KLM
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 254
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Your gripe is more with the KLM uk situation, I already stated I didn't agree with that, but aside from that, how are KLM's hiring practices any different from the other MEFC. ( besides BA, but I'm pretty sure you would never pass their interview process if you couldn't convers fluently in Englisch, exluding many Italian, french, spanish pilots, btw, how many pilots from those countries are working for BA)
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: europe
Posts: 359
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I do not have a gripe, just want the FACTS to be known.
Many non british pilots from Europe work for BA, in fact many Dutch nationals work there ......... reason? not trained by the KLS NLS or Dutch military therefore sub standard to KLM and cannot apply to their own flag carrier
Many non british pilots from Europe work for BA, in fact many Dutch nationals work there ......... reason? not trained by the KLS NLS or Dutch military therefore sub standard to KLM and cannot apply to their own flag carrier
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 254
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I didn't realise it was a question, but KLM probably has not hired any non citizen. This has to do with the fact that they take their newhires from the KFA. Sofar they have been able to keep up with the demand. However to go to the KFA you don't have to be dutch...The school is open for every one.
Once again, I ask you if you find the hiring pratices of the other MEFC less discriminatory when it comes to the language requirments???
Once again, I ask you if you find the hiring pratices of the other MEFC less discriminatory when it comes to the language requirments???
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Belgium
Age: 39
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The big difference is that, while I'm fluent in Dutch and have VG English and French, I (training at SFA) can apply as an ab-initio and have a fair chance with AF, BA, LH (if I learned german), but never with the KLM, because no KLS/NLS/KLu training, no interview. The point is that you don't even get a chance to apply. With LH or AF, you learn the language and can apply with any JAA license, fair chance for everyone. With KLM, even though my training is pretty much comparable (KLS even trains its students with us (SATC) in Phoenix in the same programme), I don't have a fair chance, in fact I don't have any chance.
edit: and I think learning a language of a certain flag carrier is no big deal compared to just having no chance because of your FTO choice. It doesnt seem abnormal to me that, for Air France, you have to speak French.
edit: and I think learning a language of a certain flag carrier is no big deal compared to just having no chance because of your FTO choice. It doesnt seem abnormal to me that, for Air France, you have to speak French.
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: europe
Posts: 359
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
quote flyburg:
But to suggest that the other major European flag carriers are more fair is RIDICULOUS. I think KLM is the ONLY carrier that hires non dutch nationals that are not fluent in the dutch language. LH, AF, IB, AZ etc, You will not get hired there unless you are fluent in the national language (please, give me one example to prove me wrong) most of those airlines have the entire selection proces in the national language. KLM only requires that you learn the dutch language within a given period, witch has never been enforced. NO pilot has EVER been fired for not knowing the language!!!!!!!
Please, give me one example of LH, AF, IB or AZ where a pilot got hired that wasn't fluent in the national language ( I won't mention BA because everybody is supposed to be fluent in english).
My point was that you are WRONG when it comes to language, you are WRONG because KLM has not hired non Dutch nationals for over 5 years (with the few exceptions of the ex uk pilots), the other flag carriers are not right either, but dont protect KLM on the grounds that you did because that ground does not exist! KLM is worse than these other airlines (and they are not good!) because of recruiting from sole dutch establishments. This is against european law! if you are qualified for the position (i e hold a JAA state license) then you MUST be able to apply. The way around the EU law is to make the language (B1 Dutch B1 French, German etc) an entry requirement, IB AF LH etc to not break the law, KLM does.
But to suggest that the other major European flag carriers are more fair is RIDICULOUS. I think KLM is the ONLY carrier that hires non dutch nationals that are not fluent in the dutch language. LH, AF, IB, AZ etc, You will not get hired there unless you are fluent in the national language (please, give me one example to prove me wrong) most of those airlines have the entire selection proces in the national language. KLM only requires that you learn the dutch language within a given period, witch has never been enforced. NO pilot has EVER been fired for not knowing the language!!!!!!!
Please, give me one example of LH, AF, IB or AZ where a pilot got hired that wasn't fluent in the national language ( I won't mention BA because everybody is supposed to be fluent in english).
My point was that you are WRONG when it comes to language, you are WRONG because KLM has not hired non Dutch nationals for over 5 years (with the few exceptions of the ex uk pilots), the other flag carriers are not right either, but dont protect KLM on the grounds that you did because that ground does not exist! KLM is worse than these other airlines (and they are not good!) because of recruiting from sole dutch establishments. This is against european law! if you are qualified for the position (i e hold a JAA state license) then you MUST be able to apply. The way around the EU law is to make the language (B1 Dutch B1 French, German etc) an entry requirement, IB AF LH etc to not break the law, KLM does.
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 254
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Okay mister Blue pilot,
You have edited your post #21. You state that now the training must be of dutch origin....................pfew that's the first I heard of that.
This board is great for promulgating information, I just can't keep up witch you. You win.. I think... and I now support a hiring ban for KLM.
They are clearly the evil of the airline industrie...
I declare..al dutch piloits are evil (evil I say)
All dutch pilots are out to screw former UK pilots
all dutch pilots are out to screw non language speaking pilots
All other major European flag carriers are excamples of how to treat non national speaking earopean citizens.
I'm going to bed,
slaap lekker
You have edited your post #21. You state that now the training must be of dutch origin....................pfew that's the first I heard of that.
This board is great for promulgating information, I just can't keep up witch you. You win.. I think... and I now support a hiring ban for KLM.
They are clearly the evil of the airline industrie...
