bmibaby
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Can anyone tell me what time to command is, ie hrs etc.....
Also, can anyone tell me if they are recruiting FO's (733 rated) for MAN. With 2k+heavy turbo prop hrs, 500+hrs 733 do you go in as SFO, if so, what is the pay? What is net take home per/month for SFO's?
Cheers
Also, can anyone tell me if they are recruiting FO's (733 rated) for MAN. With 2k+heavy turbo prop hrs, 500+hrs 733 do you go in as SFO, if so, what is the pay? What is net take home per/month for SFO's?
Cheers
Last edited by CAT1 REVERSION; 14th Apr 2008 at 09:31.
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So what are Baby going to do in order to weather the storm? Ryans are freezing pay and grounding aircraft EZY are freezing pay stopping recruitment and getting shot of a few old 700's. Does Baby have it's head in the sand? How can they afford the fuel and a market downturn? They have made no progress for ages now, no new bases no new aircraft no continental expansion.....Where are they gona be in a years time?
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Originally Posted by crewcostundercontrol
EZY are freezing pay stopping recruitment and getting shot of a few old 700's
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The following are my personal thoughts on the matter:
I believe the problem that EZ and FR have is that they are just too big, all those planes need so much fuel, and with fuel being $105-$110 per barrel, in my view, they cannot afford to fly them, slash seats to 1p and keep buying new planes at the same time; something has got to give.
Have they both expanded too much? I don't know, but baby has 80% load factors across all it's bases and is making money (not a lot, a little), but it's doing so without having to cut prices to compete or give a million seats away in order to drum up business. Can the same be said for the likes of FR or EZ?
Interesting times indeed.
8028410q
I believe the problem that EZ and FR have is that they are just too big, all those planes need so much fuel, and with fuel being $105-$110 per barrel, in my view, they cannot afford to fly them, slash seats to 1p and keep buying new planes at the same time; something has got to give.
Have they both expanded too much? I don't know, but baby has 80% load factors across all it's bases and is making money (not a lot, a little), but it's doing so without having to cut prices to compete or give a million seats away in order to drum up business. Can the same be said for the likes of FR or EZ?
Interesting times indeed.
8028410q
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Costs mate you've answered your own question ! Baby don't need to freeze pay and ground aircraft for exactly the reason they haven't expanded rapidly and opened lots of european bases filled by expensively leased airbuses and NGs ! Ok the profits aren't massive but neither are the losses !
Heads aren't in the sand. 2008 looks good but it's 2009 that is going to be where the pain really starts to hit. On that basis I don't think Baby are worse of than anyone else they only have to fund the operation of 21 relatively cheap (lease wise) aircraft not a couple of hundred expensive ones. Sometimes economies of scale work the other way as well !
BUT if the bankers don't stop cashing in their business and heading for their holiday homes in the carribean to ride out the coming storm we're all in trouble anyway no matter what industry or job you have !
To answer the question back on thread. Baby are looking for tyoe rated (only) FOs. All will join as FOs no matter what experience. SFO only available following successful command assessment. Not sure there's any difference in Ts&Cs anyway. Not sure what bases these are for. No direct entry commands for 2008-09 as there is now a reasonable pool of command ready SFOs. As with all LoCos expect to work 850 to 900 hours. No fixed roster but guaranteed 10 days off and one "Day Free Of Duty" in 28 which is pretty good.
Heads aren't in the sand. 2008 looks good but it's 2009 that is going to be where the pain really starts to hit. On that basis I don't think Baby are worse of than anyone else they only have to fund the operation of 21 relatively cheap (lease wise) aircraft not a couple of hundred expensive ones. Sometimes economies of scale work the other way as well !
BUT if the bankers don't stop cashing in their business and heading for their holiday homes in the carribean to ride out the coming storm we're all in trouble anyway no matter what industry or job you have !
To answer the question back on thread. Baby are looking for tyoe rated (only) FOs. All will join as FOs no matter what experience. SFO only available following successful command assessment. Not sure there's any difference in Ts&Cs anyway. Not sure what bases these are for. No direct entry commands for 2008-09 as there is now a reasonable pool of command ready SFOs. As with all LoCos expect to work 850 to 900 hours. No fixed roster but guaranteed 10 days off and one "Day Free Of Duty" in 28 which is pretty good.
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What are the current Ts&Cs? Is ppjn accurate? I'm curious to also know how much you guys make a month in sector pay on average. How does being paid by the sector as opposed to the hour work out? Also are you guaranteed (as much as possible) to do the 800 hours+ in a year? Interested to know as I (in the airline that is supposed to work you to death (FR)) did about 570 hours in the last year which is just crippling financially.
Happy place to be?
