RYANAIR CPT vs FOs
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RYANAIR CPT vs FOs
Its that time of year again,
Well it turns out there was a ‘secret’ ERC meeting in Stansted yesterday, so the three stooges could negotiate there own fat pay rise, what about the rest of us…are we not allowed to know that OUR Employee Representative Committee are having this meeting! Probably not, because they are lining their own pockets and not thinking about anyone else, no signs, no posters in the crew room, no note on crew dock, just a secret hush hush meeting with the management.
What happened to REPA?? Haven’t had a text in a while!
What happened to BALPA?
The rumoured pay deal is something similar the last effort, sector pay £24 per hour for captains and £17 per hour for FO’s, yes £17 per hour!!
So if you work 900 hrs per year, which you probably wont,
Captains - 900x24= 21600 /12 = approx £1800 per month
FO’s 900x17=15300/12 = approx £1275 per month
At the moment its approx £22 per hour for FO’s and Captains
22x900=19800/12=£1650 per month
I guess you can see where this is going for the FO’s…..
I should imagine there’s a few other extras thrown in to gloss over the reduction in sector pay, rubbish pension (no good if you leave) and what not, but its still going to be a pay cut.
Ryanair seem to think that FO’s will accept this because they know that in three years with the bare minimum hours they can be a Captain and get a pay rise, but what are the FO’s supposed to do for the first three years, I don’t know bout you, but my whole life doesn’t revolve around getting four stripes! FO’s still have houses, kids etc to pay for, plus the loans they got to get the job in the first place, £70000 plus, and we don’t all have a rich daddy!
This situation is just like their random base change pay cuts, they open a base near where you call home, they offer you the chance to move home, but what they don’t tell you is they’ve already cut your pay by up to £16000 per year, because they think they are doing you a favour by moving you home, well you can get lost!
This is going to turn into a situation where all the FO’s with a 1000hrs+ jet time are going to leave for somewhere better, then you will have no internal command upgrades leaving the company with DEC’s from another defunct airline somewhere in the world flying with a 200 hr cadet’s. Be afraid, very afraid!!!
This will also result I an extreme cockpit gradient, not just in experience, but knowing that the guy sat next to you in the left voted yes and therefore lost you 500-800 pounds a month, should make for interesting cockpit conversation, and indeed performance and safety! Sure, the lack of quality is already starting to show its head, no more command checks (to reduce failure rate) and a simplified LPC/OPC sim layout, which is easier to pass, or as they look at it NOT to fail!!
I’m not doubting anyone’s professionalism when it comes to flying, hell, with the amount of SOP’s, duplicated checklist items and standard calls in place its hard to miss something important (although it does happen…) but I don’t think the YES voting captain is going to get as much out of the NO voting FO as he would if we had ALL STICKED TOGETHER!! And worked as a TEAM. Bye bye CRM, what’s that they teach you at east mid’s, there’s no I in TEAM (well, unless you’re a Ryanair YES captain that is!!)
This could be one of the best airlines in Europe, great routes, fairly new aircraft, the management just need to realise this, a happy pilot is a safer and more productive pilot, which I think I fairly obvious.
For the sake of the company, and the FO’s, lets have an open discussion about this ERC, why behind closed doors…….fat brown envelopes……..?
Well it turns out there was a ‘secret’ ERC meeting in Stansted yesterday, so the three stooges could negotiate there own fat pay rise, what about the rest of us…are we not allowed to know that OUR Employee Representative Committee are having this meeting! Probably not, because they are lining their own pockets and not thinking about anyone else, no signs, no posters in the crew room, no note on crew dock, just a secret hush hush meeting with the management.
What happened to REPA?? Haven’t had a text in a while!
What happened to BALPA?
The rumoured pay deal is something similar the last effort, sector pay £24 per hour for captains and £17 per hour for FO’s, yes £17 per hour!!
So if you work 900 hrs per year, which you probably wont,
Captains - 900x24= 21600 /12 = approx £1800 per month
FO’s 900x17=15300/12 = approx £1275 per month
At the moment its approx £22 per hour for FO’s and Captains
22x900=19800/12=£1650 per month
I guess you can see where this is going for the FO’s…..
