ryanairs management
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Me thinks the FR propaganda machine is again at work ofuscating, twisting and muddling the argument.
A poster with a total of 9 posts (5 of them in this bery thread) shouting "boring boring boring... nobody is going to reply" well you are wrong buddy. The general decline of terms and conditions is anything but boring and plenty of people are very interested. The rot in FR has to be stopped or it will continue to spread across the industry.
Ryanair is at the very bottom of the list of potential employers for 95% of EXPERIENCED jet pilots. That is a fact. Nothing to do with the money they pay but with the fact that they treat people like dirt.
Alibaba I am with you
A poster with a total of 9 posts (5 of them in this bery thread) shouting "boring boring boring... nobody is going to reply" well you are wrong buddy. The general decline of terms and conditions is anything but boring and plenty of people are very interested. The rot in FR has to be stopped or it will continue to spread across the industry.
Ryanair is at the very bottom of the list of potential employers for 95% of EXPERIENCED jet pilots. That is a fact. Nothing to do with the money they pay but with the fact that they treat people like dirt.
Alibaba I am with you
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I'm not sure in which direction Calypso is pointing his finger but rest assured that I do not, and never have, been employed by FR.
I have, however, been involved with FR as their GH agent and been involved when the option to re-tender for their business was not exercised.
This was a hard decision as it meant jobs & livelihoods for a lot of dedicated and professional individuals.
Why take such a decision?
FR were driving in a direction that we did not want to go. Mainly, changing contract expectations at will and enforcing restrictions that diminished operating efficiencies.
As a supplier you have a choice. Deal with the customers demands or not.
If you do not believe that the whole package is workable and beneficial then again there is a choice. Deal with it or walk away.
No moaning, no whinging, just a lot of sleepless nights trying to do the right thing for the business as a whole.
I have, however, been involved with FR as their GH agent and been involved when the option to re-tender for their business was not exercised.
This was a hard decision as it meant jobs & livelihoods for a lot of dedicated and professional individuals.
Why take such a decision?
FR were driving in a direction that we did not want to go. Mainly, changing contract expectations at will and enforcing restrictions that diminished operating efficiencies.
As a supplier you have a choice. Deal with the customers demands or not.
If you do not believe that the whole package is workable and beneficial then again there is a choice. Deal with it or walk away.
No moaning, no whinging, just a lot of sleepless nights trying to do the right thing for the business as a whole.
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AliBaba, you have attempted to keep an even temper in your replies, despite the goading language of several respondents. Well done sir.
However - I can see this thread going the way of all other FR threads (deterioration into mutual slagging followed by being locked). This happens mainly because the moderators - baffilingly - permit one poster to use a perjorative, and then react only against anyone who takes offense!
The slide has started now with the perjorative language used by 'Ballsout'.
Lets see the reaction of the Mods.
I hope you told them to 'Fark Off' just as their boss told the EU transport commissioner when she asked him to hand back money!
However - I can see this thread going the way of all other FR threads (deterioration into mutual slagging followed by being locked). This happens mainly because the moderators - baffilingly - permit one poster to use a perjorative, and then react only against anyone who takes offense!
The slide has started now with the perjorative language used by 'Ballsout'.
Lets see the reaction of the Mods.
Quote: Spamcan Driver: Oh yeah I used to work for FR for two years and really enjoyed it for the first year, thought it was great! Until I got told that they had decided that I was given the wrong contract when I had joined, and would have to pay back all the money (quite a few grands worth) they said I had been overpaid!
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I hope you told them to 'Fark Off' just as their boss told the EU transport commissioner when she asked him to hand back money!
they told me it was coming out of my sector cheque which It did! 
And if I didnt like it then I could **** off somewhere else! 
So I did and in a way im quite glad it happened as it gave me the motivation I needed to prepare and pass the selection of my current employer!And this was no isolated incident aswell happened to atleast a few other guys that I know of in STN
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And so it happens. The apologists, the misguided and the plain f**kin stupid who voted for a pay reduction will get their wish. As always however, the rest suffer the pain that the minority muppets inflict upon us.
