British Airways Staff Travel upgrades..
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Recover I look forward to our next meeting, as I always look forward to meeting any of my two winged buddies. You have the advantage on me I guess. If you know me then you also know that any discussion we may have in the future will not be one sided as I am not one to let you do all the talking for long. I actually had this discussion with "the guys" driving today and while they did repeat the A/C commander bit, they in fact would not even think to get involved with any cabin affairs bar very serious stuff. Hand Solo is right, I'm not trying to "Unsurp" anyone's command - I know my place. I joined this discussion because I had an opinion and a different viewpoint form most people who frequent this site, I also thought people would be face up to what goes on day to day, and be constructive and realistic. Sadly I am finding this is not the case (sigh). RECOVER I'm sure when we meet you will do the teacher and naughty schoolboy bit with me and teach me the error of my ways quoting FCO 2177 at me until you are blue in the face. But please, before you do reveal yourself be sure that you not guilty of breaking it yourself. For example todays Cap when bringing his wife on W.W. trips when he was operating, never asked for her to be upgraded but always "informed" the CSD that she was on-board had a seat in traveller He certainly never complained when she "magically" found herself in first!. Similarly have you ever been on the recieving end of it being broken, ever been upgraded by a purser of CSD?. But don't worry buddy I won't shop you to the company because work as part of a team!!!! If you want to offload me because you don't like the fact every CSD or PSR is doing this and I'm the only one to say it on this board - fine! - your the A/C commander and it's your call I'm sure nobody will dispute THAT up in the office.. .My e-mail is posted here on this thread, reveal your identity and we'll talk, lets iron out our differnces now before it ruins a "work day" for either of us. Neither of us want that buddy.. .. .Look forward the chatting to you - we'll do it over a beer in the pub if you like - I'm flexible!!
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Flaps I would love to buy you a beer!!!!. .Also sounds like you work for a great company and have some great cockpit crew. Our company has the unfortunate honour of being the one with the greatest divide between cockpit and cabin is our country (sorry but it has). Luckily my fleet is also well know for being the most friendly <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> All the cabin crew have a great relationship with our pilots, and we work and play together when we can (ooeeerrrrrrrr!!! lol). I think I can speak for all my collegues that the locking of the flight deck door while being nessecary, was a terrible blow to morale on board. I feel so sorry for you guys locked up in there, so I make an effort to make social visits - tell a few jokes on the interphone etc. To think that one of my collegues (because I see you guys as collegues!) threatens me in this way - makes my heart sink <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="rolleyes.gif" /> It also shows me how far we still have to go at B.A. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="frown.gif" /> . .. .We'll see if he e-mails me anyway! If fancy a beer!!!!. . . . <small>[ 23 March 2002, 22:51: Message edited by: Shadowpurser ]</small>
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Recover. .. .Thats the biggest load of pompous tosh that I have heard in a long time. It is crew with your attitude that give BA a bad name. . .. .Shadowpurser and flapsforty are the ones talking sense here - if all you can do is spout FCO's and get very insulting I suggest you have the old chip removed and get a life. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="cool.gif" />
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I have to say this is an intriguing thread.. .But from my point of view as an Executive Club SLF would one of you kind people please tell me who I have to talk to to request the possibility of an upgrade?. .Is it -. .1 Check in - probably not. .2 Staff at final ticket/passport check before boarding . .(see - I don't even know the proper name for this part of the process) - or . .3 cabin crew after I actually board. .AND at what time should I board. .as soon as possible. .middling or. .as late as possible?. .Many thanks
Blimey, getting a bit heated here I think. I am a bmi Captain (not the one in question I might add) and have had the pleasure of an upgrade to club quite a few times with BA and very nice it was to. I do not expect it and would certainly expect to be behind ANY BA staff member in the pecking order, I can assure you that you would be behind any bmi staff on our aircraft and who would expect otherwise?.. .. .The way I see it staff travel is one big co-op, we all need each other to make it work. I have spent years taking BA cabin crew and pilots on the jumpseat when they are trying to get to work at LHR or home after a trip and I am very happy to do it. Likewise I (and other family members) have been well looked after by BA staff. At the moment we can't take other airlines staff on the flightdeck but hopefully it will change in the future, managed to get a BA staff member on a cabin crew jumpseat the other day though.. .. .Lets keep it friendly folks!.
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Steady on Mr Quidnunc - before you know where you are you'll be suggesting staff should pay for upgrades! (heaven forbid). .My post was in response to the thoughts in Shadowpurser's post number 2 on page 1 of this thread - . .'Incidently I also like to upgrade our Executive club card holders as well if possible not just staff as they are the ones paying "propper money" on a regular basis, and I for one want them coming back more often.'. .Yes well that's me there.... . .so I still would like to know how I find the 'person with the power'. .Cheers. .Expressman
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If so called "other airline staff" think they should be upgraded...then they should mentioned same to their OWN interline office....and not make a fool of themselves in front of others.
