E190 Captain vs 767 FO
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E190 Captain vs 767 FO
Hello guys! I'm here to hear your thoughts about 2 career paths that I can take in the near future. I've been flying for an airline overseas, I've flown the Dc-9-32, MD-80 and right now the E190, all of them as a first officer. I'm close to an upgrade (E190 captain), at the most, in a year.
But now I've been offered a position as a 767 FO for a cargo airline, long haul routes, flying to the US, better pay but an upgrade will take at least 5 to 6 years.
So please if anyone has any opinions on this, they are very welcome
But now I've been offered a position as a 767 FO for a cargo airline, long haul routes, flying to the US, better pay but an upgrade will take at least 5 to 6 years.
So please if anyone has any opinions on this, they are very welcome
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standard progression means you should go on the 767 (assuming you have no wife or kids to think about whilst away on a long haul trip). 5 to 6 years is not a long time. but also know that the E190 is a new and growing type as opposed to the 767 which is kind of, some might say, on its way out. If I were you .. E190 (medium jet command).
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Opinion of old timer...
Hola Bluedog...
xxx
I fly for airlines since 1969, and about to retire in 3 months. Been through many airlines, and bankruptcies, and layoffs...
xxx
I would recommend you to seek a captain position first, rather than a transition to a bigger airplane as first officer, provided of course that a captain upgrade is in an "airliner", not some toy "commuter" airplane with an airline name painted on the fuselage. To my opinion, the E-190 is a perfect aircraft for a first command in airline service. The position would qualify you for the E-170 to E-195... and many of these airplanes are to be delivered.
xxx
In my career, I had to start as F/E (727 then 707), and followed the advice of going for F/O upgrade first (which I got on 727, then 707), and then to captain upgrade as soon as possible, which I quickly obtained on 727... I had no interest in being a F/O on "wide body" - as a F/O 747 position had been offered to me - instead, I took the captain position on 727...
xxx
Once I got the 4 stripes and the LH seat on 727... I remained captain from then on, going to the 707, then the DC8, then the 747... The old saying says "once a captain, always a captain", and never had any problem to obtain other captain assignments. To get positions on other airplanes in your career, coming out of the E-190, I do not know what would be next for you, but you very well could get a command on say, a B-787, or a A-340...Think that the world economy is not doing the best right now, especially you mentioning USA... being a captain will help you to secure continued employment.
xxx
If you look for extra income, I would suggest, you being a captain, thereafter, to seek instructor positions on the type aircraft you fly, this in classrooms, simulators, or line training. That in turn, refines your flying abilities through constant training practice or demonstrations, knowledge of the airplane, and gives you extra privileges, such choice of duty rosters... etc.
xxx
All the best - So, "captain" is your first priority - thereafter, the size of the paycheck...
Happy contrails
xxx
I fly for airlines since 1969, and about to retire in 3 months. Been through many airlines, and bankruptcies, and layoffs...
xxx
I would recommend you to seek a captain position first, rather than a transition to a bigger airplane as first officer, provided of course that a captain upgrade is in an "airliner", not some toy "commuter" airplane with an airline name painted on the fuselage. To my opinion, the E-190 is a perfect aircraft for a first command in airline service. The position would qualify you for the E-170 to E-195... and many of these airplanes are to be delivered.
xxx
In my career, I had to start as F/E (727 then 707), and followed the advice of going for F/O upgrade first (which I got on 727, then 707), and then to captain upgrade as soon as possible, which I quickly obtained on 727... I had no interest in being a F/O on "wide body" - as a F/O 747 position had been offered to me - instead, I took the captain position on 727...
xxx
Once I got the 4 stripes and the LH seat on 727... I remained captain from then on, going to the 707, then the DC8, then the 747... The old saying says "once a captain, always a captain", and never had any problem to obtain other captain assignments. To get positions on other airplanes in your career, coming out of the E-190, I do not know what would be next for you, but you very well could get a command on say, a B-787, or a A-340...Think that the world economy is not doing the best right now, especially you mentioning USA... being a captain will help you to secure continued employment.
xxx
If you look for extra income, I would suggest, you being a captain, thereafter, to seek instructor positions on the type aircraft you fly, this in classrooms, simulators, or line training. That in turn, refines your flying abilities through constant training practice or demonstrations, knowledge of the airplane, and gives you extra privileges, such choice of duty rosters... etc.
xxx
All the best - So, "captain" is your first priority - thereafter, the size of the paycheck...
