Open Skies lifestyle
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: London
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Open Skies lifestyle
Please can any pilots that have joined OS give me an insight into how they are finding their new lives there?
The culture, work patterns eg rosters, load factors, friendliness of management and colleagues. All that good stuff!!
regards
The culture, work patterns eg rosters, load factors, friendliness of management and colleagues. All that good stuff!!
regards
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Europe
Posts: 1,482
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am personally not interested in OS (I probably don't have the quals either) but I wondered about that too. I understand OS intends to operate flights out of major European cities like London, Paris, Brussels, Milan, etc., but how would pilots operate those flights? Are there set pilot bases yet beyond Paris? Would a Paris based crew also fly out of Milan, Amsterdam, etc. or just to-from Paris? How will they shuttle around between cities in Europe?
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: LHR
Posts: 111
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't have any specific knowledge of their work patterns but would imagine (with only 1 route so far) it's 4-6 2-crew TransAtlantic crossings per month with the odd Stand-by duty thrown in for good measure. I hope they don't have BA's abaility to Force Draft (Draft Assign as it's now) on your days off.
Month in, month out I would guess that pilot turn-over will be quite high. From experience of 2-crew long-haul, I can assure anyone that it is very tiring.
Month in, month out I would guess that pilot turn-over will be quite high. From experience of 2-crew long-haul, I can assure anyone that it is very tiring.
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Ask OPS!
Posts: 1,078
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Take all of the worst aspects of BA rostering and multiply them by a factor of 4. That should give you a rough guide! 
I also seem to remember that they can reschedule your holidays and also your operating base at the drop of the management hat.
Don't forget it's a meritocracy so best you get real pally with Dale Moss and his mates.
Yes I do work for BA but I also looked at the OS contract in order to have a balanced view (also in the fear it may be imposed on me in the future). It really doesn't look very good.
Good luck if you go for it though.
I also seem to remember that they can reschedule your holidays and also your operating base at the drop of the management hat.
Don't forget it's a meritocracy so best you get real pally with Dale Moss and his mates.
Yes I do work for BA but I also looked at the OS contract in order to have a balanced view (also in the fear it may be imposed on me in the future). It really doesn't look very good.
Good luck if you go for it though.
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: LHR
Posts: 111
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mr A,
I have no idea what BALPA thinks of Back-2-Back trips like that except to say that at Mainline BA there are a lot of commuters that volutarily bid for Back-2-BAck. That said mainline have a lot of 3 and 4 man crew trips where this kind of flying isn't quite so bad.
Back-2-back bullet JFKs though, IMHO is asking for trouble, wonder what the pax coming back from JFK would think of it if they knew their pilots were on their 3rd sector in 5 days, probably feeling less than 100%
As I said originally, expect a high turn-over of pilots there, your body can only take that kind of punishment for so long!
I have no idea what BALPA thinks of Back-2-Back trips like that except to say that at Mainline BA there are a lot of commuters that volutarily bid for Back-2-BAck. That said mainline have a lot of 3 and 4 man crew trips where this kind of flying isn't quite so bad.
Back-2-back bullet JFKs though, IMHO is asking for trouble, wonder what the pax coming back from JFK would think of it if they knew their pilots were on their 3rd sector in 5 days, probably feeling less than 100%
As I said originally, expect a high turn-over of pilots there, your body can only take that kind of punishment for so long!
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 1,608
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It seems hardly helpful that this thread is dominated by conjecture from mainline pilots rather than useful information from actual OS pilots.
Are there any on PPRuNe I wonder?
Are there any on PPRuNe I wonder?
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: York
Posts: 737
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm afraid I can't see there being any effective BALPA representation at OS for some very considerable time. (Some window dressing perhaps)
It just appears to me that the T&Cs, and indeed the whole employment ethos, are simply not compatible with any Union efforts to drive up costs!
Increased costs will not be tolerated. (with 17 pax on a transatlantic 757, it's making spectacular losses already!) Anyone making waves will see a detrimental effect on their employment.
As has been implied earlier. It is pretty obvious that this 'airline within an airline' has been designed from the very outset, to thrive on a high turnover of staff, and in the medium term to drive down staff costs.
The fact that, in the meantime, it might carry the odd passenger (at huge cost!), is purely coincidental!
Re-Heat, nice try!
The reason OS pilots aren't here is because they are either flying or sleeping!
(Or just don't want to upset Dale!)
It just appears to me that the T&Cs, and indeed the whole employment ethos, are simply not compatible with any Union efforts to drive up costs!
Increased costs will not be tolerated. (with 17 pax on a transatlantic 757, it's making spectacular losses already!) Anyone making waves will see a detrimental effect on their employment.