I should imagine there’s a few other extras thrown in to gloss over the reduction in sector pay, rubbish pension (no good if you leave) and what not, but its still going to be a pay cut.
Ryanair seem to think that FO’s will accept this because they know that in three years with the bare minimum hours they can be a Captain and get a pay rise, but what are the FO’s supposed to do for the first three years, I don’t know bout you, but my whole life doesn’t revolve around getting four stripes! FO’s still have houses, kids etc to pay for, plus the loans they got to get the job in the first place, £70000 plus, and we don’t all have a rich daddy!
This situation is just like their random base change pay cuts, they open a base near where you call home, they offer you the chance to move home, but what they don’t tell you is they’ve already cut your pay by up to £16000 per year, because they think they are doing you a favour by moving you home, well you can get lost!
This is going to turn into a situation where all the FO’s with a 1000hrs+ jet time are going to leave for somewhere better, then you will have no internal command upgrades leaving the company with DEC’s from another defunct airline somewhere in the world flying with a 200 hr cadet’s. Be afraid, very afraid!!!
This will also result I an extreme cockpit gradient, not just in experience, but knowing that the guy sat next to you in the left voted yes and therefore lost you 500-800 pounds a month, should make for interesting cockpit conversation, and indeed performance and safety! Sure, the lack of quality is already starting to show its head, no more command checks (to reduce failure rate) and a simplified LPC/OPC sim layout, which is easier to pass, or as they look at it NOT to fail!!
I’m not doubting anyone’s professionalism when it comes to flying, hell, with the amount of SOP’s, duplicated checklist items and standard calls in place its hard to miss something important (although it does happen…) but I don’t think the YES voting captain is going to get as much out of the NO voting FO as he would if we had ALL STICKED TOGETHER!! And worked as a TEAM. Bye bye CRM, what’s that they teach you at east mid’s, there’s no I in TEAM (well, unless you’re a Ryanair YES captain that is!!)
This could be one of the best airlines in Europe, great routes, fairly new aircraft, the management just need to realise this, a happy pilot is a safer and more productive pilot, which I think I fairly obvious.
For the sake of the company, and the FO’s, lets have an open discussion about this ERC, why behind closed doors…….fat brown envelopes……..?
CW, that's sector pay: it's a portion of salary.
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Notagain, you are clearly angry about this - and if it is true then you have every right to be. It sounds outrageous on the face of it; especially if your ERC are supposed to be acting in your best interests... whatever happened to transparency!
The point you raise about FOs salary rings home with me. I am only a lowly PPL(H) holder; but the thought of flying for a living (fixed or rotary) always crosses my mind.
However, thankfully i have a good job in Manufacturing IT (paid for the PPL at least!); and even if I was fortunate to land an FO job with a airline I don't think the salaries on offer until you reach command are enough for me to live on.
Before everybody starts shouting me down, other than the helicoptering I don't live an outrageous life style - I drive a Ford Focus, live in a mortgaged 2 bed terraced in Coventry, and have a 1 month old baby boy.
Setting aside the valid CRM issues you raise, you would have thought that both the airlines and those with a command would realise that if anything you need a decent salary more when you are FO (and by implication relatively fresh faced) - you are normally younger and so trying to set up home; and you have the crippling debt of your training to repay....
... its such a shame. Anyway, I must get back to dreaming up ways to get rid of my mortgage... but all the very best in negotiating a much fairer pay settlement.
The point you raise about FOs salary rings home with me. I am only a lowly PPL(H) holder; but the thought of flying for a living (fixed or rotary) always crosses my mind.
However, thankfully i have a good job in Manufacturing IT (paid for the PPL at least!); and even if I was fortunate to land an FO job with a airline I don't think the salaries on offer until you reach command are enough for me to live on.
Before everybody starts shouting me down, other than the helicoptering I don't live an outrageous life style - I drive a Ford Focus, live in a mortgaged 2 bed terraced in Coventry, and have a 1 month old baby boy.
Setting aside the valid CRM issues you raise, you would have thought that both the airlines and those with a command would realise that if anything you need a decent salary more when you are FO (and by implication relatively fresh faced) - you are normally younger and so trying to set up home; and you have the crippling debt of your training to repay....
