Idiotic JAA
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On the other side of the coin, FAA licence holders might be able to convert to JAA licences more easily if the FAA examination process was a bit more rigorous.
A bizjet friend of mine recently did his FAA theory exams - he said he just bought a CD containing all 700 FAA multiple choice questions, it took just four hours to learn off by heart all the answers, then he took the exam, and passed. He said that as far as he was concerned the FAA licence was worthless as it was so easy to pass the exams.
The JAA exams do not allow you to do this - you actually have to study and understand the material, not just blindly learn by heart the answers to the exam questions.
A bizjet friend of mine recently did his FAA theory exams - he said he just bought a CD containing all 700 FAA multiple choice questions, it took just four hours to learn off by heart all the answers, then he took the exam, and passed. He said that as far as he was concerned the FAA licence was worthless as it was so easy to pass the exams.
The JAA exams do not allow you to do this - you actually have to study and understand the material, not just blindly learn by heart the answers to the exam questions.
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YES
I know Europeans have to deal with the same IDIOTIC system........but what is the purpose......don't be upset with me I am just the messenger.The European JAA system is a joke....just seems everyone is content with it and accept it as the rule. I don' think its many Europeans with work permits in the US sweeping hangar's this days even with the down turn in the airline industry...they maybe don't get rich but they have a job.....
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Rotorknight
Rotorknight applause to you...yes of course we all are a brotherhood as pilots......
an international worldwide recognition would be utopia!.
an international worldwide recognition would be utopia!.
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Check Airman
Check Airman,
Well no interest on my behalf...you can keep your utopia there and think by keeping the bar so high where you make it very unaccommodating for prospering pilots to even pass and become a pilot that the notion you have achieved anything from that else that creating a HOSTILE environment for an elitist club like you think you are part of. This is SILLY and does NOT create a more safe airline industry or aviation community than the USA.
Well no interest on my behalf...you can keep your utopia there and think by keeping the bar so high where you make it very unaccommodating for prospering pilots to even pass and become a pilot that the notion you have achieved anything from that else that creating a HOSTILE environment for an elitist club like you think you are part of. This is SILLY and does NOT create a more safe airline industry or aviation community than the USA.
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standardisation...?
Standardisation is needed in this case where a system has to be implemented in an mixed enviroment where are different languages, cultures and aviation backgrounds, among other things.
Maybe you want to complaint about the High Standards?, it could be high for you, low for others, the important thing is to bring everything up to a level.
Leave the FAA for US and the JAA for the EU, buy fish in the fishmarket and bread in the bakery.... not the other way around...
Will and englishman complain about everybody is driving wrong way on the Highway in the US ? or will he adapt himself to the local system and drive on the RHS of the road?... same thing here... adapt to the local legislation, cultures and system... otherwise you will be swimming against the current...
If your point is about the excess of information in the subjects? Could be (like knowing that the frequency of the Radio Altimeter is 4400Mhz... why???), but again, the more you know the better is for you and for you to interact inside the local system, the better is for you to be up (or above) to the standards...
The last point is... this post is not a rumour nor a news... post it somewhere else next time... jet blast maybe?
And please get your books and study, it is not that bad at the end... if you can fly a big jet, then knowing all the JAA subjects would be easier for you.
Maybe you want to complaint about the High Standards?, it could be high for you, low for others, the important thing is to bring everything up to a level.
Leave the FAA for US and the JAA for the EU, buy fish in the fishmarket and bread in the bakery.... not the other way around...
Will and englishman complain about everybody is driving wrong way on the Highway in the US ? or will he adapt himself to the local system and drive on the RHS of the road?... same thing here... adapt to the local legislation, cultures and system... otherwise you will be swimming against the current...
If your point is about the excess of information in the subjects? Could be (like knowing that the frequency of the Radio Altimeter is 4400Mhz... why???), but again, the more you know the better is for you and for you to interact inside the local system, the better is for you to be up (or above) to the standards...
The last point is... this post is not a rumour nor a news... post it somewhere else next time... jet blast maybe?
And please get your books and study, it is not that bad at the end... if you can fly a big jet, then knowing all the JAA subjects would be easier for you.
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Farrell
Farrell, this was a low blow and nasty...The JAA tests are there to weed out psycho Yanks who think they can come over here with their Orville and Wilbur store card license (it's LICENCE!....oh no, but wait, you call it a certificate don't you. And here's me thinking that certificates came on sheets of paper. Oh well.)
To borrow one of yours.....Gimme a break, dude!
To borrow one of yours.....Gimme a break, dude!
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richatom
So you think this ACTUALLY makes it safer to fly in Europe than the US with the FAA system it sounds like you feel like a more difficult and HARDER system promotes better pilots. Please prove this by flight safety statistics....I think you will have a hard time doing this.
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Fork Handles
I have just analyzed the pros and cons of the whole JAA debacle.....but have decided maybe its not for me.....I rather fly and do the real thing, instead of burning the midnight oil and memorizing useless formulas and outdated information......I seriously believe it has NOTHING to make you safer or a better pilot than the FAA trained pilots, many here like to laugh at. It is just another USELESS obstacle milking you of your hard earned money and hardship.....we are all pilots and we all seek the same thing......fly airplanes. I think Europeans are all Outstanding aviators. It is unfair of many here to laugh at and make mockery of the FAA. They have after all certified many of you, and also the metal you strap your butts into everyday.
Its just a different mindset that goes into certification of airmen and the amount of hurdles you have to jump trough. Unfortunately my Euro brothers think hardship and lots of examinations makes VERY good pilots....unfortunately it is meaningless or in statistics comparing US to European aviation safety.
