VA - no more pilot group, we want pilots and CC together
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Pilots are only more important when part of the onboard hierarchy. Once away from the airport, they are simply fellow employees. Pilots do not deserve better standards of accommodation, higher allowances, first room allocation, better crew meals, higher priority staff travel, seperate crew transport, extra hotel freebies such as wi-fi or dry cleaning...
Pilots absolutely deserve some of the above. That will be the day I wait in the lobby while the F/A's get their rooms.
"Command Authority" is the order for hotel check-in.
It wasn't that long ago the Skipper got a Suite. Thanks to the F/A's (and the Airline capitulating) we are into the "...we are all equal" B.S.
Give them an inch..and they take a mile.
We are NOT equal, F/A's just have to get over it.
Pilots absolutely deserve some of the above. That will be the day I wait in the lobby while the F/A's get their rooms.
"Command Authority" is the order for hotel check-in.
It wasn't that long ago the Skipper got a Suite. Thanks to the F/A's (and the Airline capitulating) we are into the "...we are all equal" B.S.
Give them an inch..and they take a mile.
We are NOT equal, F/A's just have to get over it.
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Wow, what a can of worms you've just opened up! Should captains get the suite and f/as share the twin? I guess it depends on the culture of the company/place. Being from egalitarian Australia, I was shocked recently when I saw a crew manager with a swipe card being able to park his car in a different car-park closer to the terminal when we all have to walk the extra 30 metres to the employees' car park.
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Pilots are highly skilled individuals, and deserve as much as they can squeeze out of a company! But does that mean that CC do not deserve the right to get as much as they can too.
Perhaps doing it as a collective isn't such a bad thing... If you guys fight for free wi-fi or dry cleaning, then we'll get it too on the VA agreement. Woo Hoo!
Johnny767:
I am not trying to say that pilots and crew are equals!
We're much better! Pilots just need to Get over it!
On the whole, we are less arrogant, less condescending, less sleazy, and don't drink $100 bottles of wine at dinner and try to make the whole crew split the bill! Oh and many of the guys have more hair too!
If you don't like working with CC, go to a cargo airline!
Perhaps doing it as a collective isn't such a bad thing... If you guys fight for free wi-fi or dry cleaning, then we'll get it too on the VA agreement. Woo Hoo!
Johnny767:
I am not trying to say that pilots and crew are equals!
We're much better! Pilots just need to Get over it!
On the whole, we are less arrogant, less condescending, less sleazy, and don't drink $100 bottles of wine at dinner and try to make the whole crew split the bill! Oh and many of the guys have more hair too!
If you don't like working with CC, go to a cargo airline!
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Goes back around to what I said at the start,
Piloting is a profession, Cabin attendant is a job.
Simple.
Oh, and interestingly, the Captain IS still responsible for the actions of the crew 'down route'.
Also, whilst I have never drunk $100 bottles of wine, especially when a good cold beer is available, it has been my experience over the last 22 years that many, although not all by a long way, of the CC have deep pockets and short arms when it comes to getting the round in.
Piloting is a profession, Cabin attendant is a job.
Simple.
Oh, and interestingly, the Captain IS still responsible for the actions of the crew 'down route'.
Also, whilst I have never drunk $100 bottles of wine, especially when a good cold beer is available, it has been my experience over the last 22 years that many, although not all by a long way, of the CC have deep pockets and short arms when it comes to getting the round in.
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dangerous papercuts
Oldtora,
you forgot to mention the dangerous situation that middle managers find themselves in and need to be on constant alert for paper-cuts.
you forgot to mention the dangerous situation that middle managers find themselves in and need to be on constant alert for paper-cuts.
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Hell of a thread!!
As a Senior Engineer with an International carrier, I have to say that the attitude shown by the pilots(professionals!) to the Cabin-crew(non-professionals!) is not surprising.
Most of my Engineers experience the same attitude from the pilots as has been shown here. We have the final say on an aircraft's technical state. We are fully accountable for the work done on the aircraft and are qualified to Bsc(IEng) level. We are supervisory staff, having up to 20 direct reports at any 1 time and have to oversee their work and certify it. Now do we fall into the heady role of PROFESSIONAL as stated by pilots. Or (as I suspect), do pilots deem themselves to be the only professionals in the Airline.