To all the apologists: I accept you may be happy. But let's be very clear, you're happy at a level that has never been seen before in commerical aviation. Remember at all times that the level that makes you happy is a remuneration level lower than a medium jet pilot in Ireland and the UK has ever had to endure before. You may be willing to line mickos pocket at the expense of your own, thats your choice, but you do not have the right to criticise those that would rather that they, rather than micko enjoy the fruits of their labour.
Every ryr pilot has a choice to make as to whose pocket they want to line: either their own or mickos. It's that simple. Remember well: every "deal" offered by ryr means a reduction in your earnings, either now or later. Why? Because ryr will never offer more money. You may short term win as part of their strategic game, but long term you're f**ked.
All you cowards, flying club pilots, apologists, etc, well done. welcome to a life of poverty. I hope you learn to eat your 4 bars as a good nutritional meal, cos that's all you're gonna have when mciko is finished with the industry. You can't even begin to conceive how poor you're gonna be in a few years, you stupid f**kers.
To all you non-ryr pilots: I aplogise for what we've done. And I apologise for what we will continue to do because we are a group of craven cowards.
To all the apologists: I accept you may be happy. But let's be very clear, you're happy at a level that has never been seen before in commerical aviation. Remember at all times that the level that makes you happy is a remuneration level lower than a medium jet pilot in Ireland and the UK has ever had to endure before. You may be willing to line mickos pocket at the expense of your own, thats your choice, but you do not have the right to criticise those that would rather that they, rather than micko enjoy the fruits of their labour.
Every ryr pilot has a choice to make as to whose pocket they want to line: either their own or mickos. It's that simple. Remember well: every "deal" offered by ryr means a reduction in your earnings, either now or later. Why? Because ryr will never offer more money. You may short term win as part of their strategic game, but long term you're f**ked.
All you cowards, flying club pilots, apologists, etc, well done. welcome to a life of poverty. I hope you learn to eat your 4 bars as a good nutritional meal, cos that's all you're gonna have when mciko is finished with the industry. You can't even begin to conceive how poor you're gonna be in a few years, you stupid f**kers.
To all you non-ryr pilots: I aplogise for what we've done. And I apologise for what we will continue to do because we are a group of craven cowards.
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jesus Christ mate, i woke up this morning as i do every morning full of sunshine [full of sh.t some might say] ,happy smiling , another lovly day ,
Then i read camel hairs post , and i went back to bed and tried to suffocate myself, that didn't work, tried to drown myself in the bath, all the knifes in the kitchen are blunt, theirs no rope in the house when you want it, my heads to big to fit into the lawn mower, i don't have a gas cooker. so i 've given up.
So i have decided to go to town and spend some money from my good ole job that pays me well. with a good stable roster, that puts me in my own bed every night,
Then i read camel hairs post , and i went back to bed and tried to suffocate myself, that didn't work, tried to drown myself in the bath, all the knifes in the kitchen are blunt, theirs no rope in the house when you want it, my heads to big to fit into the lawn mower, i don't have a gas cooker. so i 've given up.
So i have decided to go to town and spend some money from my good ole job that pays me well. with a good stable roster, that puts me in my own bed every night,
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CamelhAir
Could you help me out here?
On the latest deal a UK Captain would earn around 5k net on average per month and work a very stable if occasionally tough 5 on 4 off roster.
If you are a relatively experienced (Lets say 5000hrs+ total and 1000hrs+ P1 737) Captain and looking for a job in the UK what are the options?
Don't need your opinions about Ryanair- just name the options!
Could you help me out here?
On the latest deal a UK Captain would earn around 5k net on average per month and work a very stable if occasionally tough 5 on 4 off roster.
If you are a relatively experienced (Lets say 5000hrs+ total and 1000hrs+ P1 737) Captain and looking for a job in the UK what are the options?
Don't need your opinions about Ryanair- just name the options!
