Age Discrimination at Emirates
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Quote: "Why are you still a copilot at age 54?"
We live in an era of ever increasing change. There are many persons who have made career changes! Becoming a pilot at a later age is not unusual these days.
We live in an era of ever increasing change. There are many persons who have made career changes! Becoming a pilot at a later age is not unusual these days.
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Chippybus, certainly there are options out there; I am currently looking at 330positions where age is not eliminating. My reason to post was the fact that for some reason ECONOMY is more important than SAFETY to airlines: when I say safety I am considering my experience, professionalism, safety record and dedication. All they are interested in is investment vs. productivity.On being 54 AND NOT A CAPTAIN, consider I started flying at 34, and in any case HAVE BEEN A CAPTAIN, with over 6K. So what , Glueball, whats the point ? Do you see my point ?
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Hopefully, you are not running an airline...
Otherwise you would have systematically hired the most 'experienced' pilots, for the sake of the safety...Is that right?
Well, I have to tell you that if you look closely and carefully into accident reports, you will unfortunately find more 'experienced' pilots than you think. Most of them, with clean safety record.
Have you ever thought that you have been discriminate in a deep economical crisis period? I am sure you would have been considered in a more prosperous time. You just knocked the door a bit late.
Otherwise you would have systematically hired the most 'experienced' pilots, for the sake of the safety...Is that right?
Well, I have to tell you that if you look closely and carefully into accident reports, you will unfortunately find more 'experienced' pilots than you think. Most of them, with clean safety record.
Have you ever thought that you have been discriminate in a deep economical crisis period? I am sure you would have been considered in a more prosperous time. You just knocked the door a bit late.
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ADFS,
Sorry you seem to have come under attack by a few of the so called colleagues and fellow professionals (I use the term loosely for two individuals particularly) who are so insecure that they feel you have slighted them in some way. I think the rest of us get the idea, and I hope you get yourself sorted with something soon, as I am sure you will. 50's are the new 30's so they say, which is great because that must make me a teenager again! You'll get snapped up i'm sure
Sorry you seem to have come under attack by a few of the so called colleagues and fellow professionals (I use the term loosely for two individuals particularly) who are so insecure that they feel you have slighted them in some way. I think the rest of us get the idea, and I hope you get yourself sorted with something soon, as I am sure you will. 50's are the new 30's so they say, which is great because that must make me a teenager again! You'll get snapped up i'm sure
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Thanks dustyprops, nice to get some positive feedback. The 2, wizofos and shortfuel, are undeniably insecure, and obviously new to the profession. I was particularly upset by wizo´s "....and who the hell cares...." pity, the way the world has lost its basic respect for the human condition. I´ll bet in case of an emergency evacuation those 2 would be the first out, nevermind the passengers and crew, because " who the hell cares..."
Pathetic and way off course from what I am talking about.
Thanks to all you guys that responded in a positive way....I am interviewing shortly for DEC at Jazeera and Jet Bird, Oman Air....losing my current 330 job at Eurofly on 15th April, so hope to have some luck.
Pathetic and way off course from what I am talking about.
Thanks to all you guys that responded in a positive way....I am interviewing shortly for DEC at Jazeera and Jet Bird, Oman Air....losing my current 330 job at Eurofly on 15th April, so hope to have some luck.
ECONOMY is more important than SAFETY to airlines: when I say safety I am considering my experience, professionalism, safety record and dedication.
I have significantly more experience than you and am 10 years your junior. Would an airline be ignoring SAFETY if they hired you instead of me?
I'm sorry, but do you see that suggesting that an airline is compromising safety because they didn't hire you might come off as being just a LITTLE egotistical?
Did the first airline YOU worked for "Compromise saftey" by employing you, instead of someone more experienced?
Last edited by Wizofoz; 26th Mar 2009 at 10:55.
Seems our posts crossed AFDS.