... its such a shame. Anyway, I must get back to dreaming up ways to get rid of my mortgage... but all the very best in negotiating a much fairer pay settlement.
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Fair enough, your life might not revolve around getting 4 stripes, but do consider that once you do then you will likely spend a LOT more of your career in the LHS than as an FO.
Sacrifcing Captains pay for FOs may seem all very equitable at any one instant in time but when you look at YOUR potential earnings over your entire career a different picture emerges.
Alternatively, one could always leave and join a company which doesn't hold it's employees in such contempt.
Sacrifcing Captains pay for FOs may seem all very equitable at any one instant in time but when you look at YOUR potential earnings over your entire career a different picture emerges.
Alternatively, one could always leave and join a company which doesn't hold it's employees in such contempt.
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Helicraig:
Next time you think about a glamorous flying job, think about the amount of time you get to spend with that new baby boy (and congrats on that!) - and how it will suffer. Also think about the constant knowledge that your newfound company is going to try to follow the you know who market led trend of trying to continuously screw down your terms and conditions. I know of no other field of endeavor where people continue to put up with the pressures and vagaries of their existence in the same manner as flight crew - who do it because they love the challenge of flying. Try putting the average bean counter in the front seat of a handflown aircraft moving at 150 kts towards a rainy wet runway in heavy turbulence and high gusting crosswinds/crap visibility, and the sure knowledge that you've got 25 minutes to get it all turned around and do it again. Sorry, but the bean counter would be halfway to the coffee machine and their team-building exercise, before you crossed the threshold.
It's a different world, and as long as the office boys run the show, that's the way it's gonna be...
Next time you think about a glamorous flying job, think about the amount of time you get to spend with that new baby boy (and congrats on that!) - and how it will suffer. Also think about the constant knowledge that your newfound company is going to try to follow the you know who market led trend of trying to continuously screw down your terms and conditions. I know of no other field of endeavor where people continue to put up with the pressures and vagaries of their existence in the same manner as flight crew - who do it because they love the challenge of flying. Try putting the average bean counter in the front seat of a handflown aircraft moving at 150 kts towards a rainy wet runway in heavy turbulence and high gusting crosswinds/crap visibility, and the sure knowledge that you've got 25 minutes to get it all turned around and do it again. Sorry, but the bean counter would be halfway to the coffee machine and their team-building exercise, before you crossed the threshold.
It's a different world, and as long as the office boys run the show, that's the way it's gonna be...
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Notagain....
I presume you researched the methods of this company before you signed on the dotted line with them? The practices of Ryanair are well known and have been extensively published here and elsewhere over a number of years.
Perhaps your experiences should serve as a salutary lesson for those who might act with similar haste in order to enter the airline profession at any price.
I presume you researched the methods of this company before you signed on the dotted line with them? The practices of Ryanair are well known and have been extensively published here and elsewhere over a number of years.
Perhaps your experiences should serve as a salutary lesson for those who might act with similar haste in order to enter the airline profession at any price.
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Magplug,
i did look in to Ryanair before i joined,indeed i searched on this very site and read many posts with many different view's.But looking back i probably made the wrong choice,the lure of a shiny new jet,various bases and that ever so practiced nack that Ryanair have of convincing you that its not that bad,and its the highest paid airline in europe!! you will see the banner on this very site advertising such a 'fact'. Ive been here for a few years,and i've seen thing go from bad to worse.My original post hopefully will make interesting reading for anyone looking to join,or pilots already working there that didn't even realise these so called negotiations where going on,thats how the ERC seems to work,as i mentioned in the first post there seems to be no such thing as an open discussion in Ryanair (unless of course you count the 'town hall meetings',but these just appear to be a standard powerpoint point presentation and a whole load of false PR).