I dont have a chip on my shoulder about flight crew as I earn more than most of them(perhaps due to my 7-8 years of study!!). What gets me most is that the people that deem themselves to be the most professional seem to act the worst to their work colleagues.
Minor rant!
As a Senior Engineer with an International carrier, I have to say that the attitude shown by the pilots(professionals!) to the Cabin-crew(non-professionals!) is not surprising.
Most of my Engineers experience the same attitude from the pilots as has been shown here. We have the final say on an aircraft's technical state. We are fully accountable for the work done on the aircraft and are qualified to Bsc(IEng) level. We are supervisory staff, having up to 20 direct reports at any 1 time and have to oversee their work and certify it. Now do we fall into the heady role of PROFESSIONAL as stated by pilots. Or (as I suspect), do pilots deem themselves to be the only professionals in the Airline.
I dont have a chip on my shoulder about flight crew as I earn more than most of them(perhaps due to my 7-8 years of study!!). What gets me most is that the people that deem themselves to be the most professional seem to act the worst to their work colleagues.
Minor rant!
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Tested Satis,
You would be happy to be on the same contract as the Cabin Crew, 3 week induction course, after your 7-8 years of study then?
That is entirely the point.
As I also have engineering qualifications I am always happy to see the engineers and enjoy the light hearted banter that exists between our two professions. Same as I am the Cabin Crew. Personally I sadly miss the halcyon days of 3 man crews.
I just don't want to be on the same contract as the Cabin Crew.
You would be happy to be on the same contract as the Cabin Crew, 3 week induction course, after your 7-8 years of study then?
That is entirely the point.
As I also have engineering qualifications I am always happy to see the engineers and enjoy the light hearted banter that exists between our two professions. Same as I am the Cabin Crew. Personally I sadly miss the halcyon days of 3 man crews.
I just don't want to be on the same contract as the Cabin Crew.
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professions?
I thought clowns like you were extinct. Dinosaurs I believe you're called. Sorry pal, let me just get you a coffee and your steak. If you're not trying to alienate crew, some of us who have been doing our "hobby" not of course our profession for 10 years or more, you're doing a p-ss poor job.
Pilot Incapacitation........what a tragedy
:ma d:
Pilot Incapacitation........what a tragedy
:ma d:
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Cal777
Well that puerile load of drivel certainly does your point some good.
Oddly enough non of this thread has been about 'alienating' anybody. Ironically the entire thrust of the thread was purely to differentiate the two roles that the respective bodies play on the aircraft hence the requirement to have separate contracts.
The most people who post such vehement objections based on 'alienation' obviously have their own axe to grind. Feel free.
Welcome to the PROFESSIONAL PILOTS rumour network. If you don't like it then form the PCCRuNe.
Go peddle your childish rants there and let the adults 'discuss' the points here.
Different roles, different contracts. Get over it.
Well that puerile load of drivel certainly does your point some good.
Oddly enough non of this thread has been about 'alienating' anybody. Ironically the entire thrust of the thread was purely to differentiate the two roles that the respective bodies play on the aircraft hence the requirement to have separate contracts.
The most people who post such vehement objections based on 'alienation' obviously have their own axe to grind. Feel free.
Welcome to the PROFESSIONAL PILOTS rumour network. If you don't like it then form the PCCRuNe.
Go peddle your childish rants there and let the adults 'discuss' the points here.
Different roles, different contracts. Get over it.
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Hell of a thread!!
As a Senior Engineer with an International carrier, I have to say that the attitude shown by the pilots(professionals!) to the Cabin-crew(non-professionals!) is not surprising.
Most of my Engineers experience the same attitude from the pilots as has been shown here. We have the final say on an aircraft's technical state. We are fully accountable for the work done on the aircraft and are qualified to Bsc(IEng) level. We are supervisory staff, having up to 20 direct reports at any 1 time and have to oversee their work and certify it. Now do we fall into the heady role of PROFESSIONAL as stated by pilots. Or (as I suspect), do pilots deem themselves to be the only professionals in the Airline.