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Morning all.What a beautiful day!Worrying days for management ahead.Looks like they are all on here trying to stem the tide.Sorry chaps,time and tide waits for no man.
We are here,you know that!Where? right behind you.
HA HA HA!
We are here,you know that!Where? right behind you.
HA HA HA!
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Good morning to you stanley.
(1)Certainly sir!It's easy.There is only one option.The pilots join a pilots association and fight together for better pay and conditions.I can also provide you with the flip side of that coin,should you wish.The one where we continue to work for ever decreasing terms and conditions in a time of great profit making and when the downturn comes and there are no jobs for people to go elsewhere.Then there is no protection in place.Watch what is remaining of our terms and conditions dissappear down the great vortex of the **** pan.the only exit strategy that one will then have is lose their licence or retire,both of which means you no longer have two brass farthings to rub together.60 years old,from a few grand to zero overnight.medical loss of licence,compound an illness or injury with the fact you now have not a pot to piss in.All very funny,do you not think? Look at the detail and for those of you who wish not to look at your bleak future,you are being lined up for the hiding of your lives.Do not say you were not warned,the point of no return is this summer.No union = no future!
(2)Dear stanley,i did not specifically mention your name as management.I wonder why you would assume i did?
Good Luck i do not need,but i know a group of suckers who soon will.Many thanks for your best wishes anyhow.God bless you!
(1)Certainly sir!It's easy.There is only one option.The pilots join a pilots association and fight together for better pay and conditions.I can also provide you with the flip side of that coin,should you wish.The one where we continue to work for ever decreasing terms and conditions in a time of great profit making and when the downturn comes and there are no jobs for people to go elsewhere.Then there is no protection in place.Watch what is remaining of our terms and conditions dissappear down the great vortex of the **** pan.the only exit strategy that one will then have is lose their licence or retire,both of which means you no longer have two brass farthings to rub together.60 years old,from a few grand to zero overnight.medical loss of licence,compound an illness or injury with the fact you now have not a pot to piss in.All very funny,do you not think? Look at the detail and for those of you who wish not to look at your bleak future,you are being lined up for the hiding of your lives.Do not say you were not warned,the point of no return is this summer.No union = no future!
(2)Dear stanley,i did not specifically mention your name as management.I wonder why you would assume i did?
Good Luck i do not need,but i know a group of suckers who soon will.Many thanks for your best wishes anyhow.God bless you!
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camel
I don't know how much actual experience of the aviation job market you have, not much by the sound of it.
I am an experienced jet captain with lots of time on other types in other companies. Now i am at RYR i am on a much better deal than i have ever had. I accept that Mol is trying to erode the existing terms and i am prepared to stand allongside my fellow pilots to prevent this. However, if you think RYR is the worst place for a pilot to be, you are sadly mistaken. If you want to do something about the terms and conditions, try pushing repa or balpa to get their fingers out, rather than ranting a load of rubbish to the outside world!
P.S I am not on the new deal.
BALLSOUT
I don't know how much actual experience of the aviation job market you have, not much by the sound of it.
I am an experienced jet captain with lots of time on other types in other companies. Now i am at RYR i am on a much better deal than i have ever had. I accept that Mol is trying to erode the existing terms and i am prepared to stand allongside my fellow pilots to prevent this. However, if you think RYR is the worst place for a pilot to be, you are sadly mistaken. If you want to do something about the terms and conditions, try pushing repa or balpa to get their fingers out, rather than ranting a load of rubbish to the outside world!
P.S I am not on the new deal.
