot to learn about the airline politics in Europe as a whole but from what I've seen, it's a little better than the situation in the US. Current economics have got most pilots in a tight bind around the world.
Last edited by Flugmaschine; 15th May 2009 at 23:31.
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It's not the race or the country - it's the language, stupid!
Now, be good boys and give the questions of Flugmaschine et alt decent answers.
Flugmachine, stay away from Swiss and Switzerland! There are plenty of countries in Europe where foreigners are not treated as second class citizens, but Switzerland is not on that list...
p.s. The recession has also struck Europe, so forget about going through the hassle to convert your license and coming here to find work. Very few jobs.
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Well, the truth may lay somewhere between N1 and Robert - they both just want to defend their own way.
Swiss is a good company, with a bright future. And most pilot (especially those who never experienced the ugly wars of the founders) will enjoy working there. Still there is a huge gap between SWU and SWR, and you have to know that if you want to work there. It's mainly the material side, as I said (pay and pension). Again, up to postholder level everything is former Swissair. A SWU pilot has no chance to enter this management level. There is one exception - and I guess hardly any SWU guy relates with him anymore. There is only one pilot union, Aeropers, a very strong union, in the sense of VC or Balpa. They only represent SWR pilots. SWU pilots are doing as they are told. I could tell you more facts that underline the gap between SWU and SWR.
Luftmaschine, I'm not in Swiss anymore. But I have relatives in there. So my information is as good as my own's.
Forget also the rest about discrimination and general assaults against Switzerland's law and policies. Switzerland is one of the nicest country to live and work in. That's what a huge crowd of foreigners found out since we opened the border for EU citizens. Zurich has become a German enclave - mostly in a good sense. They wouldn't come here if they wouldn't want to. I know quite a few ab intios from abroad in Swiss, and they all like it very very very much.
Dani
Swiss is a good company, with a bright future. And most pilot (especially those who never experienced the ugly wars of the founders) will enjoy working there. Still there is a huge gap between SWU and SWR, and you have to know that if you want to work there. It's mainly the material side, as I said (pay and pension). Again, up to postholder level everything is former Swissair. A SWU pilot has no chance to enter this management level. There is one exception - and I guess hardly any SWU guy relates with him anymore. There is only one pilot union, Aeropers, a very strong union, in the sense of VC or Balpa. They only represent SWR pilots. SWU pilots are doing as they are told. I could tell you more facts that underline the gap between SWU and SWR.
Luftmaschine, I'm not in Swiss anymore. But I have relatives in there. So my information is as good as my own's.
Forget also the rest about discrimination and general assaults against Switzerland's law and policies. Switzerland is one of the nicest country to live and work in. That's what a huge crowd of foreigners found out since we opened the border for EU citizens. Zurich has become a German enclave - mostly in a good sense. They wouldn't come here if they wouldn't want to. I know quite a few ab intios from abroad in Swiss, and they all like it very very very much.
Dani
Last edited by Dani; 16th May 2009 at 17:05.
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Guezii Flugmaschine
i was 7 years with Swiss on the Jumbolini, and left 2 years ago. I am more than happy that i left. I should have done that earlier. I dont miss a single day.
Take this foreigner thing what others write rather serious
.
I f you dont get something ,take it and than leave. But if you have something only little better, try to avoid Swiss.
As there are lots of foreigners coming to Switzerland as Dani writes, there are also a lot foreigners leaving...(Article in German newspaper half a year ago)..for that reason
.
Good Luck
TA
i was 7 years with Swiss on the Jumbolini, and left 2 years ago. I am more than happy that i left. I should have done that earlier. I dont miss a single day.
Take this foreigner thing what others write rather serious.I f you dont get something ,take it and than leave. But if you have something only little better, try to avoid Swiss.
As there are lots of foreigners coming to Switzerland as Dani writes, there are also a lot foreigners leaving...(Article in German newspaper half a year ago)..for that reason
.Good Luck
TA
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Very interesting topic!! I'm quite astonished that some of you did not mention all of us who did all the interviews back in 2000-2001 and just had the door closed in front of our nose. Now, applying again, after some years of doing other stuff and finally flying, we are told to re-do all the selection process. Has any one of you some infos concerning what is being asked this time for a DEP/ready entry F/O? Is that exactly the same like the SAT/SRAS Swissair test, like maths, sciences, calculation and memory test. Then a second day of this PIT Trainer and funny apparaten test, etc etc etc?!
Many many thank's for your kind answer!
Lear Jockey
Many many thank's for your kind answer!
Lear Jockey
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Why do you think Swiss European is looking for pilots when everybody else stopped recruitments, or even making people redundants? They had a bunch of well experienced pilots (CNs and FOs) a few yeras back, but most of them ran away in 2006/7 when there was plenty of jobs on the market. Why? Because those people had more than enough of being treated like second class pilots, being forced new contracts with lesser conditions, having to swallow bulls**t from management as to those new conditions were according industry standard (you fly small planes, you get crap money), etc... And it was not a nationality thing, lots of Swiss nationals left as well (actually most of them were from GENF )
Anyway if you guys/girls are desperate for a job, go ahead but don't plan for a career there. I did and wasted 8 years in this crapy airline. Actually some years were with Crossair and that was rather fun despite a ridiculously low salary.
Swiss mainline (airbus fleet) is probably better but as mentionned earlier be ready to suffer a Schwyzer dütsch brain damage.
I know I sound bitter about the whole thing... that's because I am.
Josey out.
) Anyway if you guys/girls are desperate for a job, go ahead but don't plan for a career there. I did and wasted 8 years in this crapy airline. Actually some years were with Crossair and that was rather fun despite a ridiculously low salary.
Swiss mainline (airbus fleet) is probably better but as mentionned earlier be ready to suffer a Schwyzer dütsch brain damage.
I know I sound bitter about the whole thing... that's because I am.
Josey out.
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Partly correct, Studi. You also have to compare the package with the taxation. After tax, the package might be higher than in LH. Not everyone is in your situation.