Jetstream 41 - Romania
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
From: romania
they are a lot of better places to live then romania....but 3rd world country i think is too much said 
....let's end this here, and talk about jetstream 41 
...i am curious to find out new things about this a/c...especially training...thx
....let's end this here, and talk about jetstream 41 ...i am curious to find out new things about this a/c...especially training...thx
Last edited by dannutz; 13th March 2009 at 21:30.
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 195
Likes: 0
From: North West
Seems to be a risky time to expand an airline, anyone know what sort of routes they will be operating?
If the aircraft are coming from Eastern, I would guess that eastern will be providing the training as well, possibly engineering and some flight crew support in the early stages. There are only two J41 simulators, one at Humberside with Eastern, and the other in the USA.
There are some aircraft manuals here:
If the aircraft are coming from Eastern, I would guess that eastern will be providing the training as well, possibly engineering and some flight crew support in the early stages. There are only two J41 simulators, one at Humberside with Eastern, and the other in the USA.
There are some aircraft manuals here:
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 591
Likes: 36
From: The middle
Happyjack,
"What kind of "professional" invests £100k on their future and then leaves their wife, children and home to work for peanuts in an expensive rented (probably shared) flat in a country they would never choose to even visit?"
I'm seriously considering this and if offered the opportunity will probably take it up. I didn't invest £100k on my future - I washed aeroplanes and cut the grass at a flying club to help pay for flying lessons, and after 22 years of full time employment as a pilot (with a suitable number of flying hours to match) and having flown in the left hand seat of piston, turboprop and jet aircraft of varying sorts I find myself unemployed and receiving £60 per week in job seekers allowance, hence I have time to sit and post this.
I would be interested to know how you decide that flying a J41 in Romania will make me somehow less professional than flying a 737 in Spain? I would also be very pleased to know which pub it is that you can earn 2800 Euros per month in, most of the pubs where I live are paying minimum wage to bar staff at the moment, and none of the ones I have tried have any vacancies at the moment anyway...
"What kind of "professional" invests £100k on their future and then leaves their wife, children and home to work for peanuts in an expensive rented (probably shared) flat in a country they would never choose to even visit?"
I'm seriously considering this and if offered the opportunity will probably take it up. I didn't invest £100k on my future - I washed aeroplanes and cut the grass at a flying club to help pay for flying lessons, and after 22 years of full time employment as a pilot (with a suitable number of flying hours to match) and having flown in the left hand seat of piston, turboprop and jet aircraft of varying sorts I find myself unemployed and receiving £60 per week in job seekers allowance, hence I have time to sit and post this.
I would be interested to know how you decide that flying a J41 in Romania will make me somehow less professional than flying a 737 in Spain? I would also be very pleased to know which pub it is that you can earn 2800 Euros per month in, most of the pubs where I live are paying minimum wage to bar staff at the moment, and none of the ones I have tried have any vacancies at the moment anyway...
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 84
Likes: 0
From: SEA
Lately I see many pilot openings in Eastern Europe and I was wondering how is that possible when the whole world goes through some tough time? I have tried to explain myself this economic nonsense. The only conclusion I was able to come up with is that countries such as Romania, with total lack of economy, still has some money given by EU left to spend. All this money have been derailed to local mafia which now is trying to make a profit out of it. They have no clue how to run a business but they have the money and try to cover themselves with some business plans hoping to make more money. According to aviation's principle where you need to spend 100 dollars to make one dollar, probably their stolen money will go fast, so the guys getting a job on those places will be on the streets again soon. So these jobs might be futile anyway. 
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 195
Likes: 0
From: North West
If the rumour of 4 aircraft is true, and in the current climate, I reckon it must be some sort of highly secure contract work that has been won. Someone mentions earlier in the thread that the parent company already does Post flights?
Either a pax service for a government agency, or they will be taking the seats out and moving parcels and mailbags.....
Either a pax service for a government agency, or they will be taking the seats out and moving parcels and mailbags.....
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 889
Likes: 0
From: UK, US, now more ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀
One of them said that they don't like the gypsies because they give Romania a bad name etc.
Well, being 'from the region' I dare to say that Romania and its population has Romas inherent to that society. Much more than other Central European or Balkan countries. There's not that big difference in the looks, whether more 'Turkish' or 'Greek' looks or Roma/Gypsy.
pi$$-take
begging is nuissance
excrab is right.
