EK "Desperation" Road Show
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Airport
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I found it more akin to that of a tourism board pitch for holiday goers and potentional property buyers. Spent the majority of the time listening to stories about water parks and jurassic parks and so on. Yes all important info for those that wish to relocate their family but any sort of direct questioning regarding points mentioned on previous posts seem to be answered with well rehersed and very short one liner answers or the usual see us after the talk for further info. As a single guy looking for a possible change it just did not do it for me at all, Actually not even close.
Its a huge lifestyle change and it simpley was not a good enough package for me. I think the plans for crew are hugely lacking, either change package or requirements or they in trouble. Good luck to them, what do i care.
Its a huge lifestyle change and it simpley was not a good enough package for me. I think the plans for crew are hugely lacking, either change package or requirements or they in trouble. Good luck to them, what do i care.
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: UK
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Hi, I went to the EK roadshow on Friday at Stansted. There were over 50 people attending. Initially I was quite impressed by the 3 hour presentation, but now I have some questions for the EK flyers...
1) How many days leave have you actually taken last year?
2) How many pilots actually had their full entitlement of 42 days?
3) If you are unable to take your full 42 days leave what happens? Do you get extra leave the following year or is it bought off you?
4) How many hours are you working per month?
5) How many days are you acually getting off per month?
6) Does the company allocate any of your leave?
Thanks SPWB
PS. Any chance of someone sending me a roster??
1) How many days leave have you actually taken last year?
2) How many pilots actually had their full entitlement of 42 days?
3) If you are unable to take your full 42 days leave what happens? Do you get extra leave the following year or is it bought off you?
4) How many hours are you working per month?
5) How many days are you acually getting off per month?
6) Does the company allocate any of your leave?
Thanks SPWB
PS. Any chance of someone sending me a roster??
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: >FL310
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I may be the exception but here are my facts:
Took zero leave last year due to the fact I was in training as a new joiner. All that earned leave rolled to this year (Apr-Mar 08) and have been allocated 72 days.
I have not flown over 65 hours (B777) for the last six months except for my reserve month in DEC-98 hrs. I have 87 hrs for next month. Most months get around 15 days off.
Some seats are getting beat up more than others. And again, my schedule seems to be the exception not the rule. I can't speak for anyone on the 'bus.
T/U
Took zero leave last year due to the fact I was in training as a new joiner. All that earned leave rolled to this year (Apr-Mar 08) and have been allocated 72 days.
I have not flown over 65 hours (B777) for the last six months except for my reserve month in DEC-98 hrs. I have 87 hrs for next month. Most months get around 15 days off.
Some seats are getting beat up more than others. And again, my schedule seems to be the exception not the rule. I can't speak for anyone on the 'bus.
T/U
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Land of NI
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B777 captain
average last 6 months 90 hours per month!!
Get 8 days off a month.
Got 36 of my owed 55 days leave!! some had to be rolled over from previous year.
And yes they will allocate leave for you when and where they want!!!
average last 6 months 90 hours per month!!
Get 8 days off a month.
Got 36 of my owed 55 days leave!! some had to be rolled over from previous year.
And yes they will allocate leave for you when and where they want!!!
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Australasia
Age: 60
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Hello wannabes,
Glad you enjoyed the roadshow and I hope they were decent enough to elaborate on the BIG PICTURE
too! Silicon is ok as long as I don't live there with kids as most of the kids are educated in the Jumeirah area located about 20 mins away. What is not so pleasant is the drive to and from equalling 4 trips per day or 20 trips per week for those without a bus service. In any case, whether in a car or bus thats 3 hrs 20 mins a week in a bus or 6 hrs 40 mins for any car drivers amongst you each week. Its no secret BUT the roads in Dubai are amongst the deadliest in the world. Maybe its just me, but I would not subject my family to be used as moving targets for certain types of drivers out there (just ask which nationalities stand out!!). Also, the cost of living is scary and as an FO with a family, you will be living from paycheck to paycheck until you get your command then things ease off a little. Not sure how long the road to the left seat is nowadays but you get an idea from the EK threads. Dubai is a building site and is polluted, crowded and has limited space for the family to enjoy unless you go to clubs used by the EK pilots. Joining as a member is cheap but facilities are limited. Very few public beaches available though some of these clubs provide beach access. I have been in DXB for over 10 years and have seen many changes, unfortunately for the worse as an expat living here but the rulers will call it progress......$$$ (say no more!) I believe the good days are gone and now its all about making money for the owners. Virgin Atlantic EK is not! Been there, done that, got the t-shirt and many grey hairs and stress. I am on my way out. Yes, we have the Wild Wadi, Ski Dubai, Burj Al Arab and building the tallest ? tower for now BUT sadly, and I do say this quite honestly, its just an existence (barely) for the expats here in DXB. Good luck if you decide to go ahead and relocate your family to the pit BUT have a long hard think about it.