I dont have a chip on my shoulder about flight crew as I earn more than most of them(perhaps due to my 7-8 years of study!!). What gets me most is that the people that deem themselves to be the most professional seem to act the worst to their work colleagues.
Minor rant!
tested statis:
Where I "live and work," (Canada) the Engineers made the fatal mistake of joining the same Union as the ramp rats.
They have paid an incredible price, ever since!
Here in Canada, the F/A Union (CUPE) has an outstanding court case with the Federal Government for "Work of Equal Value" to Pilots.
It is one twisted, screwed up mind, that would think that getting hired for a job, with ZERO prerequisites, is equal to a Pilot.
So please forgive a little tension toward, "dick-in-the-rear F/A" that figures he is worth the same pay as Pilots.
To a person, the Pilots I know have the highest respect for the Engineers.
Unfortunately, in Canada they are grossly underpaid.
V -Australia Union:
Thanks for the tip on Cargo, I would have never thought of that.
Problem is, having spent 30 years working for a Major Overseas carrier... it is to late.
1st 20 or so were awesome, unfortunately the monkeys are running the zoo these days.
Time To Take It Back!
Trying to be mister nice guy hasn't worked. Give them an inch, they take a mile.
...trust me.
As a Senior Engineer with an International carrier, I have to say that the attitude shown by the pilots(professionals!) to the Cabin-crew(non-professionals!) is not surprising.
Most of my Engineers experience the same attitude from the pilots as has been shown here. We have the final say on an aircraft's technical state. We are fully accountable for the work done on the aircraft and are qualified to Bsc(IEng) level. We are supervisory staff, having up to 20 direct reports at any 1 time and have to oversee their work and certify it. Now do we fall into the heady role of PROFESSIONAL as stated by pilots. Or (as I suspect), do pilots deem themselves to be the only professionals in the Airline.
I dont have a chip on my shoulder about flight crew as I earn more than most of them(perhaps due to my 7-8 years of study!!). What gets me most is that the people that deem themselves to be the most professional seem to act the worst to their work colleagues.
Minor rant!
tested statis:
Where I "live and work," (Canada) the Engineers made the fatal mistake of joining the same Union as the ramp rats.
They have paid an incredible price, ever since!
Here in Canada, the F/A Union (CUPE) has an outstanding court case with the Federal Government for "Work of Equal Value" to Pilots.
It is one twisted, screwed up mind, that would think that getting hired for a job, with ZERO prerequisites, is equal to a Pilot.
So please forgive a little tension toward, "dick-in-the-rear F/A" that figures he is worth the same pay as Pilots.
To a person, the Pilots I know have the highest respect for the Engineers.
Unfortunately, in Canada they are grossly underpaid.
V -Australia Union:
Thanks for the tip on Cargo, I would have never thought of that.
Problem is, having spent 30 years working for a Major Overseas carrier... it is to late.
1st 20 or so were awesome, unfortunately the monkeys are running the zoo these days.
Time To Take It Back!
Trying to be mister nice guy hasn't worked. Give them an inch, they take a mile.
...trust me.
Last edited by Johnny767; 19th Oct 2008 at 04:52.
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Also, whilst I have never drunk $100 bottles of wine, especially when a good cold beer is available, it has been my experience over the last 22 years that many, although not all by a long way, of the CC have deep pockets and short arms when it comes to getting the round in.
We have the final say on an aircraft's technical state.
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767, from Vancouver
What a loser or as we say in Australia, a wank-r. You're a dinosaur pal and the sooner aviation is rid of clowns like you the better for pax, fellow flight crew and cc and lastly SAFETY, I can imagine your attitude to CRM. Don't you watch the DVDs where the Cpt won't listen........f-ck I'd love to be doing my security/self defence course with you.