I declare..al dutch piloits are evil (evil I say)
All dutch pilots are out to screw former UK pilots
all dutch pilots are out to screw non language speaking pilots
All other major European flag carriers are excamples of how to treat non national speaking earopean citizens.
I'm going to bed,
slaap lekker
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: United States of Europe
Age: 40
Posts: 502
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I tend to agree with bluepilot.
I am 25 years old. 2500+ hours on medium jets. Born and raised in the Netherlands.
I can apply at any European flagcarrier provided I speak the language. However I can't apply to KLM because I didn't go to the right flighschool six years ago.
Try to explain to people why BA, LH or AF would have me but KLM won't!
I am not desperate to work in Holland but if I ever would be, KLM would be the only real option. Since I am excluded from applying at KLM I basically had to kiss Holland goodbye.
I am 25 years old. 2500+ hours on medium jets. Born and raised in the Netherlands.
I can apply at any European flagcarrier provided I speak the language. However I can't apply to KLM because I didn't go to the right flighschool six years ago.
Try to explain to people why BA, LH or AF would have me but KLM won't!
I am not desperate to work in Holland but if I ever would be, KLM would be the only real option. Since I am excluded from applying at KLM I basically had to kiss Holland goodbye.
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: United States of Europe
Age: 40
Posts: 502
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Good question. It was too expensive and at that time KLM wasn't hiring. Also historically 500h multi-engine would make you eligible to apply.
If I would have known I might have considered it.
If I would have known I might have considered it.
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 121
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Open Des,
You can apply to KLM, they just won't give you an interview at the moment, because they have enough students leaving their own flight academy. As little as two years ago KLM did hire pilots such as yourself as direct entry captains on the F50, which could have gotten you onto the mainline senority list. You kissing Holland goodbye is your own choice, Martinair and Transavia are both fine companies.
You and I might not agree with KLM's preference for ab initio pilots from KLS, but nothing here has convinced me that it is illegal.
You can apply to KLM, they just won't give you an interview at the moment, because they have enough students leaving their own flight academy. As little as two years ago KLM did hire pilots such as yourself as direct entry captains on the F50, which could have gotten you onto the mainline senority list. You kissing Holland goodbye is your own choice, Martinair and Transavia are both fine companies.
You and I might not agree with KLM's preference for ab initio pilots from KLS, but nothing here has convinced me that it is illegal.
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: europe
Posts: 359
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
you are correct Longhaul, direct entry captains were employed a few years ago BUT they had to have been trained by KLS or NLS . Many of those employed came from the likes of Denim Air and were trained by the NLS.
What is illegal is that if you have a vacancy for a job under european law you MUST accept applications from qualified candidates from within the EU. You can specify a language requirement (as LH AF and IB do).
Over the past five years the only candidates who can apply to KLM are those trained by KLS NLS or the Dutch military.
. Many of those employed came from the likes of Denim Air and were trained by the NLS.What is illegal is that if you have a vacancy for a job under european law you MUST accept applications from qualified candidates from within the EU. You can specify a language requirement (as LH AF and IB do).
Over the past five years the only candidates who can apply to KLM are those trained by KLS NLS or the Dutch military.
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Brussels
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you look at the KFA website under "minimum requirements" it already states that you have to be fluent in the Dutch language. It is funny that the website of KFA is only available in Dutch without the option to read it in English (KLM FLIGHT ACADEMY) So basically, KLM expects you to learn Dutch before you can even read their training website, very clever!!!! If you go to for example Lufthansa Flight Training the website is in English with the option to read it in German (www.lufthansa-flight-training.com).
I am Dutch, non KFA trained and one of many foreign nationalities flying for BA........and HAPPY. It is nice to have colleagues with a different background like ab-initios, regionals, low cost and military. No need to be painted in the colours of the Union Flag!!
I am Dutch, non KFA trained and one of many foreign nationalities flying for BA........and HAPPY. It is nice to have colleagues with a different background like ab-initios, regionals, low cost and military. No need to be painted in the colours of the Union Flag!!
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: France
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
KLM
Hello,
Almost 3 years later, does any of you have some more information regarding KLM recruitment process ?
Considering the fact that I have both french and dutch passports, I'm wondering if I'll be able to apply for KLM in the coming months (years?) given that I don't come from KLS nor NLS but from a french flight academy ?
Thx
Almost 3 years later, does any of you have some more information regarding KLM recruitment process ?
Considering the fact that I have both french and dutch passports, I'm wondering if I'll be able to apply for KLM in the coming months (years?) given that I don't come from KLS nor NLS but from a french flight academy ?
Thx
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: 14 days away 14 at home
Posts: 699
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Assuming you would graduate from the KLS today you would have 350+ graduates in front of you in the holding pool. Only after that has cleared other schools might be considered... 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Wor Yerm
Age: 68
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There also might be a few Martinair guys standing in your way as well. And then there's the issue of production ratios with AF. Will the addition of the Martinair airframes to KLM's fleet count as an expansion or are they already included in KLM's allotted quota? If they count as an expansion, KLM won't be expanding for a while yet.
CA - I wouldn't count on being recruited by KLM but stranger things have happened. Just ask the Dutch kids who went to OATS. As ever, it's a supply and demand issue. But one thing is for sure, once you are in is probably one of the best places to be. I know, I can't go any further into the house than the kitchen.
PM
CA - I wouldn't count on being recruited by KLM but stranger things have happened. Just ask the Dutch kids who went to OATS. As ever, it's a supply and demand issue. But one thing is for sure, once you are in is probably one of the best places to be. I know, I can't go any further into the house than the kitchen.
PM
