Flybe Recruiting and Ts & Cs
Join Date: Jun 2001
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So if you knew about this 5 years ago (that limits you to top 10% of Flybe) then how come Flybe crews have been flying the Q400 to MXP on a regular basis the last 6 weeks with no drift down info and no "escape routes"? They must have been all the ex Bacon crews that joined Flybe earlier, according to you. Sorry to break your bubble but that was not the case. Glad that some people recognise the issues, but why did it take a new Q400 crew ex Bacon to put an end to what has been happening the last 6 weeks?
As for jet profiles, normally never lower than FL300 at Mont Blanc. Though FL 250 is our lowest level (as opposed to your highest).
The only thing I would agree is that your fleet management (ex Brymon and BACX) has probably let you down big time. Lets face it what does an ex Hercules flight engineer know about oxygen requirements for passenger flying and drift down requirements?
I'm sure the passengers wouldn't be overjoyed either.
As for jet profiles, normally never lower than FL300 at Mont Blanc. Though FL 250 is our lowest level (as opposed to your highest).
The only thing I would agree is that your fleet management (ex Brymon and BACX) has probably let you down big time. Lets face it what does an ex Hercules flight engineer know about oxygen requirements for passenger flying and drift down requirements?
I'm sure the passengers wouldn't be overjoyed either.
Join Date: Jul 2000
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As far as the steep approach mod is concerned,, sure, you don't need it at the moment, but ten to one that flybe decide next week that LCY is the centre of the known universe (as it was a few years ago), and deeply regret not having all the aircraft modded... they certainly did last time!
So it looks logical to me!
Join Date: Oct 2000
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Just to back up excrab's comments, the routing for the BGY sector in 2003/2004 took us at least 70nm to the East of Mont Blanc, and Drift Down/Pressurisation Failure procedures were fully covered by our previous Fleet Manager following questions raised by pilots operating the route.
With regard to the rubber jungle, in an email to me GD stated : "Drop down O2-a non-starter. It is heavy and expensive and only gives you FL270."
With regard to the rubber jungle, in an email to me GD stated : "Drop down O2-a non-starter. It is heavy and expensive and only gives you FL270."
Join Date: Oct 2004
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"Drop down O2-a non-starter. It is heavy and expensive and only gives you FL270."
I guess now we can see why (some) tickets on Flybe appear cheap!
Wait til MOL finds out you can fly aircraft without oxygen for the passengers! (I assume it is available for the crew?
)Amazing!
Join Date: Jan 2001
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Wacky, Being an EX! Herc Eng means he has plenty of multi crew, low level, tactical and high level route flying experience, oh and plenty of experience of flying a pressurised non-pax oxygen aircraft around over the alps!
As one of your sympathisers said earlier to me, take your head out of your a*se!
As one of your sympathisers said earlier to me, take your head out of your a*se!
Wacky,
I'm very suprised that the fleet manager knows nothing about oxygen requirements and drift down for pax flying - after all he started as an F/O on the dash for Brymon (a part of Bacon), so would he not have been taught it there and then have been able to bring the benefit of his vast experience to flybe, as you have?
In your huge experience of flying over the alps in whatever it is that you fly for them how often have you looked at a topographical chart of the mountains - if you had studied it to see what was underneath you, you would be aware that you only have to be 20 miles past Mont Blanc on track to be able to descend to FL140, which is the JAR requirement for aircraft operating without drop down oxygen (and before you start I am well aware of the increments for wind speed over mountainous terrain). The drift down covers approximately 60 miles if I remember rightly, and if you depart the UK at max weight the dash will stabilise at approx 18000ft by the time it gets to the Alps. Drift down therefore was never a real problem, it was the oxygen requirements which were limiting.
It would appear that this whole discussion you have started is some attempt to prove that Bacon crews are more experienced than flybe crews, if that is the case then as has been said before you spout rubbish. When I left flybe I joined my current emloyer at the same time as an ex Bacon captain who had less total hours than I did and less time on the type he had been flying than I had on the dash 8. That didn't mean that either of us was any better than the other (we subsequently got commands after the same amount of time having jumped through the same hoops), but proves the point that you will find some Bacon pilots have more experience than some flybe pilots, and some flybe pilots have more experience than some Bacon pilots. Live with it.
As to the drift down and briefing for operation over high terrain which included all the things which have been mentioned in these last few posts they were certainly in the ops manuals when I looked last - although that was 12 months ago before I left. If they are no longer there then that is, as I said, down to either the fleet manager or ops director, neither of whom were home grown by flybe.