What a goose
What a goose
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different roles, different contracts
Gee wobbly,
looks like your missing the point. for all your p-ssing and moaning you aint changing a thing other than proving how much a bunch of a-seholes SOME tech crew can be. i don't mind people who do a different job that requires more training and qualifications getting paid a lot more, I do take exception when the same f-ckwit thinks he better than anyone else. if you want a collective agreement all they're offering at the moment is a joint one. You may have to be the one who gets over it.
and yeah I'm a kid and your the grown up, what an ignoramus u are Pilots like you give cabbies a bad name.
looks like your missing the point. for all your p-ssing and moaning you aint changing a thing other than proving how much a bunch of a-seholes SOME tech crew can be. i don't mind people who do a different job that requires more training and qualifications getting paid a lot more, I do take exception when the same f-ckwit thinks he better than anyone else. if you want a collective agreement all they're offering at the moment is a joint one. You may have to be the one who gets over it.
and yeah I'm a kid and your the grown up, what an ignoramus u are Pilots like you give cabbies a bad name.
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cal777,
Once again the purile rantings of a child do nothing to get your point across. In fact the contents of your posts provide no points whatsoever except to show that you have a well balanced 'chip on both shoulders' approach to your colleagues.
Do you feel that, during a possibly highly complex malfunction, after you have secured the cabin and prepared for a possible emergency landing you are working at the same level as the flight crew? Or possibly the engineers who could be assisting the flight crew over the radio? Why is it that Flight Crew, as well as completing their own bi annual flight simulator checks, line checks, OPC checks and medicals, still complete the same Safety Equipment Procedures the Cabin Crew have to complete annually?
The role of the cabin crew, as stated by the JAA and the CAA is that one is required for every 50 pax to assist in the expeditious and safe evacuation of the cabin in an emergency and to report any disruption to the Captain. All the other roles on board are fluff, as required by the company. All of the CC I fly with are extremely good at their job and very competent. I enjoy an extremely good working relationship with the Cabin Crew based upon mutual respect for each others job. There are, unfortunately, a minute amount who will think we deserve equal footing. You seem to be one of them wanting the same as flight crew without the need to put in the years of hard work and study required, the annual clutch of checks or the innate responsibility inherent with flying hundreds of passengers around the sky safely and expeditiously.
If you have relevant, factual information to bring to the debate then please post it. If all you can do is show how prejudiced, childish and venomous you are then you are doing all of your colleagues worldwide a serious dis-favor.
Waiting for the next post of contrived wisdom.
ps. Swearing is the preserve of the weak minded.
Also CRM doesn't mean we are all cuddly and equal and I have to ask pretty please for everything, it means effective communication leading to the best use of available crew resources.
Oh, I forgot to add, if this is to be an even debate then please, let the Cabin Crew inform us as to why they think they deserve parity in T's & C's. What makes the cabin crew fraternity believe they should have a level playing field. Should make the debate interesting!
Once again the purile rantings of a child do nothing to get your point across. In fact the contents of your posts provide no points whatsoever except to show that you have a well balanced 'chip on both shoulders' approach to your colleagues.
Do you feel that, during a possibly highly complex malfunction, after you have secured the cabin and prepared for a possible emergency landing you are working at the same level as the flight crew? Or possibly the engineers who could be assisting the flight crew over the radio? Why is it that Flight Crew, as well as completing their own bi annual flight simulator checks, line checks, OPC checks and medicals, still complete the same Safety Equipment Procedures the Cabin Crew have to complete annually?
The role of the cabin crew, as stated by the JAA and the CAA is that one is required for every 50 pax to assist in the expeditious and safe evacuation of the cabin in an emergency and to report any disruption to the Captain. All the other roles on board are fluff, as required by the company. All of the CC I fly with are extremely good at their job and very competent. I enjoy an extremely good working relationship with the Cabin Crew based upon mutual respect for each others job. There are, unfortunately, a minute amount who will think we deserve equal footing. You seem to be one of them wanting the same as flight crew without the need to put in the years of hard work and study required, the annual clutch of checks or the innate responsibility inherent with flying hundreds of passengers around the sky safely and expeditiously.
If you have relevant, factual information to bring to the debate then please post it. If all you can do is show how prejudiced, childish and venomous you are then you are doing all of your colleagues worldwide a serious dis-favor.
Waiting for the next post of contrived wisdom.
ps. Swearing is the preserve of the weak minded.