Glad you enjoyed the roadshow and I hope they were decent enough to elaborate on the BIG PICTURE
too! Silicon is ok as long as I don't live there with kids as most of the kids are educated in the Jumeirah area located about 20 mins away. What is not so pleasant is the drive to and from equalling 4 trips per day or 20 trips per week for those without a bus service. In any case, whether in a car or bus thats 3 hrs 20 mins a week in a bus or 6 hrs 40 mins for any car drivers amongst you each week. Its no secret BUT the roads in Dubai are amongst the deadliest in the world. Maybe its just me, but I would not subject my family to be used as moving targets for certain types of drivers out there (just ask which nationalities stand out!!). Also, the cost of living is scary and as an FO with a family, you will be living from paycheck to paycheck until you get your command then things ease off a little. Not sure how long the road to the left seat is nowadays but you get an idea from the EK threads. Dubai is a building site and is polluted, crowded and has limited space for the family to enjoy unless you go to clubs used by the EK pilots. Joining as a member is cheap but facilities are limited. Very few public beaches available though some of these clubs provide beach access. I have been in DXB for over 10 years and have seen many changes, unfortunately for the worse as an expat living here but the rulers will call it progress......$$$ (say no more!) I believe the good days are gone and now its all about making money for the owners. Virgin Atlantic EK is not! Been there, done that, got the t-shirt and many grey hairs and stress. I am on my way out. Yes, we have the Wild Wadi, Ski Dubai, Burj Al Arab and building the tallest ? tower for now BUT sadly, and I do say this quite honestly, its just an existence (barely) for the expats here in DXB. Good luck if you decide to go ahead and relocate your family to the pit BUT have a long hard think about it.
Join Date: Jan 2000
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1) How many days leave have you actually taken last year?
2) How many pilots actually had their full entitlement of 42 days?
3) If you are unable to take your full 42 days leave what happens? Do you get extra leave the following year or is it bought off you?
4) How many hours are you working per month?
5) How many days are you acually getting off per month?
6) Does the company allocate any of your leave?
2) How many pilots actually had their full entitlement of 42 days?
3) If you are unable to take your full 42 days leave what happens? Do you get extra leave the following year or is it bought off you?
4) How many hours are you working per month?
5) How many days are you acually getting off per month?
6) Does the company allocate any of your leave?
2) none that I know. Our management was very proud to point out in the last leave assignment that "most" of the pilots were able to get "at least 30 days". No mention if ANY of the pilots got their contractual 42 days.
3) unused leave is carried over to the following year(s).
4) 80-95 hours
5) depends on your bid group and where you are in the rotation. When I'm in the top group, 12-14 days off in a month with 90 hours. In the bottom 2 groups, 8-9 days off and 90 hours.
6) yes. If they determine you have extra leave and they don't need you for a specific month, they will allocate leave to you to burn off your excess at their convenience.
Join Date: Jan 2000
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1) At the roadshow they said that with the 42 days of leave that you get per year that you are only 'definatly' going to get 30 days. I currently work a 5 on 3 off roster and as such if I take 5 days leave I am actualy off for 11 days, how does it work with EK?
2) If you don't get you full leave allocation it is rolled over to the next year we were told. As far as I can see with the expansion if your not able to get it one year then how are you likely to get more the next? If your not able to take the days can you opt to have them bought off of you?
3) How do they allocate leave? A day here a day there or in blocks?
4) Could someone explain the factoring of hours at EK to me please. I presently fly 850-900 a year.
5) We were told the accommodation was more than likely going to be at Silicon Oasis. Is that true and if not what is the other company accommodation like villa wise? (Im married with kids)
2) If you don't get you full leave allocation it is rolled over to the next year we were told. As far as I can see with the expansion if your not able to get it one year then how are you likely to get more the next? If your not able to take the days can you opt to have them bought off of you?
3) How do they allocate leave? A day here a day there or in blocks?
4) Could someone explain the factoring of hours at EK to me please. I presently fly 850-900 a year.
5) We were told the accommodation was more than likely going to be at Silicon Oasis. Is that true and if not what is the other company accommodation like villa wise? (Im married with kids)
They will try to allocate 1 prime slot based upon your previous history:
a) top awards go to those with no previous prime leave the previous year(s),
b) next to those who had peak but in a different period (eg. got summer, may get Christmas if you bid for it),
c) last to those who had peak and want it again (summer/summer).