Happy contrails
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Bluedog,
Couldn't agree more with BelArgUSA, definitely go for the command option it is the sensible route to go.
Still it's your decision for whichever route you go down.
Captain on the E190 will lead to captain........who knows!
M.
Couldn't agree more with BelArgUSA, definitely go for the command option it is the sensible route to go.
Still it's your decision for whichever route you go down.
Captain on the E190 will lead to captain........who knows!
M.
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Go for the Command must better for the future. IN 5-6 years you have 4000 hours command instead of 4000 hours 767. And maybe the 767 operator will go bankrupt or who knows what will happen. Take the command. Good luck with your choice
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decisions...
....an old flight chief told me once, "you only know you chose the right airline to work for, the day you pick up your first retirement cheque". If the company you currently work for is stable and you are high enough up on the seniority list to feel you have the chance of an upgrade soon, I would suggest staying put, at least until the economic downturn passes. Good luck with whichever decision you make
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I have been in the business a long time and my advice is go for the command position. An airline can get a F/O straight out of flying school but to be a captain requires experience, the aircraft type is of secondary importance. Thats only my thoughts.
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Okay, so far... However what is the long term planning? A lot of guys feel stuck in single aisle aircraft but wish to fly long range. They report to have a hard time getting long range commands...
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All these ole guys are right.
They ask the right questions:
"Which job offers best career?"
"What job offers best pay?"
"What aircraft suits you more?"
But the most important question you have to ask yourself is:
"Which job offers you the best life style?"
Dani
They ask the right questions:
"Which job offers best career?"
"What job offers best pay?"
"What aircraft suits you more?"
But the most important question you have to ask yourself is:
"Which job offers you the best life style?"
Dani
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5 months ago I was in a similar situation and came to pprune for advice. I was given the oportunity to upgrade on the CRJ and also to go elsewhere as a 757 FO. In my case the CRJ upgrade and 757 new hire class where within 2 days of eachother. The CRJ paid WAY better than the 757 as well. I chose the upgrade and was advised by all to do so. Im glad I did! Im building valuable PIC time and have a very nice paycheck with a bright future.
In your case you say that you might upgrade in a year on the E190, but the 767 FO pay is better than the E190 CA pay. This is a much tougher decison... In aviaton you can not guarantee whats going to happen next year meaning that upgrade may not happen... Also the 767 money sounds tempting... Do your homework on each company and figure out what your ultimate lifestyle and career goals are.
Sorry I cannot offer better advice, but if the upgrade was guaranteed now, I'd do the E190 gig (provided it fit into your lifes master plan)!
In your case you say that you might upgrade in a year on the E190, but the 767 FO pay is better than the E190 CA pay. This is a much tougher decison... In aviaton you can not guarantee whats going to happen next year meaning that upgrade may not happen... Also the 767 money sounds tempting... Do your homework on each company and figure out what your ultimate lifestyle and career goals are.
Sorry I cannot offer better advice, but if the upgrade was guaranteed now, I'd do the E190 gig (provided it fit into your lifes master plan)!
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Your Choice.
Bluedog190,
I'm going to dissagree with the majority of the guy's here and say go for the 767.
The reason why I dissagree is your command WILL COME eventually maybe sooner than you think and when it does come it will be on the 76.
Also consider this you're transitioning to widebody one more tick in the box.
If it doesn't work out you can always go back to the E-190 As a captain ( Remember the type is growing in numbers you will fit in nicely as a direct entry command from a Widebody with no training required).
One of the best Captains I ever flew with told me " If your'e a good first Officer You'll Make a Good Captain" I'm now a Captain I agree with that. This guy was awesome of his 12,000HRS TT on 737 9,000HRS were as Co-pilot it wasn't his fault there was simply no movement in the company he was in so he just stayed there. But I have to say he was definately super to fly with I learnt alot from him.
As pilot's we don't necessarily plan to be F/O's for our careers unfortunately it does happen I was stuck there once it wasn't my fault it was just the way things happend after finally getting my command and being a Capt for a few years i'm about to go back to being in the right seat for a heavy jet
thats fine with me.
If its a Command you want then you must take the opportunity when it comes.
If it is progression on to a Heavy Widebody Jet then you should take it. Get it on your ticket. NO ONE is gonna hire you as a Direct Entry Capt on a 76 if your'e a Capt on a E-190 in any case.
I think I understand your situation being frustrated with being an F/O for many years with the posibility of finally getting you chance to be Capt well my friend if you want it that bad then you must do it.
As for immediate Career progression good things come to those who wait... My advice is go to the 767.