Seem to agree with the earlier sentiments regding baby's position in the marketplace, the business seems solid enough. 80% load factros and positive forward bookings are always a good indicator, particularly if the pricing of the tickets is realistic as well. The problem as we see it with FR is that they are in a situation where the planes keep coming cos they cant delay or cancel them, they don't seem to be able to think about stopping recruitment - we are so ridiculously overcrewed it's unreal, and yet continue to sell seats for 1p. I did a trip over to Ireland last week that had 11 pax. Anyway I seem to have gotten side tracked this thread is nothing to do with FR!!
Replies to the above queries in any form gratefully received.
Happy place to be?
Seem to agree with the earlier sentiments regding baby's position in the marketplace, the business seems solid enough. 80% load factros and positive forward bookings are always a good indicator, particularly if the pricing of the tickets is realistic as well. The problem as we see it with FR is that they are in a situation where the planes keep coming cos they cant delay or cancel them, they don't seem to be able to think about stopping recruitment - we are so ridiculously overcrewed it's unreal, and yet continue to sell seats for 1p. I did a trip over to Ireland last week that had 11 pax. Anyway I seem to have gotten side tracked this thread is nothing to do with FR!!
Replies to the above queries in any form gratefully received.
Last edited by Cloud Bunny; 15th Apr 2008 at 14:37.
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Baby are looking for tyoe rated (only) FOs. All will join as FOs no matter what experience
No direct entry commands for 2008-09 as there is now a reasonable pool of command ready SFOs
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Buzzlight. Don't shoot the messenger. Obviously transfers within the group should take priority BUT Baby staff enquiring about recruitment have been told there are vacancies but only for people holding a 737 type rating. The fact there aren't any available doesn't seem to make much difference. Having come from outside I'm not sure of the internal politics but would a transfer from regional result in a "free" type rating ? I'm in no way saying it shouldn't, it obviously should. The politics of who pays for what within the bmi group maybe holding you back more than the personal wishes of those making the decisions. I doubt there's any spare cash in the Baby training budget for internal transfers if these have to be funded by Tiny Town. They are not even recruiting on a self sponsored basis at present.
8028410q
Indeed the same can be said for EZY!
Pax figures for March 08 shows a load factor of 87.4% and a rolling annual load factor of 83.5%.
Thats a total of 39,652,382 passengers!
Indeed the same can be said for EZY!
Pax figures for March 08 shows a load factor of 87.4% and a rolling annual load factor of 83.5%.
Thats a total of 39,652,382 passengers!
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Cloud Bunny,
Current T & C's (rounded up/down)
New entrant (up to final line check) £25k
Frozen ATPL (from final line check) £36.5k
Unfrozen ATPL £45k
SFO £47k
FOs sector pay £14
Captain £75k
Captains sector pay £23
So a FO could expect around £51k gross whilst a Captain can expect £86k gross.
The grass often appears greener but often disappoints - I will not consider jumping ship to Ryanair. Ryanair have failed to impact on baby ops primarily because when they expand into a current baby base the airfield management seem to be insisting on new routes not competition over existing routes. Perversely this is good for baby - Ryanair advertising raises the profile of the new (to them) airfield, when pax find they can't fly to their preferred destination with Ryanair they look elsewhere and sometimes we pick up their custom.
I will echo the comments of others on here that baby is a good employer with a really decent chief pilot. Not perfect but all small niggly stuff that will seem trifling if/when the recession bites. The ex Ryanair pilots with baby seem to be glad with the T & C's and are certainly not looking to move back to Ryanair. Time to command is now looking longer as a pool of command assessed FO's builds up - some new command courses going through at 2 per month.
Rumours abound concerning bmi - but the middle managers whom I trust (where else can you say that!!!!) seem pretty confident about the future.
It's been said elsewhere that SMB is looking to buy not sell so prospects appear better here than many other places. Only time will tell.
Current T & C's (rounded up/down)
New entrant (up to final line check) £25k
Frozen ATPL (from final line check) £36.5k
Unfrozen ATPL £45k
SFO £47k
FOs sector pay £14
Captain £75k
Captains sector pay £23
So a FO could expect around £51k gross whilst a Captain can expect £86k gross.
The grass often appears greener but often disappoints - I will not consider jumping ship to Ryanair. Ryanair have failed to impact on baby ops primarily because when they expand into a current baby base the airfield management seem to be insisting on new routes not competition over existing routes. Perversely this is good for baby - Ryanair advertising raises the profile of the new (to them) airfield, when pax find they can't fly to their preferred destination with Ryanair they look elsewhere and sometimes we pick up their custom.
I will echo the comments of others on here that baby is a good employer with a really decent chief pilot. Not perfect but all small niggly stuff that will seem trifling if/when the recession bites. The ex Ryanair pilots with baby seem to be glad with the T & C's and are certainly not looking to move back to Ryanair. Time to command is now looking longer as a pool of command assessed FO's builds up - some new command courses going through at 2 per month.
Rumours abound concerning bmi - but the middle managers whom I trust (where else can you say that!!!!) seem pretty confident about the future.
It's been said elsewhere that SMB is looking to buy not sell so prospects appear better here than many other places. Only time will tell.