If their "own" airline does not want to pay for the privilege then...tough beans. Our guys travel business class because we pay for them to do so...and not discounted either.
If their "own" airline does not want to pay for the privilege then...tough beans. Our guys travel business class because we pay for them to do so...and not discounted either.
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I've been upgraded by both BA and Virgin when on staff travel. If I could ever help out BA or Virgin staff, give them a jumpseat or upgrade them, I'm only too happy. If we dont all look after each other who will? What goes around comes around.
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Not wanting to be left behind recently, I paid full fare for my tickets to Oz. A simple introduction was made, with Company ID card, not BA by the way, to the Purser/CDC on entering the aircraft each time. On all four sectors I was told to wait under the stairs. Some time later I was led to a Club seat, indeed, on one occasion to First! (It may just have helped them load another passenger into economy/coach!)
The thinking was, it seems, that having paid full fare as an airline pilot, I was very probably slightly mad and in need of some treatment, lay back, relax and drink this, type of treatment!
As for the rights and wrongs of the Purser using his discretion to upgrade pax, even if this is contrary to the letter of the FCN, I have to say that before long none of us will have any discretion to decide anything in the near future.
I say, long may it last!
The thinking was, it seems, that having paid full fare as an airline pilot, I was very probably slightly mad and in need of some treatment, lay back, relax and drink this, type of treatment!
As for the rights and wrongs of the Purser using his discretion to upgrade pax, even if this is contrary to the letter of the FCN, I have to say that before long none of us will have any discretion to decide anything in the near future.
I say, long may it last!
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Well it's good to see some more positive comments about the unwritten rules. I seem to have caused quite a stir, and after Recover threatening me with my job I decided not to post any more on this site. However after doing my own straw poll at work, and the rest of the pilot community branding him "AN ARSE!!!" I decided I would not go so quietly. Recover has still not e-mailed me or confronted me at work - so I must assume that he must be guilty of manipulating the system or recieving treatment outside of rules as well. I suspected as much and I think the old saying "peolpe in glass houses shouldn't throw stones" applies. I'm still upgrading staff/friends/pilots wives etc. Did so the other day for a 747 Cap and his wife to MAD who said it was the best service he'd had on ANY B.A. flight in years and gave me his business card and said if ever I needed a favour etc etc etc. I stand by my service and my collegues!!! It's all you've got sometimes!!!
Last edited by Shadowpurser; 12th Apr 2002 at 23:03.
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Shadow,
I too decided not to post any more comments, for 2 reasons. Firstly, we were starting go ‘off thread’ and secondly, because my concerns revolve more around your personal conduct, rather than that of Pursers and CSDs upgrading.
Those that know me will vouch for the fact that I am pragmatic and reasonable in my approach to almost all activities on my flights, this includes the ever thorny subject of Staff Travel. I won’t let people abuse or be abused by it and so I do take an interest. I’m sorry if taking an interest in the activities on my aircraft is something new to you or the pilots you allegedly questioned, but I reckon it’s part of being a Captain. My responsibility does not stop at our metal shield. I’m more than happy to delegate certain responsibilities to the SCCM (of course some of these are taken as read) and whereas I do not micro-manage, I do like to know what’s going on and expect to be kept informed , rather than in the dark (all quite reasonable I would think). That having been said; you are incorrect in the conclusions you draw from my silence regarding upgrades. Thus far I have been in the fortunate position of not being ‘guilty of manipulating the system’. I have been upgraded, but only because of either my seat priority when using my bookable tickets or because Traveller has been full and staff are upgraded ahead of commercial passengers. I am NOT holier than thou. This does NOT mean that I would refuse an upgrade and it certainly does NOT mean I would ever try and prevent staff being upgraded. Someone else pointed out that we have to look after each other. I genuinely believe and practice this philosophy.
My heated post, rather than a reaction to your views on upgrading, was a result of your comments, one of which I quoted in my response. On the one hand you say that you are not trying to usurp anyone’s authority and yet you write differently: “Lets clear something up, as the in charge crew member I can upgrade who I want”. This is just one of many confrontational examples in which you not only over-step your authority, but in which you are clearly wrong, by the letter of the book but, more importantly, in your perception of your position on the aircraft. The quotation of yours that made me see red was the one I used in my message and I challenge anyone to find a better example of usurping authority. You basically said that if I told you to do something ie upgrade a particular person then you would tell me “where to go”. It is extremely unlikely that I would ever tell someone to do something, but it may be I have to for a very good reason and might, perhaps, be constrained by time. I would naturally try and back up such an ‘order’ with an explanation when I was able to. Now, for some reason, you believe your position as a Purser gives you the right to tell me “where to go”. I wonder why that would anger me, both personally and in my position as the aircraft Captain and lead to the post I made? I never threatened your job, but I certainly stand by the fact that you would no longer form part of my crew on that flight. It is an extreme and something I would not do lightly, but giving your Captain 2 fingers is pretty good usurping in my book, never mind what FCOs say. As I said, it is very unlikely that I would find myself in the position of telling you to do something, but if I did I would not expect the response you wrote of. This is what I referred to when I pointed out that your position is not quite as lofty as you believe. What will it be next? “Prepare the cabin for an emergency landing”, “No. I’m the Purser and I decide what sort of cabin preparations to make”.
