Ryanair Unionization

[BerksFlyer]

You're flying Boeings, so you must have a defined level of experience. Does everyone want to fly from Ireland so badly that they will put up with anything to be based there?

Their main base isn't even in Ireland and as long as you can pay for a type rating and meet a minumum standard you're in, so ryanair pilots don't necessarily have a defined level of experience simply because they fly Boeings.

[Jetwhine]

Ryanair

OK, paying for their own type to get hired is not new. Southwest has been doing that for 30 years and they have no end of great candidates ready to work for a great airline.

But anyone with a PPL and a multi can buy a type rating. The Ryanair site says they should have 500 in a Boeing to get hired in the right seat. Obviously should doesn't mean they must. And they hire captains off the street?

Is there no senority list at Ryanair?

I'll tell you one thing though that I bet is a strong draw to get people to stay ... being home every night. I talk to a lot of pilots to whom the thrill of hotels and overnights have worn off long ago. But I also bet those pilots are older. Has anyone ever seen a demographic breakdown of Ryanair pilots?

I can see it. We'll treat you like hell during your workday, but you'll be back at home base every night whether it's ...

• London-Stansted
• Dublin
• Shannon
• Cork
• Glasgow-Prestwick
• East Midlands
• Liverpool
• Bristol
• Luton
• Belfast City
• Barcelona-Girona
• Madrid
• Valencia
• Alicante
• Marseille
• Brussels-Charleroi
• Stockholm-Skavsta
• Frankfurt-Hahn
• Bremen
• Dusseldorf-Weeze
• Milan-Bergamo
• Pisa-Florence
• Rome-Ciampino

This might be harder to walk away from than we think.

[vector3]

Communism

It's the way RYR management is built up on.Communism.
It's built on fear.Pilots are afraid to stand up for them self.From day one you've been told to stay low and just do as the company tells you to.
If not you will be targeted in diff ways.
Many just think one day ahead and does not realize that they will not give you what they promise.They've done it so many times and will for sure do it again.It's unbeliveable.

[BALLSOUT]

Yet another thread full of rubbish. Posted mostly by people who don't know what they are talking about!
Ryanair is a company that makes lots of money. they fly new aircraft. Pilots get home every night. They train to a very high standard, and recruitment standards are high. Other than cadets, pilot pay is well above industry average, and employed pilots fly around 750 hours a year.
There are plenty Pilots out there would give a lot to be part of it.
I agree it is not perfect, but what is?

[squeaker]

Nice man, Mr O'Leary

Just a gripe, really, but the banner ad running at the top of this website about "IALPA Chickens Out" is not something that we should have to look at.
I'm sure I'm not alone in wishing MOL would stop crowing about how successful he is at pilot bashing.

Mind you, the thought occurs that if MOL is paying Danny each time someone clicks on it.....
http://www.ryanair.com/site/EN/notic...cken_out_again

[SpannerInTheWerks]

Well it's so childish and hard to imagine the mentality of the 'managers' in charge in this airline who would lower themselves to the level witnessed in the banner advert.

Allegedly intelligent individuals who make a lot of money through their ability, yet ridicule people less well off than themselves. Bullies by any other name who know no better and care even less.

Childish if it wasn't so important. Children playing with big boys' toys.

They deserve a legal 'clip 'round the ear 'ole'.

Silly men the lot of them.

SITW

[Jetwhine]

Ryanair

Probably sounds silly, but has it occured to anyone that the reason the Ryanair folks are not unionized is that they are perfectly happy with the way they are being treated?

Maybe it's just me, but most people here in the states seem to have a very high tolerance for just about anything dished out by their employers, except controllers, especially when they let them fly big new jets.

[BongleBear]

No, the pilots aren't happy about it. However, not alot will be done about it because there's three types of guys at ryanair:

Pilots who..

1. ..have been there a while (longer than 3 years) and have had enough of the way they're treated. Some may have enough know-how to do something about it, but they need the support of the others..

2. ..are using ryanair as a stepping stone to a larger carrier. They have joined low houred and figured 'i may aswell pay for my tr and get jar25 experience straight away'. These guys have joined for the short term they don't mind what goes on in the company because as bad as it may get they'll only be there for a couple more years.

3. ..have joined because it is a good lifestyle. They've got a family now and want to be home every night. There's a long list of bases to choose from (they're not to know they wont actually get to that base of choice, but even that's not too big of an issue). These pilots would love the 5/4 roster, but nearly all are on 5/3. Now there's a great bargaining chip for MoL.

Pilots 1 would like it changed, but not on their own. Some of the Dublin pilots tried it, with almost zero support, and it didn't work- and how ryanair love to wipe that all over the press, warning off any other attempts ("it cost x amount of euros and they lost")
Pilots 2 don't really mind either way, would be nice if it changed, but not worth getting on the wrong side of managament over
Pilots 3 are quite happy, they'll stay out of it because they've got families to worry about

Now that may be generalising but I think it's pretty accurate. Also I hold nothing against any of these pilots, they all they're (very valid) reasons.

B.Bear

[BongleBear]

ps .. I also find it utterly disgusting that you (pprune) have allowed ryanair to advertise their propaganda. They're trying to scare they're own pilots into not taking action to get what they deserve. Disgusting.

[Flintstone]

My initial reaction to the banner was initially one of disgust (at Ryanair) then disappointment (at Danny et al). Then I gave it some thought.

1. There is a certain irony in O'Leary paying toward a site that is used, at least in part, to organise his crew into a union. That appeals to me, perhaps I'm warped.

2. Perhaps there's more to this than meets the eye? Maybe the banner was allowed in the hope that it would galvanise Ryanair crew into doing something about it? If this is the case I'd say the short term irritation is far outweighed by the long term benefits.

