Aer Arann
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Aer Arann
Hi everyone!
Currently flying the ATR somewhere in Europe, but flying too little (only about 35 hours a month...), I'd like to move on to a "busier" operator.
Aer Arann seems ideal... But I'd like to have some feedback from current Aer Arann pilots: terms and conditions, pros and cons of the various bases, average number of hours flown each month and average salary after tax (F/O with a frozen ATPL), crew morale...
Thanks a million for your help!
WW.
Currently flying the ATR somewhere in Europe, but flying too little (only about 35 hours a month...), I'd like to move on to a "busier" operator.
Aer Arann seems ideal... But I'd like to have some feedback from current Aer Arann pilots: terms and conditions, pros and cons of the various bases, average number of hours flown each month and average salary after tax (F/O with a frozen ATPL), crew morale...
Thanks a million for your help!
WW.
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Used to be a very nice company to work for. Gone the opposite way in the last few years. Be prepared to work up to 100 hours if you are a captain a month and 60-80 if an FO. Hope your thick skinned as the company has an operations staff that will try and make decisions on your behalf which far exceed their job description. The roster is embarrasing, a fixed roster was brought in for one month and then abolished. Be prepared to work up to the very maximum number of hours per month with minimum rest and minimum days off.
Staff turnover is rediciously high and there are never enough captains and never will be. Unless you are really stuck and need to build hours quick then I suggest you stay well clear. You will only end up regretting it. 42 ground handling staff laid off recently to save some money on paper. The company is not doing as well as it makes out. There are unfortunately too many people in the company with titles, many of whom have been replaced as they are not up to the job, and then moved sideways only to be given a new title. It's costing the company a fortune. You will be promised the sun, moon and stars in your interview. An example of staff turnover is in one base was there were 12 or 13 captains based in a particular place last january. Today there is only one of those left. Most left not as a result of moving on to better things, only to move to get a more stable life and not be treated like a fool. I'm sorry to paint such a negative picture of the place. Like I said it was once a really good airline. I just hope it will be here in a few years. I along with some of my colleagues moved on a few months ago and looking back I should have done it a couple of years ago. Don't get me wrong there are some very good guys still in the company.
Staff turnover is rediciously high and there are never enough captains and never will be. Unless you are really stuck and need to build hours quick then I suggest you stay well clear. You will only end up regretting it. 42 ground handling staff laid off recently to save some money on paper. The company is not doing as well as it makes out. There are unfortunately too many people in the company with titles, many of whom have been replaced as they are not up to the job, and then moved sideways only to be given a new title. It's costing the company a fortune. You will be promised the sun, moon and stars in your interview. An example of staff turnover is in one base was there were 12 or 13 captains based in a particular place last january. Today there is only one of those left. Most left not as a result of moving on to better things, only to move to get a more stable life and not be treated like a fool. I'm sorry to paint such a negative picture of the place. Like I said it was once a really good airline. I just hope it will be here in a few years. I along with some of my colleagues moved on a few months ago and looking back I should have done it a couple of years ago. Don't get me wrong there are some very good guys still in the company.
Last edited by Flightlevel540; 3rd Jun 2007 at 11:24. Reason: spelling mistake
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I do fly for Aer Arann and wish I could refute what FL450 & SpanwiseGlow have said. Unfortunately, they are both spot on. The attitude to all staff, apart from the few in the ex-Transaer clique, is appalling. The rostering is not only random and unfair, but is used as a tool to keep pilots in line. Dare to object to a series of duties and you can find yourself on a month of 6 am reports. The chief pilot will not, under any circumstance, support a decision by a captain which is contrary to the wishes of the operations department.
A good indication of working conditions is the retention rate, or otherwise, of staff. What FL450 said regarding the shortage of captains is an understatement. Captains are leaving all bases to find any other employment. This is far above the attrition rate that is normal in regional turboprop operations. What happens when they are short of captains ? The workload on those remaining increases, and all sorts of tricks are found to get around FTLs. The beatings will continue until morale improves.