Pro flying job is just that. If what they could offer doesn't suit you, why complaining, just forget it. 'Western salaries' aren't worldwide for that reason. If some Asian airlines need expats and can shell out for decent salaries, why not.
Although my experience is mainly negative regarding Romania or Bulgaria and their nationals, there's lots of bad apples everywhere and if one went by the experience of, say Czech expats/illegals in the USA, they'd conclude that the country's full of convicts..
You guys can't forget that the 'further away' you go from Western Europe and Med tourist destinations, the less foreigners actually living in those countries. Whether more of a novelty, or opportunity to rip them off.
I do remember 'tourist rates' in Central Europe that were 3-4x higher for Austrians, Germans etc (hotels, services, tourism) as mere mortal local wouldn't afford it and local rates would be laughably low for Westerners.
End of rant. Get a grip.
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 84
Likes: 0
From: SEA
Quote:
One of them said that they don't like the gypsies because they give Romania a bad name etc.
Ehm, after checking with Wiki, there's almost 2mil of Romani/Gypsies/Travellers which is about 9%, but stats are never great, likely to be more.
Well, being 'from the region' I dare to say that Romania and its population has Romas inherent to that society. Much more than other Central European or Balkan countries. There's not that big difference in the looks, whether more 'Turkish' or 'Greek' looks or Roma/Gypsy.
Quote:
pi$$-take
Well, average/sort of middle class and if anything below, population feels that way just by living in the country. You can't compare expat salaries for everywhere. They definitely are more than reasonable for local price levels.
Quote:
begging is nuissance
Some Romanian travellers already having travelled to the UK and Ireland and exported these traditions to cities here. Whole gangs/families.
excrab is right.
Pro flying job is just that. If what they could offer doesn't suit you, why complaining, just forget it. 'Western salaries' aren't worldwide for that reason. If some Asian airlines need expats and can shell out for decent salaries, why not.
Although my experience is mainly negative regarding Romania or Bulgaria and their nationals, there's lots of bad apples everywhere and if one went by the experience of, say Czech expats/illegals in the USA, they'd conclude that the country's full of convicts..
You guys can't forget that the 'further away' you go from Western Europe and Med tourist destinations, the less foreigners actually living in those countries. Whether more of a novelty, or opportunity to rip them off.
I do remember 'tourist rates' in Central Europe that were 3-4x higher for Austrians, Germans etc (hotels, services, tourism) as mere mortal local wouldn't afford it and local rates would be laughably low for Westerners.
End of rant. Get a grip.
One of them said that they don't like the gypsies because they give Romania a bad name etc.
Ehm, after checking with Wiki, there's almost 2mil of Romani/Gypsies/Travellers which is about 9%, but stats are never great, likely to be more.
Well, being 'from the region' I dare to say that Romania and its population has Romas inherent to that society. Much more than other Central European or Balkan countries. There's not that big difference in the looks, whether more 'Turkish' or 'Greek' looks or Roma/Gypsy.
Quote:
pi$$-take
Well, average/sort of middle class and if anything below, population feels that way just by living in the country. You can't compare expat salaries for everywhere. They definitely are more than reasonable for local price levels.
Quote:
begging is nuissance
Some Romanian travellers already having travelled to the UK and Ireland and exported these traditions to cities here. Whole gangs/families.
excrab is right.
Pro flying job is just that. If what they could offer doesn't suit you, why complaining, just forget it. 'Western salaries' aren't worldwide for that reason. If some Asian airlines need expats and can shell out for decent salaries, why not.
Although my experience is mainly negative regarding Romania or Bulgaria and their nationals, there's lots of bad apples everywhere and if one went by the experience of, say Czech expats/illegals in the USA, they'd conclude that the country's full of convicts..
You guys can't forget that the 'further away' you go from Western Europe and Med tourist destinations, the less foreigners actually living in those countries. Whether more of a novelty, or opportunity to rip them off.
I do remember 'tourist rates' in Central Europe that were 3-4x higher for Austrians, Germans etc (hotels, services, tourism) as mere mortal local wouldn't afford it and local rates would be laughably low for Westerners.
End of rant. Get a grip.