Also CRM doesn't mean we are all cuddly and equal and I have to ask pretty please for everything, it means effective communication leading to the best use of available crew resources.
Oh, I forgot to add, if this is to be an even debate then please, let the Cabin Crew inform us as to why they think they deserve parity in T's & C's. What makes the cabin crew fraternity believe they should have a level playing field. Should make the debate interesting!
Last edited by wobble2plank; 19th Oct 2008 at 15:29.
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Jonny767
Don't worry, I too would not want to be on the same contract as the CC. But I also would not want my contract merged with anyones contract.
My main point is that the Flight Deck dont really seem to make any effort in understanding anybody else's job, but expect(demand) that EVERYBODY knows just how hard theirs is. I have been referred to as many things by flight deck and so have my staff(oily rag/if I wanted a real job in the airline I should have tried harder in school etc). How many Flight deck have bothered to find out about the qualifications reqd to sign out an Aircraft, about the diff between a Mechanic/Technician/Engineer??. I would want to know if I was going to accecpt somebodies word on the state of my aircraft!
I have many close Flight deck friends ( the more mature kind !) and they too are shocked at their colleagues actions and attitudes.
Just look back through this thread and view the comments about the CC and tell me that they are made by people who are mature ,responsible and Professional. The comments made are about people that work in the same Airline as these people, that cannot be viewed as the correct attitude towards fellow staff, even if you view their role as minor.
The main thing I seem to have a problem with is some of the FD attitude- Maybe I have just met a bad lot, If so then I stand corrected. But I may need some convincing!
Oh Yes- and when It comes to fixing an aircraft-only a type rated Licensed Engineer can deem the Aircraft Airworthy and sign the Tech Log to state that. Sorry -have to hold up our end!!
Don't worry, I too would not want to be on the same contract as the CC. But I also would not want my contract merged with anyones contract.
My main point is that the Flight Deck dont really seem to make any effort in understanding anybody else's job, but expect(demand) that EVERYBODY knows just how hard theirs is. I have been referred to as many things by flight deck and so have my staff(oily rag/if I wanted a real job in the airline I should have tried harder in school etc). How many Flight deck have bothered to find out about the qualifications reqd to sign out an Aircraft, about the diff between a Mechanic/Technician/Engineer??. I would want to know if I was going to accecpt somebodies word on the state of my aircraft!
I have many close Flight deck friends ( the more mature kind !) and they too are shocked at their colleagues actions and attitudes.
Just look back through this thread and view the comments about the CC and tell me that they are made by people who are mature ,responsible and Professional. The comments made are about people that work in the same Airline as these people, that cannot be viewed as the correct attitude towards fellow staff, even if you view their role as minor.
The main thing I seem to have a problem with is some of the FD attitude- Maybe I have just met a bad lot, If so then I stand corrected. But I may need some convincing!
Oh Yes- and when It comes to fixing an aircraft-only a type rated Licensed Engineer can deem the Aircraft Airworthy and sign the Tech Log to state that. Sorry -have to hold up our end!!
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more puerile rantings for wobbly
Gee you go on........... "Working at the same level" I'm not sure what you mean by working.
If you mean, work n 1. employment, effort for which one is paid money. 2. task. 3. toil. 6. labour. 7. exert oneself. 8. be employed........than yes I do believe we are working at the same level.
Nowhere has anyone including myself ever made any inference that we do the same type of work, we might infer that we work as hard as you at what we do, but never have we said the same type.
That's why you receive considerably larger remuneration from a wages perspective, because to get the job you needed x amount of training, flying hours, annual medicals and all the other things that are mentioned.
So feel free to jump down from that soapbox!
I and other cc take exception that you feel superior as a human being purely because of what job you do in our common workplace. You comment on your good working relationship with cc and it's only the minute few "who will think we deserve equal footing "
Equal footing in what???
It's quite easy to say, as I already have how I enjoy a good working relationship with the majority of Tech Crew I've worked with, it's only the minute few who belong in different era who think they are better and deserve better conditions. I'll say it again. You do receive recognition for your more challenging and more qualified position/job/work/task/career.........it's called your wages.........
anything apart from that
( besides perhaps, rest periods and other things in the workplace that are germane to what you do e.g to keep current ie study allowances)
is all about a grab for prestige and privilege, so, sorry mate.