I should stop now, I have to fly in the morning. I joined the company to get the base I wanted and because I thought I could enjoy a better lifestyle than the Ryanair ratrace. My mistake.
Some of the actual info you asked for now :
Bases : Go for Dublin, as an FO you wont be worked as hard as Galway or Cork.
Hours flown : Dublin FO 50/month. Dublin Capt 80/month. Cork/Galway capt & FO 80 – 100 / month.
Avge Salary after Tax FO : Eur 2600 / month
Crew Morale : A good bunch of guys & gals, but morale is low and falling rapidly.
A good indication of working conditions is the retention rate, or otherwise, of staff. What FL450 said regarding the shortage of captains is an understatement. Captains are leaving all bases to find any other employment. This is far above the attrition rate that is normal in regional turboprop operations. What happens when they are short of captains ? The workload on those remaining increases, and all sorts of tricks are found to get around FTLs. The beatings will continue until morale improves.
I should stop now, I have to fly in the morning. I joined the company to get the base I wanted and because I thought I could enjoy a better lifestyle than the Ryanair ratrace. My mistake.
Some of the actual info you asked for now :
Bases : Go for Dublin, as an FO you wont be worked as hard as Galway or Cork.
Hours flown : Dublin FO 50/month. Dublin Capt 80/month. Cork/Galway capt & FO 80 – 100 / month.
Avge Salary after Tax FO : Eur 2600 / month
Crew Morale : A good bunch of guys & gals, but morale is low and falling rapidly.
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It's very rare on a forum on Pprune that every poster agrees with each other. On this occasion however they are spot on. Everything said in the previous post is entirely accurate.
"42 ground handling staff laid off recently to save some money on paper"
Have you seen the new company video on the website promoting the new aircraft and the "personal touch" the company offers. The most ironic thing about it is the fact that the majority of the employees featured on it have now been let go by the company to pay for this aircraft!!!
Unless you are in need of a job due financial reasons I would look elsewhere. If on the other hand:
1. You enjoy being treated like an idiot.
2. You like your work so much you don't enjoy any days off.
If you answered yes to any of these then come on in. I was one of the people that moved onto another ATR company purely because of the way the company was treating it's staff. I now enjoy a stable roster, plenty of time off and believe it or not my experience and decision making is actually taken seriously.
"42 ground handling staff laid off recently to save some money on paper"
Have you seen the new company video on the website promoting the new aircraft and the "personal touch" the company offers. The most ironic thing about it is the fact that the majority of the employees featured on it have now been let go by the company to pay for this aircraft!!!
Unless you are in need of a job due financial reasons I would look elsewhere. If on the other hand:
1. You enjoy being treated like an idiot.
2. You like your work so much you don't enjoy any days off.
If you answered yes to any of these then come on in. I was one of the people that moved onto another ATR company purely because of the way the company was treating it's staff. I now enjoy a stable roster, plenty of time off and believe it or not my experience and decision making is actually taken seriously.
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Dear God, is there no airline left that's good to work for? .
Just as I was about to send an application to them.
Maybe it's time for PPRuNe to set up an airline. PPRuNe airways for pilots by pilots for profit.
Just as I was about to send an application to them. Maybe it's time for PPRuNe to set up an airline. PPRuNe airways for pilots by pilots for profit.
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Yes indeed here we go into another thread hijacked by it descending into a bitching contest between different parties.
In direct response to wingedwilliam you make a statement saying how difficult it is to get reliable information from pprune. I think you may wish to look beyond your hazed glasses. Yes for me anyway it is my first post under this username. Why, well put quite simply should I post under my usual name my real identity would be easily recongnised. For me I stand by my comments. Yes I was an employee of the company and I think my post was a balanced opinion based on my experiences there. I would not go quite as far as some of the other posters buy I certainly stand by my comments about the roster and the operations department.
You came on here looking for advice. It took a number of days for someone to respond to you and I felt it appropriate to do so. I don't really understand why you did so as you obviously are disregarding the comments made by other people. I would have offered you infomation via PM and perhaps put you in touch with some people in the company to see how it is today. Like I said I moved on some time ago. As you obviously don't appreciate the information given here then this offer is withdrawn.