As has been implied earlier. It is pretty obvious that this 'airline within an airline' has been designed from the very outset, to thrive on a high turnover of staff, and in the medium term to drive down staff costs.
The fact that, in the meantime, it might carry the odd passenger (at huge cost!), is purely coincidental!
Re-Heat, nice try!
The reason OS pilots aren't here is because they are either flying or sleeping!
(Or just don't want to upset Dale!)
Last edited by 4468; 24th Jul 2008 at 09:40.
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: EU
Posts: 104
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thats all very interesting but as has been requested repeatedly does anybody who actually works for them have anything to say on the subject? The Rostering has nothing to do with BA. It's subcontracted out to a charter firm along with various other operation functions. The contract that appears on their website might make those at BA wince but compared to a great many others out there it has it's merits. I notice they have stopped recruiting though.
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: beside daughter
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It makes me wonder if I compare previous posts with the workload of loco and charter pilot during the summer vacation season.
Secondhand info is that since operation has just started out of 1 base presently 2 sector duties,thereafter Off and Stby.
Colleges of l`avion stated great lifestyle but that was prior merger.
Secondhand info is that since operation has just started out of 1 base presently 2 sector duties,thereafter Off and Stby.
Colleges of l`avion stated great lifestyle but that was prior merger.
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 197
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Many Pilots asked publically what life was like at Silverjet and you never saw much / if any comments from their Pilots on pprune. This will probably remain until the shine wears off at OpenSky.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Ireland
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Gentlemen,
This thread has been an interesting read. Forgive me if my question seems a bit strange, as I am a British born Canadian and have spent my career thus far mostly in Canada with the exception of a short stint in the Middle East as well as doing some extended charter work in the UK with a Canadian company under contract to a UK operation.
Having spent most of my career flying under the abysmal Canadian Air Regulations with some of the worse Crew Flight Duty Time regulations in the Western Hemisphere and also having only known non-augmented two pilot crew trans-Atlantic operations; I am curious to know if Open Skies makes use of a program similar to what we have in Canada known as: Controlled Rest in the Flight Deck.
Does the CAA and BA make a provision available to flight crew to get some "on duty" rest while working the type of rosters previous posters have described? Is getting a nap frowned upon in this type of operation or is it generally accepted?
The roster patterns mentioned are very difficult to maintain without there being a degradation in Human Performance.
Personally I appreciate working in the UK under your JAR-OPS for crew duty times and limitations as compared to what we have here in Canada.
Look forward to reading your comments...
David
This thread has been an interesting read. Forgive me if my question seems a bit strange, as I am a British born Canadian and have spent my career thus far mostly in Canada with the exception of a short stint in the Middle East as well as doing some extended charter work in the UK with a Canadian company under contract to a UK operation.
Having spent most of my career flying under the abysmal Canadian Air Regulations with some of the worse Crew Flight Duty Time regulations in the Western Hemisphere and also having only known non-augmented two pilot crew trans-Atlantic operations; I am curious to know if Open Skies makes use of a program similar to what we have in Canada known as: Controlled Rest in the Flight Deck.
Does the CAA and BA make a provision available to flight crew to get some "on duty" rest while working the type of rosters previous posters have described? Is getting a nap frowned upon in this type of operation or is it generally accepted?
The roster patterns mentioned are very difficult to maintain without there being a degradation in Human Performance.
Personally I appreciate working in the UK under your JAR-OPS for crew duty times and limitations as compared to what we have here in Canada.
Look forward to reading your comments...
David
Couldonlyaffordafiver
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: The Twilight Zone near 30W
Posts: 1,934
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I understand OS intends to operate flights out of major European cities like London, Paris, Brussels, Milan, etc.
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: A different hotel to the one crewing told me...
Posts: 212
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
One interesting thought - if the venture failed, the company would be obliged to offer jobs within the group to those in OS. By the backdoor to mainline/Cityflyer...?
Funny thing
, we never got a straight answer from any of the above. Legally, I suspect we would have been given the selection process in an abbreviated form and those that didn't fit the BA profile would have been given the boot and redundancy, but who knows?And please, can we not use this post as an excuse to open the ancient history file by those on either side of the BA/BACX fence with an axe to grind.
oap
PS At the risk of opening a can of worms, was having a beer recently with a guy who has the chance of going to OpenSkies. His view on the bulk of the contract and how it was going to work wasn't that different to the majority (i.e. not BA) of carriers operating 75/767s on long charter routes. Didn't go into vast detail as aviation was in danger of spoiling a fine night out.