Your choice of dates will be moved +-4 days (for 1st choice) and +-7 days for 2nd/3rd choice as they see fit.
If you don't get any prime leave and don't get any of your "non-peak" requests, you will be allowed to bid for a final round of the leftover scraps of days (min 4 day block, max 14 day block).
2) yes, leave is rolled over to the next year. No, you don't have the option of having them buy them off of you. They have the option of assigning leave to you at will (should there be a low flying month) or they reserve the option to buy them off of you if they desire.
3) as above, min 4 day blocks, 14-21 day blocks in prime time, 4-14 day blocks for other time.
4) 100% credit for flight hours in the seat. In "heavy" ops, they will only give you credit for time in the seat (14 hour flight; you are relief crew you will only get approx 6:15 credit instead of the 14 hours you were actually flying). Therefore, it is very possible to fly well beyond 100 hours in a month/900 hour in a year if you are doing a lot of long haul flying.
5) Silicon for the majority of new hires. Nice development, currently a fair distance out of town from schools, shopping, recreation, etc (there is a small mini-mart in the complex). Generally most do not have a problem with their villa accom no matter where they are......the odd break-in and typical maintenance issues due to crappy fit and finish in DXB but generally good standard.
Join Date: Mar 2003
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Silicon should have schools located out there soon, not sure which kind.
For the guy who works the 5 on 3 off and taking 5 days vacation gives him 11 off , thats a good deal. At EK you get 5 days off with 5 days vacation , there has been guys, including myself ,come back from VIE 2335 L and vacation start the next day. You will or are alloted 1 day off after vacation to be rested for your next flt which I think can start at 8 am,not sure if that is correct.
Contract says 42 vac UAE law says 30. Lucky if you get summer every other year and that is now capped at 21 days, if you dont take it may be assigned anywhere in the year.
Days off good months 15 bad months 8, out of 5 month rotation 2 good 3 bad.
You will work you bag off, simple as that. EK dont care if they burnout the old guys because there is younger guys willing to do it.
The thing with the factoring , if it does not change, you could end up working 1200 + year and still be under the 900 limit. Ugly. But you watch guys will be bragging about the o/t.
For the guy who works the 5 on 3 off and taking 5 days vacation gives him 11 off , thats a good deal. At EK you get 5 days off with 5 days vacation , there has been guys, including myself ,come back from VIE 2335 L and vacation start the next day. You will or are alloted 1 day off after vacation to be rested for your next flt which I think can start at 8 am,not sure if that is correct.
Contract says 42 vac UAE law says 30. Lucky if you get summer every other year and that is now capped at 21 days, if you dont take it may be assigned anywhere in the year.
Days off good months 15 bad months 8, out of 5 month rotation 2 good 3 bad.
You will work you bag off, simple as that. EK dont care if they burnout the old guys because there is younger guys willing to do it.
The thing with the factoring , if it does not change, you could end up working 1200 + year and still be under the 900 limit. Ugly. But you watch guys will be bragging about the o/t.
Join Date: Jan 2000
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One other thing to make clear.
It is not possible to plan a strategy to take your min 4 day leave blocks and try to come up with a plan to take 4 days/month leave for each month and then combine them with your days off.
After all the leave is awarded via the process described previous, there is virtually no leave left for the entire year. You can go on the leave request portal and you will see a calender with a sea of red (meaning no leave is available on those days colored red).
I think the F/O's tend to be staffed a little higher and might have a little room to get ad hoc leave (maybe one of them will update us on this) but on the Capt's leave request board it is impossible to bid leave after the final round is completed.
It is not possible to plan a strategy to take your min 4 day leave blocks and try to come up with a plan to take 4 days/month leave for each month and then combine them with your days off.
After all the leave is awarded via the process described previous, there is virtually no leave left for the entire year. You can go on the leave request portal and you will see a calender with a sea of red (meaning no leave is available on those days colored red).
I think the F/O's tend to be staffed a little higher and might have a little room to get ad hoc leave (maybe one of them will update us on this) but on the Capt's leave request board it is impossible to bid leave after the final round is completed.
Join Date: Apr 2007
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FY 07-08, Got 7 days leave that I asked for out of a possible 28 that I requested through out the year. Later got allocated (assigned) 14 days where I can't use them and another two blocks of 5 days thru the year. Total of 31 days from my 47 that I had (5 days carried over from last year, I was lucky).