BALLSOUT
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Ballsout - good to hear that you see the writing on the wall.Just speak to some of the pilots who have been here long term and they will tell you that every year has seen a substantial reduction in where we are at,while the company profits and profits.You will eventually also feel this bite,not now but soon.that is for certain.We understand that everything is relative and that what you are on now may be better that what you were on before.it does not however,negate the fact that you will be eroded over the course of time.the worying point is that when the company no longer profits and there are no other jobs to go to,there will be no protection unless we are together in one organisation with a voice,and then you will really feel the heat.Cross that with you are flying 900 hours year on year,you may lose your medical as a result.in the unlikely event that you do make it to sixty in ryanair,flying so many hours and doing so many earlies.you will have no pension!it may not be the worst place to be,but we can make it best!
there is no point in urging people to push repa or balpa,they are doing the job that we set them,the problem is that our colleagues refuse to honour the commitments they have made to themselves and their colleagues.this is being addressed as we speak.all the best to you!
there is no point in urging people to push repa or balpa,they are doing the job that we set them,the problem is that our colleagues refuse to honour the commitments they have made to themselves and their colleagues.this is being addressed as we speak.all the best to you!
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I'm with Grim - The sooner Ryanair pilots wake up and do what's best for their own future and join Balpa, Ialpa / Repa, the better for us all in the industry.
If and hopefully when Ryanair recognise a Union, it doesn't mean they won't continue to make shed loads of money, it just means a more secure future for their pilots.
Come on chaps join Balpa for all our sakes!
If and hopefully when Ryanair recognise a Union, it doesn't mean they won't continue to make shed loads of money, it just means a more secure future for their pilots.
Come on chaps join Balpa for all our sakes!
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Getting the RYR pilots to join a union is only the very first step on a very long road. MOL will do his utmost to continue in the way he runs things now, no unions, ever.
He will simply refuse to recognise any union in the first instance. In a few years, after several Law Court appearances by both sides, he might be forced to concede that the pilots have a right to a union to represent them. He will simply close bases one by one, telling the pilots that they can have their jobs back when they sign up to his All New AirLine Ryaniar Aviation Pilots' Executive who can negotiate all they like.
Dream on if you think union membership is the panacea it appeared to be for easyJet and others!
Sorry to be so pessimistic but I am a realist.
He will simply refuse to recognise any union in the first instance. In a few years, after several Law Court appearances by both sides, he might be forced to concede that the pilots have a right to a union to represent them. He will simply close bases one by one, telling the pilots that they can have their jobs back when they sign up to his All New AirLine Ryaniar Aviation Pilots' Executive who can negotiate all they like.
Dream on if you think union membership is the panacea it appeared to be for easyJet and others!
Sorry to be so pessimistic but I am a realist.
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Not a direct answer to the question I know, but the cost of training in other professions is as high, if not higher, than pilot training.
Students take out loans whilst at University and (usually) employers provide on-going training to meet the requirements of the various professional bodies.
Membership of a professional institution is normally achieved after five to seven years.
There's not that much difference with flying really - the 'student' pilot takes out a loan for the basic qualification and the employer completes the training with a type rating and line training.
It may appear that pilots are well paid, in some cases earning in excess of £100k a year. But for the lifestyle, un-social working hours and general stress it's not much recompense really. Most don't earn that amount at all.
Most professionals in their 40s and 50s earn an equivalent sum, assuming they are reasonably successful in their chosen profession, particulary when the overall 'package' is taken into account. The top professionals obviously earn far higher than that.
It is interesting, but the job of an airline pilot is classed as an 'associate professional or technical occupation' and not a 'professional occupation'.
In that sense maybe the pay isn't that bad?!
SITW
Students take out loans whilst at University and (usually) employers provide on-going training to meet the requirements of the various professional bodies.
Membership of a professional institution is normally achieved after five to seven years.
There's not that much difference with flying really - the 'student' pilot takes out a loan for the basic qualification and the employer completes the training with a type rating and line training.
It may appear that pilots are well paid, in some cases earning in excess of £100k a year. But for the lifestyle, un-social working hours and general stress it's not much recompense really. Most don't earn that amount at all.
Most professionals in their 40s and 50s earn an equivalent sum, assuming they are reasonably successful in their chosen profession, particulary when the overall 'package' is taken into account. The top professionals obviously earn far higher than that.
It is interesting, but the job of an airline pilot is classed as an 'associate professional or technical occupation' and not a 'professional occupation'.
In that sense maybe the pay isn't that bad?!
SITW