ROMA is a generic term for gypsies/romany. But it is also the name of a city in Italy. ROME - ROMA - CAPITAL of ITALY. (Ya know, where Vatican is..etc..etc.).Pff....('')
Romani (as gypsies call themselves, sometimes with an "i", sometimes with a "y" at the end, and generic "ROMA"), is also the term used to describe the inhabitants of a country called ROMANIA, the last country to bear the name of the old ROMAN EMPIRE.
In the Romanian language: "Romani" means Romanians. Natives of ROMANIA, a EU member nation.
To the uneducated citizens of Europe and the rest of the world it seems very easy to confuse the ROMANIANS (native inhabitants of Romania since at least the ROMAN EMPIRE times, A.D. 100), with ROMA/ROMANI/Y, an ethnic population/race which migrated towards Europe around A.D. 1322.
In view of the recent events in Italy, one needs to be aware of the fact that gypsies assumed the name of ROMA/ROMANI/Y, therefore creating the confusion between the name of ROMANIA and ROMANIANS (the native inhabitants of ROMANIA), and ROMA/ROMANI/Y.
This was highly premeditated by the gypsies(natives of India) and had, as end result, confused Europe and the rest of the world.
If it is ROMA and ROMANI, they must come from ROMANIA, and therefore all ROMANIANS are gypsies. Whatta GAS !!..Oh boy !
Not only do gypsies identify with ROMANIA, but also with ROMA, Italy, therefore 2(two) countries are affected - Romania and Italy.
If gypsies call themselves ROMA, they must come from ROME, Italy. Right?
Also it is true they run that country. They are the politicians and the new mafia. They got all this power after the second war when no locals wanted to join the commies, so the ruskies replaced the locals with gypsies. In a way the Romanians are strangers in their own country. Kind like Native-Americans here. I traveled through Romania and although a first impression is screwed, once you travel deep country and get to know real locals they are wonderful and noble people. Real descedents of Romans.
The Soros Foundation is the author of this stupid invention called Roma integration decade. In fact, the only thing they wanted to get was to "grant" gypsies with a fake European identity. The victim was easy to find and easy to double-cross: the new and tormented state, with a new and confused democracy: Romania speacially being the only original locals and everybody else is a migrator in Europe, such as Bulgarians, Yogoslavians, Hungarians, Ukrainians.
Gipsies are from India and are among the last migrating people in Europe. They are very protected by UN
Rome and Romania, Roman Emperors, Byzantine Emperors, etc.
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
From: Europe
Countbat,
Thank you for the history lesson, 90 percent and the idea behind it - very correct.
One little thing though.. Romania is not run by gipsies, that is untrue. It is run by Romanians, by all means. The regions where gipsies are a majority are scarce. Population of Romania is about 22 milion, out of which, the minorities are spread as follows:
aprox 6.6% Hungarians, 2.5% gipsies and under 0.5% of other nationalities like Germans, Turks, Ucranians, etc.
Yes, gipsies are a big problem, because they are not civilised by any means and the former communist regime did a bad job regarding them as you correctly said in your post. On the other part, we are in the EU and it would be hard, impossible and politically incorect to send them all to where they came from hundreds of years ago. (although many many would like that very much indeed)
And yes, I say it again, they are a big problem. But one should not fall in the trap and think Romania is gypsyland and that you will get robbed at every step.
If you follow tourist-in-a-foreign-country common sense, Romania can be a pleasurable experience. You can get robbed on the streets of Berlin or Amsterdam or London or Bruselles or Dublin or Madrid or Paris, you name it.
There are a great deal (keeping the proportion) of foreign, western European pilots currently flying in Romania and enjoying it very much.
As for the more or less dubious financing of the Eastern European aviation companies and the fact that they need pilots, that is another matter. Think about the fact that unlike western Europe, the East has poor infrastructure and air travel started appeal to many, especially with the recent years drop in ticket prices. In Romania alone, there are 22 milion people spread on a surface as big as the UK, with just 1-5% of the infrastructure of the UK. Air travel can actually be a good business in Eastern Europe these days. And yes, the local companies probably are at an advantage, starting by knowing the local 'habits', but that is true for any country, don't you think?
So I would not necesarily follow the advice of those saying 'don't go and fly in Romania'. As it had been said here, it might not be everyone's cup of tea, but for those who feel allright here, it might just be a decent job like any other.