The "Who the hell cares" was a quote fron YOUR post, the thrust of which seemed to be that Emirates should have taken your personal circumstances into account when deciding whether to hire you or not.
I notice YOU don't seem to care whether the person who DID get the position was ALSO in need- you DESERVE the job and the hell with everybody else it seems.
If you are in dire circumstances, I do sympathise. I was out on my ear with 2 small kids 3 days after 9/11- but if we had been both going for a job then, would you have gallently stepped aside or taken the decistion of the employer?
I didn't get every job I applied for, including a few that would have been a god-send. But when I got knocked back I didn't rage with rightous indignation that :They compromise saftey because they didn't hie ME!!"...I got on with the process and got myself another job.
...And I trust that at these interviews, you will be informing them that if they DON'T hire you, you'll be all over the internet accusing them of "Compromising Saftey"
The "Who the hell cares" was a quote fron YOUR post, the thrust of which seemed to be that Emirates should have taken your personal circumstances into account when deciding whether to hire you or not.
I notice YOU don't seem to care whether the person who DID get the position was ALSO in need- you DESERVE the job and the hell with everybody else it seems.
If you are in dire circumstances, I do sympathise. I was out on my ear with 2 small kids 3 days after 9/11- but if we had been both going for a job then, would you have gallently stepped aside or taken the decistion of the employer?
I didn't get every job I applied for, including a few that would have been a god-send. But when I got knocked back I didn't rage with rightous indignation that :They compromise saftey because they didn't hie ME!!"...I got on with the process and got myself another job.
I am interviewing shortly for DEC at Jazeera and Jet Bird, Oman Air....
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wizofoz, just what is your problem ?
I think you have clearly misinterpreted me from the start...as far as your " significantly more experience than you..." I am happy for you. I am not going to get into it, because you probably are talking about what, total hours ?
By the way, I stand by my last post: a little inner reflection on your part might be called for... and believe me, I am not the type of person to cry over internet, but yes denounce discrimination situations that you so seem to justify
I think you have clearly misinterpreted me from the start...as far as your " significantly more experience than you..." I am happy for you. I am not going to get into it, because you probably are talking about what, total hours ?
By the way, I stand by my last post: a little inner reflection on your part might be called for... and believe me, I am not the type of person to cry over internet, but yes denounce discrimination situations that you so seem to justify
Well, AFDS, you seem to like throwing your 13k/6k around as evidence why YOU should have been hired.
You don't like the fact that your age was taken into account. Fine. I take it that, if you were an employer, you would always be MOST careful not to take race/age/religion/gender into consideration, whether it was legislated or not.
But if you really want to characterize your previous posts as anything other than a whinge because you were disappointed you weren't hired, or stand by a statement like "They put economy before safety" because they didn't hire YOU, I really don't feel it's me most in need of introspection here.
I also note that anyone who agrees with you is open to praise, anyone who might dare to question you "has a problem".
Should you find further attempts at gaining employment futile, I really would have a long look at your attitude towards criticism
You don't like the fact that your age was taken into account. Fine. I take it that, if you were an employer, you would always be MOST careful not to take race/age/religion/gender into consideration, whether it was legislated or not.
But if you really want to characterize your previous posts as anything other than a whinge because you were disappointed you weren't hired, or stand by a statement like "They put economy before safety" because they didn't hire YOU, I really don't feel it's me most in need of introspection here.
I also note that anyone who agrees with you is open to praise, anyone who might dare to question you "has a problem".
Should you find further attempts at gaining employment futile, I really would have a long look at your attitude towards criticism
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well, yes, of course wizofoz, you are absolutely right, thanks for the magnificent insight to how it all works...
all I am saying is, again: because of my age I am completely eliminated from the selection process; not even given a chance to prove my worth...this is equal to race discrimination, which I suppose you´ll have a smart answer for. In any case, enough is enough; go ahead and post your 1494th post to enlighten the rest of us
all I am saying is, again: because of my age I am completely eliminated from the selection process; not even given a chance to prove my worth...this is equal to race discrimination, which I suppose you´ll have a smart answer for. In any case, enough is enough; go ahead and post your 1494th post to enlighten the rest of us
Actually, it will be 1,945. Not good with numbers?