4468 - MOL may not know that you don't need oxygen for the pax, but his crews probably do. The 737 is allowed to despatch with the drop down oxygen inoperative provided that you have enough available for 10% of the pax, limit the max operating altitude to FL250 and can descend to FL140 within 3 minutes - exactly the same rules to which the dash operates. I'm very suprised if other jet types with UK certification don't have something similar (it is a long time since I have flown any others so can't remember off hand).
I'm very suprised that the fleet manager knows nothing about oxygen requirements and drift down for pax flying - after all he started as an F/O on the dash for Brymon (a part of Bacon), so would he not have been taught it there and then have been able to bring the benefit of his vast experience to flybe, as you have?
In your huge experience of flying over the alps in whatever it is that you fly for them how often have you looked at a topographical chart of the mountains - if you had studied it to see what was underneath you, you would be aware that you only have to be 20 miles past Mont Blanc on track to be able to descend to FL140, which is the JAR requirement for aircraft operating without drop down oxygen (and before you start I am well aware of the increments for wind speed over mountainous terrain). The drift down covers approximately 60 miles if I remember rightly, and if you depart the UK at max weight the dash will stabilise at approx 18000ft by the time it gets to the Alps. Drift down therefore was never a real problem, it was the oxygen requirements which were limiting.
It would appear that this whole discussion you have started is some attempt to prove that Bacon crews are more experienced than flybe crews, if that is the case then as has been said before you spout rubbish. When I left flybe I joined my current emloyer at the same time as an ex Bacon captain who had less total hours than I did and less time on the type he had been flying than I had on the dash 8. That didn't mean that either of us was any better than the other (we subsequently got commands after the same amount of time having jumped through the same hoops), but proves the point that you will find some Bacon pilots have more experience than some flybe pilots, and some flybe pilots have more experience than some Bacon pilots. Live with it.
As to the drift down and briefing for operation over high terrain which included all the things which have been mentioned in these last few posts they were certainly in the ops manuals when I looked last - although that was 12 months ago before I left. If they are no longer there then that is, as I said, down to either the fleet manager or ops director, neither of whom were home grown by flybe.
4468 - MOL may not know that you don't need oxygen for the pax, but his crews probably do. The 737 is allowed to despatch with the drop down oxygen inoperative provided that you have enough available for 10% of the pax, limit the max operating altitude to FL250 and can descend to FL140 within 3 minutes - exactly the same rules to which the dash operates. I'm very suprised if other jet types with UK certification don't have something similar (it is a long time since I have flown any others so can't remember off hand).
Last edited by excrab; 9th May 2007 at 19:23.
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All well and good planning meticulous escape routes for the Q400.
Having spent a good deal of uncomfortable time bashing through the Alps, despite rather than with the help of Italian ATC, this is a recipe for disaster.
Direct routings and WX avoidance will result in AC being off route when shyte happens and, by virtue of it 25K ceiling the Q400 is going to be going all over the shop to avoid crashing through some of the nastiest CBs around.
Didnt Emerald have an interesting experience a few years ago with a turboprop that strayed over Mount Blanc? New trousers all round after a hard GPWS.
Sorry, this is lunacy.
Having spent a good deal of uncomfortable time bashing through the Alps, despite rather than with the help of Italian ATC, this is a recipe for disaster.
Direct routings and WX avoidance will result in AC being off route when shyte happens and, by virtue of it 25K ceiling the Q400 is going to be going all over the shop to avoid crashing through some of the nastiest CBs around.
Didnt Emerald have an interesting experience a few years ago with a turboprop that strayed over Mount Blanc? New trousers all round after a hard GPWS.
Sorry, this is lunacy.
Join Date: Feb 2002
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Travelled as a pax in the back of a Herc once. Not a pleasant experience. Pushed in, ignored throughout flight by gobby loadies, temperature freezing, noisy, no food/drink available, no chance of sleeping, shoved out the other end, bag went missing.
As a thankfully infrequent passenger with Flybe I can now see where the passenger handling procedures were developed from.
As a thankfully infrequent passenger with Flybe I can now see where the passenger handling procedures were developed from.
And did you hear about the 145 crew that was ordered by OPS to position a 145 from MAN to EXT VFR for one off maintenance action. Capt politely declined the offer, but was told to get on with it by Ops. Fortunately, the Flight Ops Director agreed with the Captain and it didn’t happen. Would have been interesting though, trying to navigate round all the zones / VRP’s trying to maintain ground contact and 5k vis with nothing more than an airways chart. Wonder if BA would have appreciated all the complaints being directed to them. 145 in BA colours.
BTW, the new Herc J’s cruise at up to FL 340.
BTW, the new Herc J’s cruise at up to FL 340.