Shadow, you and I both know how well we all work as a great team at EoG (or whatever we’re called this week). The likes of Flaps 40 probably wouldn’t think it after my previous missive, but I genuinely believe we have the best bunch in the whole BA network. Likewise, I have always got on with all the crew (both sides of the barricade) and have never “had to ensure they're not drinking alone in the bar for the rest of their career”. For me to write such an emotional message is totally out of character but it was caused by your posts. Having read through them several times now, I know that I’m not misinterpreting anything. Perhaps you didn’t say things the way you wanted them to sound, I don’t know. But and it’s a BIG one, if you really believe you can say and do the things you purport then I advise extreme caution. One day someone will crash down on you like a ton(ne) of bricks……and you know BA Management; all those glowing reports from Capt X going to MAD etc will count for nought.
I knew this would go way off-thread, so back to you guys for your thoughts on the ever-abusable and totally corruptible subject; that’s staff upgrades in case you missed it.
I too decided not to post any more comments, for 2 reasons. Firstly, we were starting go ‘off thread’ and secondly, because my concerns revolve more around your personal conduct, rather than that of Pursers and CSDs upgrading.
Those that know me will vouch for the fact that I am pragmatic and reasonable in my approach to almost all activities on my flights, this includes the ever thorny subject of Staff Travel. I won’t let people abuse or be abused by it and so I do take an interest. I’m sorry if taking an interest in the activities on my aircraft is something new to you or the pilots you allegedly questioned, but I reckon it’s part of being a Captain. My responsibility does not stop at our metal shield. I’m more than happy to delegate certain responsibilities to the SCCM (of course some of these are taken as read) and whereas I do not micro-manage, I do like to know what’s going on and expect to be kept informed , rather than in the dark (all quite reasonable I would think). That having been said; you are incorrect in the conclusions you draw from my silence regarding upgrades. Thus far I have been in the fortunate position of not being ‘guilty of manipulating the system’. I have been upgraded, but only because of either my seat priority when using my bookable tickets or because Traveller has been full and staff are upgraded ahead of commercial passengers. I am NOT holier than thou. This does NOT mean that I would refuse an upgrade and it certainly does NOT mean I would ever try and prevent staff being upgraded. Someone else pointed out that we have to look after each other. I genuinely believe and practice this philosophy.
My heated post, rather than a reaction to your views on upgrading, was a result of your comments, one of which I quoted in my response. On the one hand you say that you are not trying to usurp anyone’s authority and yet you write differently: “Lets clear something up, as the in charge crew member I can upgrade who I want”. This is just one of many confrontational examples in which you not only over-step your authority, but in which you are clearly wrong, by the letter of the book but, more importantly, in your perception of your position on the aircraft. The quotation of yours that made me see red was the one I used in my message and I challenge anyone to find a better example of usurping authority. You basically said that if I told you to do something ie upgrade a particular person then you would tell me “where to go”. It is extremely unlikely that I would ever tell someone to do something, but it may be I have to for a very good reason and might, perhaps, be constrained by time. I would naturally try and back up such an ‘order’ with an explanation when I was able to. Now, for some reason, you believe your position as a Purser gives you the right to tell me “where to go”. I wonder why that would anger me, both personally and in my position as the aircraft Captain and lead to the post I made? I never threatened your job, but I certainly stand by the fact that you would no longer form part of my crew on that flight. It is an extreme and something I would not do lightly, but giving your Captain 2 fingers is pretty good usurping in my book, never mind what FCOs say. As I said, it is very unlikely that I would find myself in the position of telling you to do something, but if I did I would not expect the response you wrote of. This is what I referred to when I pointed out that your position is not quite as lofty as you believe. What will it be next? “Prepare the cabin for an emergency landing”, “No. I’m the Purser and I decide what sort of cabin preparations to make”.
Shadow, you and I both know how well we all work as a great team at EoG (or whatever we’re called this week). The likes of Flaps 40 probably wouldn’t think it after my previous missive, but I genuinely believe we have the best bunch in the whole BA network. Likewise, I have always got on with all the crew (both sides of the barricade) and have never “had to ensure they're not drinking alone in the bar for the rest of their career”. For me to write such an emotional message is totally out of character but it was caused by your posts. Having read through them several times now, I know that I’m not misinterpreting anything. Perhaps you didn’t say things the way you wanted them to sound, I don’t know. But and it’s a BIG one, if you really believe you can say and do the things you purport then I advise extreme caution. One day someone will crash down on you like a ton(ne) of bricks……and you know BA Management; all those glowing reports from Capt X going to MAD etc will count for nought.