Here's something I'll put to you, would you object to daily breath testing before you get behind the "wheel"?
I'd feel a whole lot safer....and if you don't believe there are pilots somewhere in commercial aviation on a daily basis over the legal limit (even to drive a car) then you are extremely naive or a fool.......I'll suspend my judgment.
2 more things.....
Are you employed by VAustralia?
re your comment, "swearing is the preserve........
you really come across as someone intelligent, but those who use fancy words and high browed perception, well you just come across as stuck up a-seholes who think they're better than the dumb plebs in the back of the plane.............
hmmmmmmm, common thread there with pilots aint it......oops sorry, isn't it
If you mean, work n 1. employment, effort for which one is paid money. 2. task. 3. toil. 6. labour. 7. exert oneself. 8. be employed........than yes I do believe we are working at the same level.
Nowhere has anyone including myself ever made any inference that we do the same type of work, we might infer that we work as hard as you at what we do, but never have we said the same type.
That's why you receive considerably larger remuneration from a wages perspective, because to get the job you needed x amount of training, flying hours, annual medicals and all the other things that are mentioned.
So feel free to jump down from that soapbox!
I and other cc take exception that you feel superior as a human being purely because of what job you do in our common workplace. You comment on your good working relationship with cc and it's only the minute few "who will think we deserve equal footing "
Equal footing in what???
It's quite easy to say, as I already have how I enjoy a good working relationship with the majority of Tech Crew I've worked with, it's only the minute few who belong in different era who think they are better and deserve better conditions. I'll say it again. You do receive recognition for your more challenging and more qualified position/job/work/task/career.........it's called your wages.........
anything apart from that
( besides perhaps, rest periods and other things in the workplace that are germane to what you do e.g to keep current ie study allowances)
is all about a grab for prestige and privilege, so, sorry mate.
Here's something I'll put to you, would you object to daily breath testing before you get behind the "wheel"?
I'd feel a whole lot safer....and if you don't believe there are pilots somewhere in commercial aviation on a daily basis over the legal limit (even to drive a car) then you are extremely naive or a fool.......I'll suspend my judgment.
2 more things.....
Are you employed by VAustralia?
re your comment, "swearing is the preserve........
you really come across as someone intelligent, but those who use fancy words and high browed perception, well you just come across as stuck up a-seholes who think they're better than the dumb plebs in the back of the plane.............
hmmmmmmm, common thread there with pilots aint it......oops sorry, isn't it
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Cal777,
Fabulous, that made me laugh at least.
Wages, terms and conditions all come from responsibility. I never made the point about working hard, once again you dragged up your own mud to sling, my point was purely at what level mentally and professionally we were working. My bin men work hard removing the bins and I am sure they are 'working', to use your terminology, very hard but I don't see any reason to be on the same contract.
The safe conduct of a flight is the preserve delegated by the company to the Captain and through him/her to the First Officer. Working for the Captain is the Senior Cabin Crew Member who is responsible TO THE CAPTAIN for the cabin.
Management have terms and conditions that befit their role within companies, the higher the role the greater the responsibility/risk and hence the better the 'package'. The same works for us in charge of the aircraft, crew and passengers.
I would whole heartedly agree that a well planned, briefed and conducted flight carries, for me personally, a low workload. It is the 'insurance' that is the vital part here, I earn my stripes when things don't go to plan, the weather isn't playing fair or systems that Airbus state 'can never go wrong in that way' go wrong in that way i.e. QANTAS A330 unserviceable ADIRU units feeding into the elevator/ Boeing 777 engine failure/ A319 total electrical failure etc.. That is when we in the front earn our T's & C's and, if we do it well, you in the back don't even notice. Wages are fees for services provided, conditions are there to entice the best people into the job. One goes hand in hand with the other and all top management jobs come with a package including both.
I fail even to see what your 'soap box' is? You still haven't seen fit to explain under what circumstances you feel we require the same contracts?