Its just a different mindset that goes into certification of airmen and the amount of hurdles you have to jump trough. Unfortunately my Euro brothers think hardship and lots of examinations makes VERY good pilots....unfortunately it is meaningless or in statistics comparing US to European aviation safety.
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Unless it has changed, the FAA would usually issue an restricted licence on the basis of a foreign pilots licence. However if you require an unrestricted pilots licence you were required to comply with the relevant experience and testing requirements. As far as the ground examination requirements are concerned this used to involve ( and perhaps still does) studying answers for 1000 published questions and paying your fee and sitting the exam.
In Europe most of the examinations are multiple choice these days and no doubt there are similar study materials. If the examinations are different or more difficult, or more expensive or even more expansive, then that is something you as a candidate will need to address. If it is the case that the US examinations are more difficult then the same will be true for reverse applicants. That is life and tough luck !
Different countries and different supranational authorities lay down their own standards in respect of licensing. If you want to convert from one to the other, you will need to comply as necessary, no matter how unfair or difficult you find the process.
This is not just true in respect of pilots licences, but even in relation to travel between the two trading blocks. If a pilot from Europe wishes to operate a flight into the United States, they will be required to set aside a few weeks to apply for the necessary visa. Pay the high cost of application, and then travel to their nations Capital city at not inconsiderable expense, to queue for most of the day to attend an interview. Then wait for the visa to be returned by post. This for the delight of often having to queue for hours each and every time they then need to use that visa to enter the USA. Citizens employed as crewmembers of that country, are not made to reciprocate. In most cases they need no visa, are quickly processed in to European nations with little fuss or hinderance. Maybe you should include that with your rant to your congressman ?
If you want to excercise your "dual citizenship" and work in Europe, then you will require the relevant licence. However difficult you might find that, others have achieved the relevant standard. If you think you are good enough then you should have little difficulty. If you think a dispensation should be made for you, then make the necessary application to the appropriate authority. However your congressman (if he isn't in court on some public decency violation charge this week,) is probably unlikely to be of much help in this regard.
In Europe most of the examinations are multiple choice these days and no doubt there are similar study materials. If the examinations are different or more difficult, or more expensive or even more expansive, then that is something you as a candidate will need to address. If it is the case that the US examinations are more difficult then the same will be true for reverse applicants. That is life and tough luck !
Different countries and different supranational authorities lay down their own standards in respect of licensing. If you want to convert from one to the other, you will need to comply as necessary, no matter how unfair or difficult you find the process.
This is not just true in respect of pilots licences, but even in relation to travel between the two trading blocks. If a pilot from Europe wishes to operate a flight into the United States, they will be required to set aside a few weeks to apply for the necessary visa. Pay the high cost of application, and then travel to their nations Capital city at not inconsiderable expense, to queue for most of the day to attend an interview. Then wait for the visa to be returned by post. This for the delight of often having to queue for hours each and every time they then need to use that visa to enter the USA. Citizens employed as crewmembers of that country, are not made to reciprocate. In most cases they need no visa, are quickly processed in to European nations with little fuss or hinderance. Maybe you should include that with your rant to your congressman ?
If you want to excercise your "dual citizenship" and work in Europe, then you will require the relevant licence. However difficult you might find that, others have achieved the relevant standard. If you think you are good enough then you should have little difficulty. If you think a dispensation should be made for you, then make the necessary application to the appropriate authority. However your congressman (if he isn't in court on some public decency violation charge this week,) is probably unlikely to be of much help in this regard.
Last edited by Bealzebub; 21st Apr 2008 at 17:03.
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Being a European, from my point of view there's not much sense in this regulation of having to sit in on 14 tests, since the questions in the JAR database focus on phenomenons that are in general the same worldwide, so why would it have to be the main factor to determine whether you are eligible to fly in Europe.
One of the most significant aspects between the continents is the attitude to creating rules, that are far stricter in the EU, which is understandable due to the traffic/land ratio. That's why I think maybe a few flights on the jump seat would in the end be more valuable than taking the theoretical tests.
That's just my opinion
One of the most significant aspects between the continents is the attitude to creating rules, that are far stricter in the EU, which is understandable due to the traffic/land ratio. That's why I think maybe a few flights on the jump seat would in the end be more valuable than taking the theoretical tests.
That's just my opinion
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No reason for the hardfeelings towards european, most of us had to go thru all these exams. To let it out on the forum will not solve your problems. "If you can not beat them, join them". In my time I had a US licence, and guess what I had to do it all over again in europe...So what's the problem. Get your nose in those books...
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747driver, i agree with you(I have FAA/JAA). all these license conversion are joke. it is just about $$$$, how much money they can get from you. it has nothing to do with safety. it 's all politic, job protection,...
if everybody run to USA to lean to fly , then get a JAR license automatically , EU schools will close for sure, flight instructor will be without job,...you have to pay for your license here...that s all.
when u spend money, u give jobs...we dont care if u are good or not, all we want in this system is your money, so people here in europe can keep their job.
expect to pay 40'000$ for your JAA license.
if everybody run to USA to lean to fly , then get a JAR license automatically , EU schools will close for sure, flight instructor will be without job,...you have to pay for your license here...that s all.
when u spend money, u give jobs...we dont care if u are good or not, all we want in this system is your money, so people here in europe can keep their job.
expect to pay 40'000$ for your JAA license.
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747jetdriver,I think you are taking it a bit personally! The whole system is a hoop jumping exercise which you need to do to fly in europe. The exams seem to prepare you for single pilot transpolar public transport ops (Gridnav anyone) navigating by loran and decca. How much do I use on a daily basis? 5-10% maybe. Still if you do get your in the books and pass it will prepare you well for any interveiw and there is always the satisfaction of knowing you have passed! 
All the best
All the best