And one more myth I feel necessary to brake. It is not true that pilot jobs in Romania are poorly paid. While not at par with the Western majors, the pay is decent -in the range og 2-3K EUR per month for an FO and 3.5-6 K EUR per month for a Capt- and one can surely make a good living out of it.
Sorry for the long post, but many untrue things have been said here and I am under the impression that they have been said with little to none local knowdlege whatsoever.
Thank you for the history lesson, 90 percent and the idea behind it - very correct.
One little thing though.. Romania is not run by gipsies, that is untrue. It is run by Romanians, by all means. The regions where gipsies are a majority are scarce. Population of Romania is about 22 milion, out of which, the minorities are spread as follows:
aprox 6.6% Hungarians, 2.5% gipsies and under 0.5% of other nationalities like Germans, Turks, Ucranians, etc.
Yes, gipsies are a big problem, because they are not civilised by any means and the former communist regime did a bad job regarding them as you correctly said in your post. On the other part, we are in the EU and it would be hard, impossible and politically incorect to send them all to where they came from hundreds of years ago. (although many many would like that very much indeed)
And yes, I say it again, they are a big problem. But one should not fall in the trap and think Romania is gypsyland and that you will get robbed at every step.
If you follow tourist-in-a-foreign-country common sense, Romania can be a pleasurable experience. You can get robbed on the streets of Berlin or Amsterdam or London or Bruselles or Dublin or Madrid or Paris, you name it.
There are a great deal (keeping the proportion) of foreign, western European pilots currently flying in Romania and enjoying it very much.
As for the more or less dubious financing of the Eastern European aviation companies and the fact that they need pilots, that is another matter. Think about the fact that unlike western Europe, the East has poor infrastructure and air travel started appeal to many, especially with the recent years drop in ticket prices. In Romania alone, there are 22 milion people spread on a surface as big as the UK, with just 1-5% of the infrastructure of the UK. Air travel can actually be a good business in Eastern Europe these days. And yes, the local companies probably are at an advantage, starting by knowing the local 'habits', but that is true for any country, don't you think?
So I would not necesarily follow the advice of those saying 'don't go and fly in Romania'. As it had been said here, it might not be everyone's cup of tea, but for those who feel allright here, it might just be a decent job like any other.
And one more myth I feel necessary to brake. It is not true that pilot jobs in Romania are poorly paid. While not at par with the Western majors, the pay is decent -in the range og 2-3K EUR per month for an FO and 3.5-6 K EUR per month for a Capt- and one can surely make a good living out of it.
Sorry for the long post, but many untrue things have been said here and I am under the impression that they have been said with little to none local knowdlege whatsoever.
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 591
Likes: 36
From: The middle
Happy Jack,
Ok I apologise, I've done the maths and you're right.
Working 70 hours a week in the pub I could earn £2800 per month. Thats 10 hours work a day 7 days a week. I'm not sure where I'm going to get to fit in a normal life though. Unless I decide to work 5 on 2 off in the pub. That would make it better, except that on my 5 days on I'm going to have to work 14 hours a day. I might have done it when I was 18, but I'm not going to do it now, if I had wanted to work hard i wouldn't have become a pilot.
We obviously have different expectations at the moment. You have decided to turn it down, as you say in your first post. I have decided to look at it, and if I should get an interview I can ask the questions and see what is being offered and make a decision. However the contract terms I have seen don't appear that bad (certainly not as bad as you say in your first post). To me it seems a fair renumeration for flying a small turboprop, based on the number of hours they are asking for from non-type rated pilots. It isn't jobs like this that have destroyed the industry, it is SSTRs from Easyjet, Ryan air and CTC.
Ok I apologise, I've done the maths and you're right.
Working 70 hours a week in the pub I could earn £2800 per month. Thats 10 hours work a day 7 days a week. I'm not sure where I'm going to get to fit in a normal life though. Unless I decide to work 5 on 2 off in the pub. That would make it better, except that on my 5 days on I'm going to have to work 14 hours a day. I might have done it when I was 18, but I'm not going to do it now, if I had wanted to work hard i wouldn't have become a pilot.