3. I've been around PPRuNe for a while now and though I don't know Danny personally I very much doubt he and his helper monkeys allowed the ad to run purely for the few measly quid they would have been paid for it. I'm sure 'someone' would have weighed up the potential damage to the site from any backlash. If money were the main concern I'd say letting the ad run would be a huge risk.

On reflection I'm inclined to think there's more to it than simply accepting revenue from an advertiser although the ultra-cynical part of me is whispering "But what if they let the ad run knowing it would generate debate and more hits on the site?". Damn my overactive imagination

[Jaxon]

ps .. I also find it utterly disgusting that you (pprune) have allowed ryanair to advertise their propaganda. They're trying to scare they're own pilots into not taking action to get what they deserve. Disgusting.

I think its brilliant. You've been clearly notified by the management of the airline what they think of your ability to think and work together toward an organized negotiation. They are right or they are wrong. If they are right you should just be quiet because you aren't going to do anything anyway and nobody wants to listen to a bunch of whining. If they are wrong then they have just made the mistake of poking you with a smelly stick in your own clubhouse and perhaps you will stand up and do something about it.

If I were both dissatisfied AND insulted I would thank the website for facilitating my enlightenment.

[BongleBear]

I can't believe people think that nothing's being done about it. If you don't know the legal history behind it all then please don't comment.

[Jaxon]

Is that what I said?

It is certainly true I am merely an observer regarding the airline but I am a professional aviator, can I stay? I can read... and as I read it, it appears that there is indeed a shortage of active union supporters, yes or no?

Glad you're mad. Good luck.

[BongleBear]

Yes that it what you said:

If they are right you should just be quiet because you aren't going to do anything anyway and nobody wants to listen to a bunch of whining.

A bunch of whining what?

[Jaxon]

Sorry for the confusion, "You" meant to refer to everyone at the airline and the rest should pretty much read clearly.

[Lazy skip]

Eh... I still remember my first day in FR in early 2003...There were 12 of us up in East mids to attend this "company" induction course. They accomodate us in this room and after about 20 min this guy named chief crew scheduling (and most of FR people know who I`m referring to), showed up and first thing he said was " Well guys right now FR pilot body consist in about 500 pilot and that means that I have 500 problems, so what I see in this room is just 12 more problems". The speech was suddenly interrupted by the noise of a chair and this guy in his 50s stood up and walked out. We were all frozen apart from the FR boy who carried on with out giving a toss.
About 30 min later the brain wash was over, so few of us went outside for bit of deserved fresh air, and the "old" guy was still there smoking one cigarette after the other, me and another 2 guys went over and asked what was the problem. He smiled and replied" What is the problem??, can`t you guys see the problem, well I can, and you will as well... just takes some years..." Turned out the guy was a Delta captain who was made redundant after 9/11,( and yes few of them came here).
The guy then left in the afternoon and went back to US, never heard of him again.
Now, few years later, every time I see what is going on in this company I remember of him and I`d like to tell him that I can see the problem now... Just hope he gave up smoking and he is happy,reteried and taking the piss of us blind, idiots.
Btw just in case you read this one:you forgot to tell us how to fix the problem!! Maybe just throw the chair and walk out???

[Jaxon]

Great story, thanks for sharing that one. The smoking thing sounded strangely un-American for airline pilots but there are a few out there (compared to the multitudes elsewhere). (On a side note, the U.S. tobacco companies have been completely thrashed in their U.S. business, its really the rest of the world that now gives them their $$$. Sue their asses. But i digress...)

The answer is simple and difficult.
Organize. Many must become one.
Think like a business comprised of a mob, not a mob just giving the business. It is a business you are in, it is a business mind you should have. (...and not the communist mindset that N4641P appears to swing. Though he may have a very valid gripe about corrupt organizations.)

[Jetwhine]

Ryanair

In answer to what can be done, the answer is simple. Anything ... that is safe of course. Right now, you can easily see that if you are a Ryanair pilot, the efforts you're making aren't working.

That's OK. Just try something else.

But the biggest roadblock for the Ryanair pilots isn't Mr. O'Leary, I think. It's the rest of the pilot group.

Plenty of them are perfectly content to sit back and let some other poor goof do the work, take the heat, be suspended, so long as they don't have to do the work themselves. But they'll be there with their paws out when the extra Euros or the days off come around.

That's not simply pilots though, that's part of every one in the world these days. That's a much bigger issue.

But I too digress.

How about a show of hands for the number of Ryanair pilots you guys from that company think you could actually muster to cause a ruckous - a safe one obviously. Would it be 10, 30, 50?

You don't need the entire pilot group, at first. Really.

What you need to get going is a handful of people with some courage and a plan. With a good tactical plan, you can create some awareness.

The goal shouldn't be to piss off Mr. O'Leary as much as to get some press that makes the passengers think twice.

A few really can lead the many, if they plan right.

[RAT 5]

Big sickie. What'll he do, fire the lot of you? Doubt it. Base by base. 1 each week. Catch the eye of the press for sure. Make the share holders wake up. 1day's pay for much gain, perhaps?

Please stop thinking about it out loud. We've heard it all before, for many years. Still waiting for someone to light the blue touch paper. Is it a case of everyone is afraid of geting their fingures burnt? No pain no gain.

[Jetwhine]

Ryanair

Rat5 is right on the money.

No one else can do the work. Some of us can help you plan the tactics, but someone in the pilot group needs the testosterone organs to get it going.

Maybe a better question is what about that percentage of the group that BongleBear said have had enough. That's all the folks you need to get going. I've done it and it isn't that hard.