Im hoping some more pilots read this and post so we can get a general feel of the situation within the STN based captains and fo's.
i did look in to Ryanair before i joined,indeed i searched on this very site and read many posts with many different view's.But looking back i probably made the wrong choice,the lure of a shiny new jet,various bases and that ever so practiced nack that Ryanair have of convincing you that its not that bad,and its the highest paid airline in europe!! you will see the banner on this very site advertising such a 'fact'. Ive been here for a few years,and i've seen thing go from bad to worse.My original post hopefully will make interesting reading for anyone looking to join,or pilots already working there that didn't even realise these so called negotiations where going on,thats how the ERC seems to work,as i mentioned in the first post there seems to be no such thing as an open discussion in Ryanair (unless of course you count the 'town hall meetings',but these just appear to be a standard powerpoint point presentation and a whole load of false PR).
Im hoping some more pilots read this and post so we can get a general feel of the situation within the STN based captains and fo's.
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As far as I can see we rejected 5k in allowances, 5K in company pension contribution and a 5/4 roster with no loss of holiday for just 2% increase on basic pay. The deal was good for Captains, not good for F/Os so we rightly rejected it. Unless we have union representation we are all going to lose out but unfortunately the vast majority of F/Os I fly with don't belong to BALPA so next time I will vote for the deal if it is similar to the last one.
Last edited by jazzcat2000; 22nd Nov 2007 at 15:26. Reason: speeling mistook
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The Sandman
Try getting a Pilot to come in at 0730 when his report time should be 0900, every work day.
Try getting a Pilot to be on call 24/7
Try getting a Pilot to work on his laptop from 1900-2200 on Co business having done a 12hr day already then being back at work at 0730
Try getting a Pilot to have 96 days off and 2 weeks holiday in a year
Try getting a Pilot to come in at 0730 when his report time should be 0900, every work day.
Try getting a Pilot to be on call 24/7
Try getting a Pilot to work on his laptop from 1900-2200 on Co business having done a 12hr day already then being back at work at 0730
Try getting a Pilot to have 96 days off and 2 weeks holiday in a year
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Mr Angry, your points are irrelevant as it would be illegal for a pilot to do as you suggest. There are laws to prevent such fatigue inducing behaviour, as a slip by a pilot can cost lives, a slip by an office worker will not.
Once again the ryanair pilots drop the ball it seems. Unity is your friend, without it you'll be screwed, yet again. Any captain who thinks alienating the FO's is a good idea is living in fairyland. Soon enough said FO's will be shaft you in return when their command turn comes.
You really are a pack of short-sighted idiots. Thanks for screwing our profession. Yet again.
From what I hear, not enough of you will join. 
How those that don't manage to get out of bed in the morning, yet alone fly an aeroplane is beyond me.
Once again the ryanair pilots drop the ball it seems. Unity is your friend, without it you'll be screwed, yet again. Any captain who thinks alienating the FO's is a good idea is living in fairyland. Soon enough said FO's will be shaft you in return when their command turn comes.
You really are a pack of short-sighted idiots. Thanks for screwing our profession. Yet again.
What happened to REPA?? Haven’t had a text in a while!
What happened to BALPA?
What happened to BALPA?
How those that don't manage to get out of bed in the morning, yet alone fly an aeroplane is beyond me.
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Get your self a union.
Then you can complain that the union reps (probably going to be Captains) did the deal that you are complaining about and you will have paid a percentage of your salary for the privilege.
Ask how the NATS ATCO union has improved the student member's pay and conditions over the last 10 years!
A union will not change what is being complained about here. It may be useful in certain cases but then again a good legal insurance policy would be cheaper and provide better cover!
Regards,
DFC
Then you can complain that the union reps (probably going to be Captains) did the deal that you are complaining about and you will have paid a percentage of your salary for the privilege.
Ask how the NATS ATCO union has improved the student member's pay and conditions over the last 10 years!
A union will not change what is being complained about here. It may be useful in certain cases but then again a good legal insurance policy would be cheaper and provide better cover!
Regards,
DFC
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I Am sorry to say it,i am no advocate of this managements ways and means.But the responsibility with this situation lies overwhelmingly with the majority of the pilot body who deem it permissible to accept this treatment.It has gone on too long to be blaming everyone else and pleading the moral high ground.The simple facts are that if pilots are unwilling to look after each other and bring an end to the me,me,me culture.(the culture of which the erc is the most visible manifestation,but which most other pilots in this company subscribe to).Then there is no future in this company.Accept and move on!!!(sad to say).only when it becomes truly too much to tolerate,will it then change.Market wise that will probably be too late to go elsewhere.