Your Choice,
Good Luck,
Pete77
I'm going to dissagree with the majority of the guy's here and say go for the 767.
The reason why I dissagree is your command WILL COME eventually maybe sooner than you think and when it does come it will be on the 76.
Also consider this you're transitioning to widebody one more tick in the box.
If it doesn't work out you can always go back to the E-190 As a captain ( Remember the type is growing in numbers you will fit in nicely as a direct entry command from a Widebody with no training required).
One of the best Captains I ever flew with told me " If your'e a good first Officer You'll Make a Good Captain" I'm now a Captain I agree with that. This guy was awesome of his 12,000HRS TT on 737 9,000HRS were as Co-pilot it wasn't his fault there was simply no movement in the company he was in so he just stayed there. But I have to say he was definately super to fly with I learnt alot from him.
As pilot's we don't necessarily plan to be F/O's for our careers unfortunately it does happen I was stuck there once it wasn't my fault it was just the way things happend after finally getting my command and being a Capt for a few years i'm about to go back to being in the right seat for a heavy jet
thats fine with me.
If its a Command you want then you must take the opportunity when it comes.
If it is progression on to a Heavy Widebody Jet then you should take it. Get it on your ticket. NO ONE is gonna hire you as a Direct Entry Capt on a 76 if your'e a Capt on a E-190 in any case.
I think I understand your situation being frustrated with being an F/O for many years with the posibility of finally getting you chance to be Capt well my friend if you want it that bad then you must do it.
As for immediate Career progression good things come to those who wait... My advice is go to the 767.
Your Choice,
Good Luck,
Pete77
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always go for the upgrade; you have a different perspective from the left seat; you have more options afterward; you don't know what will happen in 5 years; you can always find another job with some serious PIC time; it's also a natural progression; good luck
I would have to endorse the option of taking the command first. I had a similar situation back in 1987. I chose the single aisle command over widebody FO and, despite being through company bankruptcies, have kept have kept my left seat ever since, flying both the B744 and the A340.
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Actually Bluedog only assumes that he'll get a command within a year... What if his company decides to stop further expansion and postpones introducing new aircraft to the fleet or even cutback services (which is not so unlikely in the face of an economic downturn and rising fuel costs), his upgrade course may well be canceled and he'll be an f/o for way more than a year. In the same time, he could have gained hours and seniority on a 767 and be living the longhaul lifestyle (if thats what he wants). Of course it could all be different...
No matter how you take it, it's a gamble... So do you really want a change in lifestyle and scenery? Then go for the 767... But if you are considering the move only because your new aircraft is bigger and weighing twice as much as your current one, stay where you are and enjoy your privileges as a high seniority f/o and future captain
No matter how you take it, it's a gamble... So do you really want a change in lifestyle and scenery? Then go for the 767... But if you are considering the move only because your new aircraft is bigger and weighing twice as much as your current one, stay where you are and enjoy your privileges as a high seniority f/o and future captain
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How about ATR42 CDR vs 737 FO?
If the original poster doesn't mind, I'd like to 7500 this thread for a bit.
I've got about 5000TT with 3000PIC (2000 on T-props incl LTC hours) I got a job as a 737 FO 2 years ago. Despite healthy expansion at my company and the recommandation of the vast majority of the CDR's I fly with, I have been passed over for command due mostly to political reasons (i.e. guys with better connections have passed me over despite barely meeting the minimum legal requirements for command, and DEC's hired with no jet time).
As this situation will likely continue, I obviously have to make a move. I'm also in the enviable position of having a couple of options. I can go fly an A320 with a promised 6 month time to upgrade, or I can go on an ATR as DEC. Pay is better on the ATR, lifestyle would be about the same. I also have no idea how honest the A320 people are when they promise the upgrade.
So, what would you do?
I've got about 5000TT with 3000PIC (2000 on T-props incl LTC hours) I got a job as a 737 FO 2 years ago. Despite healthy expansion at my company and the recommandation of the vast majority of the CDR's I fly with, I have been passed over for command due mostly to political reasons (i.e. guys with better connections have passed me over despite barely meeting the minimum legal requirements for command, and DEC's hired with no jet time).
As this situation will likely continue, I obviously have to make a move. I'm also in the enviable position of having a couple of options. I can go fly an A320 with a promised 6 month time to upgrade, or I can go on an ATR as DEC. Pay is better on the ATR, lifestyle would be about the same. I also have no idea how honest the A320 people are when they promise the upgrade.
So, what would you do?