We obviously have different expectations at the moment. You have decided to turn it down, as you say in your first post. I have decided to look at it, and if I should get an interview I can ask the questions and see what is being offered and make a decision. However the contract terms I have seen don't appear that bad (certainly not as bad as you say in your first post). To me it seems a fair renumeration for flying a small turboprop, based on the number of hours they are asking for from non-type rated pilots. It isn't jobs like this that have destroyed the industry, it is SSTRs from Easyjet, Ryan air and CTC.
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 84
Likes: 0
From: SEA
Countbat,
Thank you for the history lesson, 90 percent and the idea behind it - very correct.
One little thing though.. Romania is not run by gipsies, that is untrue. It is run by Romanians, by all means. The regions where gipsies are a majority are scarce. Population of Romania is about 22 milion, out of which, the minorities are spread as follows:
aprox 6.6% Hungarians, 2.5% gipsies and under 0.5% of other nationalities like Germans, Turks, Ucranians, etc.
Yes, gipsies are a big problem, because they are not civilised by any means and the former communist regime did a bad job regarding them as you correctly said in your post. On the other part, we are in the EU and it would be hard, impossible and politically incorect to send them all to where they came from hundreds of years ago. (although many many would like that very much indeed)
Thank you for the history lesson, 90 percent and the idea behind it - very correct.
One little thing though.. Romania is not run by gipsies, that is untrue. It is run by Romanians, by all means. The regions where gipsies are a majority are scarce. Population of Romania is about 22 milion, out of which, the minorities are spread as follows:
aprox 6.6% Hungarians, 2.5% gipsies and under 0.5% of other nationalities like Germans, Turks, Ucranians, etc.
Yes, gipsies are a big problem, because they are not civilised by any means and the former communist regime did a bad job regarding them as you correctly said in your post. On the other part, we are in the EU and it would be hard, impossible and politically incorect to send them all to where they came from hundreds of years ago. (although many many would like that very much indeed)
During my period there I tried to understand the non senses going on, the lack of local culture and intensive imitation of what's understood of western culture special American, extremely poverty among ordinary people, extremely over night rich few, bad manners and everybody's tendency to get something out of you, lack of work ethics. The only viable explanation I was able to get was from some very nice locals who explained to me what I posted earlier. They told me the real locals have been marginalized and the country is run by foreigners, special urbanized gypsies. Although they don't look anymore like traditional gypsy image, they are the ones robbing the country dry, impoverishes the locals, creating the Mafia and politicians. If I am wrong I apologize.
However I know 3 American investors friends who lost all their money in Romania to local habits. When someone is asking me how good of idea is to invest in that country I always say NO, if they care for their money. Personally I tried to start an historic project north of the country where V Legio Macedonica was stationed but I was stopped and asked for extremely outrages high bribes for something which they would have benefited anyway.
I also strongly believe UE is wrong giving money to that country because everything is, like I said, derailed to few mafia and politicians pockets. Sorry for locals. They don't deserve this.
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 84
Likes: 0
From: SEA
Like I said it earlier. This was an easy way for some local “ big shot ” with political influence to derail some of EU dedicated to Romania funds. Open a company, show you have serious intention, get the money, close the company, keep the money, be proud of yourself for being extremely smart and EU extremely stupid. Welcome to Eastern Europe business model.
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 263
Likes: 0
From: inside of a pretty bustard
ok guys, I saw most of your posts, and I have the impression of a political talk-show, I mean someone asked infos regarding a future job, and now you are dealing about, romania, romanians, gipsys, bigshot on romanian economy, how poor are the romanians, etc......well I personally said and I am sustaining my opinion about the opportunity of romania to be member of EU.To be fair , romania has not and will not have in the immediate future the quality of an true EU member, but it is just EU wich needed another 22 millions of people inside.Why?, because of globalisation gentlemen, all of EU product have to be sold, romania represents after poland, the second easteuropean market.I know, it is not easy to educate 22 millions people, to make in a night rich 22 millions people, to cover all romania surface with hundred km of highways, and so on...... I saw many situations inside romania , but also abroad.Good things and bad things.What can I say , especially political class, justice, police are labeled as most corrupted, but, tell me a country ,worldwide , when everything is perfect......as regarding citizens , could anyone tell me if in the street, or in a public place to ask for some help and to be refused? yes, it is a long way to catch westeuropean countries, but never say never.good night!
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 84
Likes: 0
From: SEA
So has anybody heard anything about this job..? I was contacted around beginning of January for this and still nothin....