Change it or zip it!!!
Change it or zip it!!!
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Everything in life has to have balance. It is the nature of physics and we are living in this unbalanced planet unfortunately, complaining about every little deeds that are done to us.
Think bigger guys, tonnes of people making CPL today couldn't even dream about it 10 or 20 years ago. The whole system changed radically few years ago, so be happy.
I think it is the time for you guys to get a grip on your own future without whining on this site.
Cheers,
Skydrol
Think bigger guys, tonnes of people making CPL today couldn't even dream about it 10 or 20 years ago. The whole system changed radically few years ago, so be happy.
I think it is the time for you guys to get a grip on your own future without whining on this site.
Cheers,
Skydrol
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I would like to broaden the debate. Perhaps, play the devil's advocate, somewhat.
Let us examine other professions; be they medical, legal, engineering architecture and many more. They all have apprentices starting out at the bottom learning their profession. Many spend years & years gaining enough experience and knowledge to be approved, classified, qualified. Mostly they start on a lowly wage and work their way up. It is many years before they gain promotion and start to earn a substantial salary. I agree there is a difference in the funding of their education; some have university grants or sponorship, other are also self sponsored. Pilots are mostly self sponsored or have earned it the hard way through self improver routes such as AFI/QFI. But hearing about the enormous debts incurred by university students when they leave those institutions, perhaps they are similar to pilots. (I am assuming that the PPL costs are those spent voluntarily to pursue a hobby).
So here we have a group of young 20 year olds starting out with 200hrs and green apprentices earning over 30,000 GBP pa. Within 4 years they can be captains and earning 70,000+ at the age of 28. Wow. Look around at your mates and compare yourself. Thank your lucky stars. You joined as a vocation and now you want it to be a cash cow. If that is the case you ain't going to last the next 35 years as captain doing the same drudge week in week out. However, the bank account will look very rosey.
I've had 35.000 GBP F/O's sitting next to me and things have gone wrong. Perhaps not always in flight, and if so certainly not in the QRH. There have been pax problems over the N.Atlantic, numerous problems on the ground with everything under the sun. You ask for their opinion in the hope of educatiing them to think and decide. (After all next year it might be them sitting here). Nothing. A big ER! I even know of SFO's in the majors who are so cosy that they do not want a command. They will have to do all the work and for little extra pay, but a lot of hassle. Ouch!
So, before you start to gripe I would suggest that you consider just how fecking lucky you are to be where you want to be; have only 2 rungs on the ladder to the crock of perceived gold, and to be way ahead of your contempory apprentices in the salary stakes at the same age.
How is it that we created an atmosphere where everyone at the bottom wants a slice of the cake from the top shelf. I too was mighty irritated when I was told by some old fart of a captain that 'my time would come'. Pompous ass. Perhaps he was right after all. Perhaps green horn F/O's think they are the same as old farts. They can handle the a/c just as well on most days. But then the manure hits the air conditioning, or things get just a little feisty. That's why there are 2 pilots on the flight deck and 1 has the responsibility. And that's why he gets a bigger slice of the cake. It's the same in every profession. It's that ours seems to have a very gentle salary slope between the bottom and the top rung; most others have many steps and steeper gradient. The LoCo's have also created a case where the top rung is occupied for a significantly greater time that the bottom one. A major contrast to previous years and the majors. Because of this I'd be curious to calculate the earnings over a 40 year career between a major carrier pilot, 15 years to command, and LoCo pilot 4 years to command.
I do not agree with the way LoCo's treat their personnel. Generally they abuse the vocational aspect of the job, suck you dry and give very little incentive to make them a career. But that is your choice in the end. Sadly that is the real world. I don't agree with it, but then back to the beginning, "Devil's advocate".
Let us examine other professions; be they medical, legal, engineering architecture and many more. They all have apprentices starting out at the bottom learning their profession. Many spend years & years gaining enough experience and knowledge to be approved, classified, qualified. Mostly they start on a lowly wage and work their way up. It is many years before they gain promotion and start to earn a substantial salary. I agree there is a difference in the funding of their education; some have university grants or sponorship, other are also self sponsored. Pilots are mostly self sponsored or have earned it the hard way through self improver routes such as AFI/QFI. But hearing about the enormous debts incurred by university students when they leave those institutions, perhaps they are similar to pilots. (I am assuming that the PPL costs are those spent voluntarily to pursue a hobby).