As to breath testing, yes I am for it, I have been breath tested down route and don't see, as a responsible adult, anything against it. However, if we are to see breath testing it must be for the WHOLE CREW, as your primary purpose is for the evacuation of the pax in and emergency, nothing else. That is the 'responsibility' that dictates your T's & C's. Big one isn't it.
To sum up, I don't consider myself better than most of the hard working, courteous, diligent people working down the back. I think they do a fantastic job. I just do not feel that we should degrade our position as a professional body by accepting common contracts that benefit no one but the companies that force them onto the work force. The cabin crew, usually the union reps with the loudest voices, that spout rubbish from a font of ill informed knowledge however, I will let you figure that one out.
Sorry I don't do l33t speak to help you with the long words.
(At least it helps to pass a rainy afternoon )
Fabulous, that made me laugh at least.
Wages, terms and conditions all come from responsibility. I never made the point about working hard, once again you dragged up your own mud to sling, my point was purely at what level mentally and professionally we were working. My bin men work hard removing the bins and I am sure they are 'working', to use your terminology, very hard but I don't see any reason to be on the same contract.
The safe conduct of a flight is the preserve delegated by the company to the Captain and through him/her to the First Officer. Working for the Captain is the Senior Cabin Crew Member who is responsible TO THE CAPTAIN for the cabin.
Management have terms and conditions that befit their role within companies, the higher the role the greater the responsibility/risk and hence the better the 'package'. The same works for us in charge of the aircraft, crew and passengers.
I would whole heartedly agree that a well planned, briefed and conducted flight carries, for me personally, a low workload. It is the 'insurance' that is the vital part here, I earn my stripes when things don't go to plan, the weather isn't playing fair or systems that Airbus state 'can never go wrong in that way' go wrong in that way i.e. QANTAS A330 unserviceable ADIRU units feeding into the elevator/ Boeing 777 engine failure/ A319 total electrical failure etc.. That is when we in the front earn our T's & C's and, if we do it well, you in the back don't even notice. Wages are fees for services provided, conditions are there to entice the best people into the job. One goes hand in hand with the other and all top management jobs come with a package including both.
I fail even to see what your 'soap box' is? You still haven't seen fit to explain under what circumstances you feel we require the same contracts?
As to breath testing, yes I am for it, I have been breath tested down route and don't see, as a responsible adult, anything against it. However, if we are to see breath testing it must be for the WHOLE CREW, as your primary purpose is for the evacuation of the pax in and emergency, nothing else. That is the 'responsibility' that dictates your T's & C's. Big one isn't it.
To sum up, I don't consider myself better than most of the hard working, courteous, diligent people working down the back. I think they do a fantastic job. I just do not feel that we should degrade our position as a professional body by accepting common contracts that benefit no one but the companies that force them onto the work force. The cabin crew, usually the union reps with the loudest voices, that spout rubbish from a font of ill informed knowledge however, I will let you figure that one out.
Sorry I don't do l33t speak to help you with the long words.
(At least it helps to pass a rainy afternoon
)
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: England
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Professionalism is an attitude, not a job title.
The issue here is nothing to do with who is higher up the totem poll, but rather the demographic of the workforce. Quite simply, pilots generally stay around to retirement, Cabin Crew generally don't (yes, of course some do, but CC does hold a large number of people who do it only for a part - and generally the first part - of a career).
Consequently whats important in a set of T & Cs is totally different, and it spells disaster for the minority group.
A small example, lets say the issue is medical insurance, whether it is or is not to be part of the standard employment package. For a working group with average age in their mid twenties, a sizeable majority won't see this is critically important. For a group with average age 40 something its a big deal.
pb
The issue here is nothing to do with who is higher up the totem poll, but rather the demographic of the workforce. Quite simply, pilots generally stay around to retirement, Cabin Crew generally don't (yes, of course some do, but CC does hold a large number of people who do it only for a part - and generally the first part - of a career).
Consequently whats important in a set of T & Cs is totally different, and it spells disaster for the minority group.
A small example, lets say the issue is medical insurance, whether it is or is not to be part of the standard employment package. For a working group with average age in their mid twenties, a sizeable majority won't see this is critically important. For a group with average age 40 something its a big deal.
pb