BA - Moving to the Right Seat

[Knee Trembler]

Hi,

I'm mid way through the BA DEP selection and, without wishing to count my chickens, am beginning to consider the reality of making the move.

At the moment I am flying left seat jet for a leasing company. Nice lifestyle, moderate workload, but pay a little below the norm and long term prospects very uncertain.

BA would be the sensible move, but I'm not sure about the long period (effectively life for me, as I am over 40) as FO.

Can anyone shed light on the culture within the company. How steep is the cockpit gradient? And would I be going to go to work every day expecting to be treated like a cadet (no disrespect intended to cadets BTW!).

Any personal experiences appreciated.

KT

[Dozza2k]

i joined BA in the RHS at 21, and was expecting to be treated, as you say, like a cadet. I wasn't. 99% of the skippers have a perfect approach to command gradiant. great people to work with.

[Knee Trembler]

Thanks Dozza, that's just what I wanted to hear .

KT

[Von Smallhausen]

Ditto. Have been in 2.5 years. There is the odd 'charachter' as you get anywhere else but 95% of the time the flt deck atmosphere is much more relaxed than in my old charter mob.

Also there's nothing like going out for a beer with your colleague in Prague/Paris/Edinburgh on successive nights as you trapse around Europe - I can honestly say I have more of a rapport with some of the skips here after a 4 day tour than I did in a year of there-and-backs with the old lot.

Don't believe all the scare stories you hear about Nigels! Like you, I was unsure but the vast majority turned out to be complete b*******s.

[Airbrake]

I was in a similar situation to you a few years ago and was fortunate to be offered a job. However, reality gradually dawned that I would eventually get bored doing long haul with 10 years+ to a command that I already had in the short haul world.
It is without doubt a good company with plenty of aircraft types and opportunities but you will be in the bottom half of seniority lists for a large percentage of your time there. It is a tough choice but what finnally swung it for me was doing the pension sums using X years at BA as Fo/Capt and X years at my current job as a Capt. The figures will only ever be approximate but will help with your decision.

[Bellerophon]

Knee Trembler

I'm probably not the right person to be replying to your post - as I am a long time Capt with BA - and you would likely be better answered by a newish F/O - but, for what they are worth, here are my observations:

• I've flown with a lot of co-pilots who have had commands in other airlines or the military, and all of them seem to have settled back easily in the RHS without experiencing (or causing!) any problems.
  
  
• On the B747, I've flown with several co-pilots who have had commands on other aircraft types in BA, and bid away for the RHS on the B747, for their own reasons.
  
  
• On another BA aircraft type I flew, around one third of the F/Os had been Captains on other BA aircraft.
  
  
• None of which suggests that there is a perceived problem with making the move from LHS to RHS, if that is what suits you.
  
  
• I'd like to think that, with the advent of more enlightened flight deck management, the command gradient is now a lot lower than in the past for any pilot, let alone one with your previous experience.
  
  
• A longhaul command may well (who knows!) be 12-15-17 years away for you, but I doubt a shorthaul command will take quite that long, and with the recent increase in mandatory retirement age to 65 (!), you will get there eventually.
  
  
• I did over 20 years to my first command, and am still glad I joined.
  
  
• I've heard many F/Os grumble about lots of things, but not often about how they were treated by their Captains!

So, whilst I doubt you will experience any particular problems in moving to the RHS in BA - in fact I don't think this will be much of a problem for you at all - I would advise you to think very carefully about the overall package, and how other factors, mainly workload and lifestyle, will change with a move to BA.

You will be working hard, and, to start with, at the bottom of the bidline, and only you can decide whether the improvement in long term job security and salary makes the move worthwhile.

I hope the remainder of the selection goes well for you, and I look forward to flying with you. Best of Luck in whatever you decide.


Regards

Bellerophon

[Knee Trembler]

Thanks to everyone for taking the trouble to reply .

Now I just have to knuckle down and get through the sim!

Best Wishes,

KT

[mjenkinsblackdog1]

I wouldnt bother with Ba.
It isnt the company it was compared to the 80s.
Final salary pension has gone.
Willie and his merry bunch of accountants are slowly Butchering it.
GO EXPAT.

[acbus1]

It isnt the company it was compared to the 80s

At least it still exists.

In comparison, failed companies are beyond butchery, don't have terribly attractive salary scales and the pension schemes are somewhat unappealing.

[ETOPS]

Knee Trembler

Just to echo my colleague Bellerophon the culture in BA is that co-pilots are actually "Captains in waiting". That's why all P2s are type rated and checked to P1 standard and all flying is "leg for leg". The teamwork that this engenders is one of the big plus points for working for BA. Cockpit relations are generally relaxed and most Captains utilise the knowledge and skills that the co-pilots bring. I actually think longhaul P2s withy previous command experience are a godsend in multi crew (heavy) situations.

You will fit in just fine..............

[Airbrake]

ETOPS, every airline in the UK works on the principle of "Captains in waiting" so BA is not unique in that aspect.
Knee Tremblers problem I suspect will hinge around life style issues and of course cash in the bank each month and pension values. Job satisfaction would be better in the LHS but this is not really about which side of the aircraft you sit on, more the whole package on offer up to retirement compared to staying put or comparing other companies.

As I mentioned earlier the loss of the final salary pension was the deal breaker for me, and I think many others in similar circumstances.

[dlav]

Could somebody please be kind enough to give a typical roster for a brand new FO (SSP) for the Airbus?

Literally just got the phone call!

[mjenkinsblackdog1]

Acbus,
Yes,it still remains thanks to 150 million from Maggie Thatcher.
The rest remains.

[Hand Solo]

There are still airlines in the UK where the FO is not permitted to taxy the aircraft, start the engines or fly non-precision approaches. Not exactly what I'd call a "captain in waiting" role.

[spoilers yellow]

....and an awful lot where the F/O cant call stop on take off to name another. or carry out the stop for that matter.

and as for example of an airbus roster, being junior you can expect to be on a blind line, this is when the company will construct your roster with work that no one else has bid for, this isnt always undesirable work.
It will probably mean working every weekend, and will be a mix of the same sort of work that any one else will get, you just won't be able to choose what it is and when you do it. I imagine you will fly around 80hrs a month and will consist of early/late 2, 3, 4 day multi sector trips all over europe in some great cities and the odd longer dsy trip. Sorry thats all a bit vague, sure a current airbus driver will help you a bit more.

[dlav]

Many thanks spoilers yellow. Any more information greatly appreciated.

Cheers

[Airbrake]

Hand Solo and Spoilers, every company has different SOPS regarding what an FO can and cannot do. I personally think a certain experience level works well. Below it you have some restrictions above it you don't. I am sure we could also have a healthy debate concerning monitored approaches.

There is more than one way to operate an aircraft and BA do not have a monopoly on good ideas and practices!

[Tandemrotor]

Had to laugh at mjenkinsblackdog1, saying BA "isn't the company it was in the 80s"!

And then saying "GO EXPAT"!

[mjenkinsblackdog1]

Tandem,
Glad you found it so funny.
DIPSTICK

[Tandemrotor]

mjenkinsblackdog1

If you 'don't earn anywhere near £100k'

And you think:

The only way to beat the system is to go either expat or get a VVIP job.

Then you know nothing about BA.

There are pilots in BA earning £200k! Not many admittedly, but comfortably exceeding £100k is not unusual.

How were those T&Cs with, "Jade Cargo".

GO EXPAT?

Now who's the DIPSTICK?