I also see you are an FO. Looking through some of your previous posts it shows you weren't successful in the past with Aer Arann. I also said that the company was short of captains and not FO's. I made my opinions known to you based on the information given. I said you may regret coming here. I assume you are not local and I don't know your circumstances in regards to your family, possible children, wife etc.
There are many good points about the company as well.
1 Very good flying
2 Good routes
3 Fantastic workforce.
And just to finish off, looking through Banons profile, you will also see that he dosen't work for the company.
If you get called and are successful then I wish you the best of luck.
In direct response to wingedwilliam you make a statement saying how difficult it is to get reliable information from pprune. I think you may wish to look beyond your hazed glasses. Yes for me anyway it is my first post under this username. Why, well put quite simply should I post under my usual name my real identity would be easily recongnised. For me I stand by my comments. Yes I was an employee of the company and I think my post was a balanced opinion based on my experiences there. I would not go quite as far as some of the other posters buy I certainly stand by my comments about the roster and the operations department.
You came on here looking for advice. It took a number of days for someone to respond to you and I felt it appropriate to do so. I don't really understand why you did so as you obviously are disregarding the comments made by other people. I would have offered you infomation via PM and perhaps put you in touch with some people in the company to see how it is today. Like I said I moved on some time ago. As you obviously don't appreciate the information given here then this offer is withdrawn.
I also see you are an FO. Looking through some of your previous posts it shows you weren't successful in the past with Aer Arann. I also said that the company was short of captains and not FO's. I made my opinions known to you based on the information given. I said you may regret coming here. I assume you are not local and I don't know your circumstances in regards to your family, possible children, wife etc.
There are many good points about the company as well.
1 Very good flying
2 Good routes
3 Fantastic workforce.
And just to finish off, looking through Banons profile, you will also see that he dosen't work for the company.
If you get called and are successful then I wish you the best of luck.
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If you want to be treated with respect, this is not the airline to work for.
If you want to build some turbine time and/or command time quickly, it definitely is the right place for you.
If you want to build some turbine time and/or command time quickly, it definitely is the right place for you.
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Aer Arann Recruitment
Hi all I was talking to a guy there recently who was offered a place with Aer Arann but they wanted 25K for the type rating
!!! Can anyone out there verify this for me,, Surely if the company is that bad to work for you wouldn’t find many new F/O’s heading that way,, especially when Ryanair is only 3 grand dearer,,, still not a bad place for a newbie to park his ass for 12 months or so if he got it for free
,, id rather be up the 28K,, and for that your not exactly flying for mother Teresa either
,,, any and all thoughts, comments welcome,, Cheers
!!! Can anyone out there verify this for me,, Surely if the company is that bad to work for you wouldn’t find many new F/O’s heading that way,, especially when Ryanair is only 3 grand dearer,,, still not a bad place for a newbie to park his ass for 12 months or so if he got it for free,, id rather be up the 28K,, and for that your not exactly flying for mother Teresa either,,, any and all thoughts, comments welcome,, Cheers
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The bad thing is you will get people going in as FO's as it is a means to pay their training bills esp. since PTC charges 99,000 euro for a 250 fatpl. People will always feed these airlines as I say 1. to pay the bills and 2. cos I don't know anyone who has the money to hold off for that miracle job offer. Keep all their licences current, keep flying to build hours, so they aren't still a 250 fatpl 2 years later, when the interview comes and the question is asked So Mr........... you finished training 2 years ago and have amassed how many hours????? 
I would have to take a job with these sort of airlines for those reasons when I qualify.
And I step off me soap box......
I would have to take a job with these sort of airlines for those reasons when I qualify.
And I step off me soap box......
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Appreciate
I appreciate your inputs.
Can somebody comment on how is the Crew Morale and rostering issues at the moment?
I think I can join as a Captain. I would love to know more about the present situation.
Hope to hear something more.
Regards,
J3
Can somebody comment on how is the Crew Morale and rostering issues at the moment?
I think I can join as a Captain. I would love to know more about the present situation.
Hope to hear something more.
Regards,
J3