So here we have a group of young 20 year olds starting out with 200hrs and green apprentices earning over 30,000 GBP pa. Within 4 years they can be captains and earning 70,000+ at the age of 28. Wow. Look around at your mates and compare yourself. Thank your lucky stars. You joined as a vocation and now you want it to be a cash cow. If that is the case you ain't going to last the next 35 years as captain doing the same drudge week in week out. However, the bank account will look very rosey.
I've had 35.000 GBP F/O's sitting next to me and things have gone wrong. Perhaps not always in flight, and if so certainly not in the QRH. There have been pax problems over the N.Atlantic, numerous problems on the ground with everything under the sun. You ask for their opinion in the hope of educatiing them to think and decide. (After all next year it might be them sitting here). Nothing. A big ER! I even know of SFO's in the majors who are so cosy that they do not want a command. They will have to do all the work and for little extra pay, but a lot of hassle. Ouch!
So, before you start to gripe I would suggest that you consider just how fecking lucky you are to be where you want to be; have only 2 rungs on the ladder to the crock of perceived gold, and to be way ahead of your contempory apprentices in the salary stakes at the same age.
How is it that we created an atmosphere where everyone at the bottom wants a slice of the cake from the top shelf. I too was mighty irritated when I was told by some old fart of a captain that 'my time would come'. Pompous ass. Perhaps he was right after all. Perhaps green horn F/O's think they are the same as old farts. They can handle the a/c just as well on most days. But then the manure hits the air conditioning, or things get just a little feisty. That's why there are 2 pilots on the flight deck and 1 has the responsibility. And that's why he gets a bigger slice of the cake. It's the same in every profession. It's that ours seems to have a very gentle salary slope between the bottom and the top rung; most others have many steps and steeper gradient. The LoCo's have also created a case where the top rung is occupied for a significantly greater time that the bottom one. A major contrast to previous years and the majors. Because of this I'd be curious to calculate the earnings over a 40 year career between a major carrier pilot, 15 years to command, and LoCo pilot 4 years to command.
I do not agree with the way LoCo's treat their personnel. Generally they abuse the vocational aspect of the job, suck you dry and give very little incentive to make them a career. But that is your choice in the end. Sadly that is the real world. I don't agree with it, but then back to the beginning, "Devil's advocate".
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RAT5
The professions you compare us to above tend to move on without having to start at the bottom again but for aircrew a move to many jobs means giving up on what you have gained and starting again at the bottom regardless of time in job.So while I can see your arguement I dont think it is that simple for flight crew.A 40 yr old CAPT with 7-8000 hrs could well find themselves in a huge loss position if your ideas are fully taken on board.
The professions you compare us to above tend to move on without having to start at the bottom again but for aircrew a move to many jobs means giving up on what you have gained and starting again at the bottom regardless of time in job.So while I can see your arguement I dont think it is that simple for flight crew.A 40 yr old CAPT with 7-8000 hrs could well find themselves in a huge loss position if your ideas are fully taken on board.
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Just before I left Ryanair I predicted that this situation would come along again. I didn't realise it would be so soon.
For those who do not/have not worked for Ryanair, you can't really appreciate just how devisive this company is. Last year, Ryanair attempted to fund the Captains pay rise by reducing the pay earned by Co-Pilots. And attempted to pass it off as aceptable by stating that FO's would be Captains in four years time therefore they would earn good money then.
A few points of note and they're also the reasons why I left that company. Firstly, when expansion stops and the loco market is completely saturated, how long is time to command going to be? At a guess, it would revert to the industry standard seven to ten years. That's a long time to be earning a very poor FO's salary without any other benefits such as allowances, pension, LOL insurance, uniform etc.
Secondly, do you think for one moment that a company like Ryanair will not turn their attention to reducing the costs of the left hand seat, once they've got the right hand seat crewed for free? The Captains in that company have their heads in the sand if they think for a minute they're not in MOL's cost reduction sights.