I knew this would go way off-thread, so back to you guys for your thoughts on the ever-abusable and totally corruptible subject; that’s staff upgrades in case you missed it.
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Ok - lets finish this here!!!!
Firstly neutral99 - if you read the rest of this thread carefully you'll find my better half is in fact a first officer and if I if I had a chip on my shoulder against pilots I can assure you she would kick me swiftly into touch - also she'd probably withdraw certain "privilages" that no man should have withdrawn. Your right about how well these poffesionals are trained, and that they deserve every pound they earn. I admire them all for what they can do - I would have liked to become a pilot myself however my eyesight isn't up to standard. Also read my post in the cabin crew forum "A Plea to all C/C - F/A's! Please read" if you or anyone else are still in any doubt of my attitude towards pilots that should clear it up!!!
Secondly Recover some of the things I've said seem to have been taken the wrong way. I wouldn't tell a pilot "where to go" in those words, that was bravdo on my part, but also, I trully think I would never be put in that position at EFG anyway because we don't work like that! We all get along, we all have a great time, I love the people, and I love working there.
Like I said I know my role and I know the Cap is in charge. I certainly know PSR at EFG is not lofty and I have do dellusions of grandure!!! Considering I am being paid less than my more junior collegues who have transferred to the "golden runways" at the moment I also know where I stand in the greater scheme of things at B.A. as well (Pretty much nowhere!!). But that's another story and not why I do the job, and not what we're talking about here.
The thread subject is clear and I did offer to chat about this off of this site to resolve our differences. Hopefully we can get together soon downroute and chat about this over a few beers?
I upgrade people because I'm trying to improve a few peoples days, I hate to see catering go to waste, and we might just get a few pull paying pax coming back for more. Whatever YOU want me to do LET ME KNOW. I certainly don't want to upset you if it matters that much to you, after all your in charge (not being sarcastic there - just honest).
If I have to face the "spanish inquisition" and face the horrors of "the comfy chair" that's my problem. I think I've seen enough posts on this site to see what people think of B.A. management I'm not much different. I care about the PAX paying my wages simple as that!
Lets leave it there (EVERYONE!!!!). Look forward to seeing you on-line.
Back to "Staff travel upgrades" LOL!!!!!!
Here's a picture of everyones favourite non-executive director anyway to lighten the mood!!!
Firstly neutral99 - if you read the rest of this thread carefully you'll find my better half is in fact a first officer and if I if I had a chip on my shoulder against pilots I can assure you she would kick me swiftly into touch - also she'd probably withdraw certain "privilages" that no man should have withdrawn. Your right about how well these poffesionals are trained, and that they deserve every pound they earn. I admire them all for what they can do - I would have liked to become a pilot myself however my eyesight isn't up to standard. Also read my post in the cabin crew forum "A Plea to all C/C - F/A's! Please read" if you or anyone else are still in any doubt of my attitude towards pilots that should clear it up!!!
Secondly Recover some of the things I've said seem to have been taken the wrong way. I wouldn't tell a pilot "where to go" in those words, that was bravdo on my part, but also, I trully think I would never be put in that position at EFG anyway because we don't work like that! We all get along, we all have a great time, I love the people, and I love working there.
Like I said I know my role and I know the Cap is in charge. I certainly know PSR at EFG is not lofty and I have do dellusions of grandure!!! Considering I am being paid less than my more junior collegues who have transferred to the "golden runways" at the moment I also know where I stand in the greater scheme of things at B.A. as well (Pretty much nowhere!!). But that's another story and not why I do the job, and not what we're talking about here.
The thread subject is clear and I did offer to chat about this off of this site to resolve our differences. Hopefully we can get together soon downroute and chat about this over a few beers?
I upgrade people because I'm trying to improve a few peoples days, I hate to see catering go to waste, and we might just get a few pull paying pax coming back for more. Whatever YOU want me to do LET ME KNOW. I certainly don't want to upset you if it matters that much to you, after all your in charge (not being sarcastic there - just honest).
If I have to face the "spanish inquisition" and face the horrors of "the comfy chair" that's my problem. I think I've seen enough posts on this site to see what people think of B.A. management I'm not much different. I care about the PAX paying my wages simple as that!
Lets leave it there (EVERYONE!!!!). Look forward to seeing you on-line.
Back to "Staff travel upgrades" LOL!!!!!!
Here's a picture of everyones favourite non-executive director anyway to lighten the mood!!!
Last edited by Shadowpurser; 14th Apr 2002 at 20:20.