I am sorry you were passed over, and, in many societies, doing so because of age is not considered acceptable.
But you didn't apply for a job in YOUR society, and to be upset that the people in this part of the world run their business by their rules isn't going to get you anywhere.
Unlike race, age DOES effect your long term value as an employee. Would you expect to be employed in a country that has a mandatory retirement age of 65 at 64 1/2? 63?
Point is, it's their train set, and to get upset and start making outrageous statements about safety because things didn't go your way does not present you in the best light.
Did you post on a public website to get honest opinion, or just re-assurance, and anyone who doesn't agree can "Go to hell"?
I am sorry you were passed over, and, in many societies, doing so because of age is not considered acceptable.
But you didn't apply for a job in YOUR society, and to be upset that the people in this part of the world run their business by their rules isn't going to get you anywhere.
Unlike race, age DOES effect your long term value as an employee. Would you expect to be employed in a country that has a mandatory retirement age of 65 at 64 1/2? 63?
Point is, it's their train set, and to get upset and start making outrageous statements about safety because things didn't go your way does not present you in the best light.
Did you post on a public website to get honest opinion, or just re-assurance, and anyone who doesn't agree can "Go to hell"?
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wizofoz, are you such the bad person that I imagine you are by your venomous posts ? Come on, try and understand my situation...can´t you understand what I am saying ? Everybody else does, why not you ? I am not looking for a pat on the back and I certainly am not as naive as you make me out to be and your sarcasm is actually starting to annoy me so why dont you bugger off and stick your head back in the sand to think up your next sick posting. bla bla bla, you bore everybody
ADFS, to be honest, I find it is YOUR attitude that seems slightly out of line. Your responses to Wizofoz have been full of agression, puking smilies, smilies bangieng their head against the wall, you told him to bugger off etc. etc. He has been friendly enough I think. Just because you don't like what he says doesn't justify your posting style. And please, speak for yourself. He is NOT boring everybody else. I have enjoyed his posts more than yours. And I tend to agree with what he had to say on this topic.
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Age discrimination
Most major airlines have a max. age for hiring FO`s, some even have a minimum and maximum height of the applicant, some airlines still refuse to employ female pilots.
Many airlines also do not inform the applicant why he/she was not successful.
Telling an Arabic airline reqruitment department you are dissatisfied with their policies on reqruitment, will get you a blank stare and a shoulder shrug, and it will not change the fact of you not getting hired.
The fact that you are obviously experienced, and well qualified, does not nessecerily land you a job. These days Airlines can pick and choose among vast numbers of applicants, most of them well qualified.
I hope you get a job soon, but do not feel they owe you the job when you do the interview.
Good luck
Many airlines also do not inform the applicant why he/she was not successful.
Telling an Arabic airline reqruitment department you are dissatisfied with their policies on reqruitment, will get you a blank stare and a shoulder shrug, and it will not change the fact of you not getting hired.
The fact that you are obviously experienced, and well qualified, does not nessecerily land you a job. These days Airlines can pick and choose among vast numbers of applicants, most of them well qualified.
I hope you get a job soon, but do not feel they owe you the job when you do the interview.
Good luck
733,
Thanks very much for the support but, whilst I certainly stand by what I have written, it is obvious that AFDS is going through a tough time.
Yes he has been rude and unreasonable, but having been in a similar situation, I can forgive him that and wish him the best, while letting this topic quietly finish.
Thanks very much for the support but, whilst I certainly stand by what I have written, it is obvious that AFDS is going through a tough time.
Yes he has been rude and unreasonable, but having been in a similar situation, I can forgive him that and wish him the best, while letting this topic quietly finish.