Ryanair pilots are also in the worst possible barganing position they have been in for a few years. And Ryanair Management know this and must be clapping their hands in joy.
Let us consider, no union protection, a take it or leave it approach from MOL et al which will be even more ferocious this time around. The reason why?
It's fairly simple. The only real barganing chip Ryanair pilots have is "Give us what we want or we leave". But we now have a scenario where there's nowhere else to go. TFly are merging with FCA. TCX are merging with MYT. Result, job losses (maybe) but certainly no recruitment. Easyjet have just announced that there is no more room until winter 2008. BA/Virgin/Aer Lingus recruitment isn't anywhere near the rate able to absorb a mass exodus of Ryanair guys. So the Ryanair pilots who aren't prepared to travel to the far east etc have nowhere readily available to go.
The next round of "negotiations" between Ryanair and it's pilots really is crunch time. I have no doubt the company will be even more brutal than they usually are this time around because they know there will not be a mass exodus of pilots. They'll do there utmost best to force a deal onto the pilots that will lock them into the worst possible T & C's for the foreseeable future.
And once Ryanair have acheived this, other companies will follow in order to compete. I hate to be a prophet of doom but I really fear for all of us no matter where we are. For now the front line is Ryanair. But believe me, once that line is breached (and I believe it will be) those of us sitting comfortable several miles further back will be within the range of Ryanair's artillery. And that will be in the form of job offers as our own airlines go under.
In my opinion we should all be doing everything we can to support the Ryanair pilots. Because if we don't, then the T & C's they currently "enjoy" will be ours too.
I sincerly hope the Captain's in Ryanair fully realise the enormity of the vote they're about to undertake.
For those who do not/have not worked for Ryanair, you can't really appreciate just how devisive this company is. Last year, Ryanair attempted to fund the Captains pay rise by reducing the pay earned by Co-Pilots. And attempted to pass it off as aceptable by stating that FO's would be Captains in four years time therefore they would earn good money then.
A few points of note and they're also the reasons why I left that company. Firstly, when expansion stops and the loco market is completely saturated, how long is time to command going to be? At a guess, it would revert to the industry standard seven to ten years. That's a long time to be earning a very poor FO's salary without any other benefits such as allowances, pension, LOL insurance, uniform etc.
Secondly, do you think for one moment that a company like Ryanair will not turn their attention to reducing the costs of the left hand seat, once they've got the right hand seat crewed for free? The Captains in that company have their heads in the sand if they think for a minute they're not in MOL's cost reduction sights.
Ryanair pilots are also in the worst possible barganing position they have been in for a few years. And Ryanair Management know this and must be clapping their hands in joy.
Let us consider, no union protection, a take it or leave it approach from MOL et al which will be even more ferocious this time around. The reason why?
It's fairly simple. The only real barganing chip Ryanair pilots have is "Give us what we want or we leave". But we now have a scenario where there's nowhere else to go. TFly are merging with FCA. TCX are merging with MYT. Result, job losses (maybe) but certainly no recruitment. Easyjet have just announced that there is no more room until winter 2008. BA/Virgin/Aer Lingus recruitment isn't anywhere near the rate able to absorb a mass exodus of Ryanair guys. So the Ryanair pilots who aren't prepared to travel to the far east etc have nowhere readily available to go.
The next round of "negotiations" between Ryanair and it's pilots really is crunch time. I have no doubt the company will be even more brutal than they usually are this time around because they know there will not be a mass exodus of pilots. They'll do there utmost best to force a deal onto the pilots that will lock them into the worst possible T & C's for the foreseeable future.
And once Ryanair have acheived this, other companies will follow in order to compete. I hate to be a prophet of doom but I really fear for all of us no matter where we are. For now the front line is Ryanair. But believe me, once that line is breached (and I believe it will be) those of us sitting comfortable several miles further back will be within the range of Ryanair's artillery. And that will be in the form of job offers as our own airlines go under.
In my opinion we should all be doing everything we can to support the Ryanair pilots. Because if we don't, then the T & C's they currently "enjoy" will be ours too.
I sincerly hope the Captain's in Ryanair fully realise the enormity of the vote they're about to undertake.