Flybe Recruiting and Ts & Cs
Join Date: Feb 2004
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On time never comes before safety. If safety is not first then your responsibility kicks in. If you get comments from management (which is unlike), tell them how it is. If they don't listen, put in an ASR this comes to the CAA who will definately take action on this. It's English license not Ireland like Ryan, who owns Irish CAA. Don't be afraid of management according to safety, but use some common sense too off course.
Join Date: Jul 2004
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I'm curious,
Just what do the quacks put in a first aid kit for epileptic seizures and asthma attacks? Clearly all the proper airlines are flying hospitals making a neat little sideline from carrying fare paying pax.
Just what do the quacks put in a first aid kit for epileptic seizures and asthma attacks? Clearly all the proper airlines are flying hospitals making a neat little sideline from carrying fare paying pax.
Join Date: Dec 2003
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Until FlyBe's MD leaves I would steer well clear of this exceedingly dodgy outfit.
Engineering practices are outdated and paperwork heavy, as are the rest of the company paperwork trails.
As for the MD's attitude, well, there is a reason +150 pilots are working or are about to work notice.
FlyBe: Feels Like You're Being Exploited
BS
Engineering practices are outdated and paperwork heavy, as are the rest of the company paperwork trails.
As for the MD's attitude, well, there is a reason +150 pilots are working or are about to work notice.
FlyBe: Feels Like You're Being Exploited
BS
Join Date: Jan 2001
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Bugspeed,
thats an exceedingly childish comment regarding us being a dodgy outfit, and it's certainly not fair to some excellent engineering folk and flight crew at Flybe. Suggest you wind your neck in if you are comparing Bacon to Flybe, as the evidence of the poor way Bacon has been run after merging two profitable companies and turning them into one cash drain hardly reflects well on the management or the t's and c's of the crews. The very good reason that 150 plus pilots are leaving is due to not getting the ridiculously generous terms and conditions the crews were on at Bacon. I'd love to have those same t's and c's but would prefer my job on a new a/c, reasonable salary and reasonable lifestyle. If it's not for you then Foxtrot Oscar somehere else!
Which is what our MD said but much more politely!
There are some ex Bacon pilots who will never accept the new terms and conditions and have or are moving on, best of luck to them, but don't try and right off our company because of it.
Have a good look at Flybe and see the turnaround made in the last few years by the engineers and flight crew (with a little help from the MD and management). The fact we have come from debt to a large profit and then swallowed up BA Connect should speak for itself but sadly there are always some who choose not to listen.
So Bugspeed , if you are one of the new crew at Flybe, I suggest you put some time in with the new company before slagging it off, of course it is not what you are used to but then again that company went down the pan!
thats an exceedingly childish comment regarding us being a dodgy outfit, and it's certainly not fair to some excellent engineering folk and flight crew at Flybe. Suggest you wind your neck in if you are comparing Bacon to Flybe, as the evidence of the poor way Bacon has been run after merging two profitable companies and turning them into one cash drain hardly reflects well on the management or the t's and c's of the crews. The very good reason that 150 plus pilots are leaving is due to not getting the ridiculously generous terms and conditions the crews were on at Bacon. I'd love to have those same t's and c's but would prefer my job on a new a/c, reasonable salary and reasonable lifestyle. If it's not for you then Foxtrot Oscar somehere else!
Which is what our MD said but much more politely!There are some ex Bacon pilots who will never accept the new terms and conditions and have or are moving on, best of luck to them, but don't try and right off our company because of it.
Have a good look at Flybe and see the turnaround made in the last few years by the engineers and flight crew (with a little help from the MD and management). The fact we have come from debt to a large profit and then swallowed up BA Connect should speak for itself but sadly there are always some who choose not to listen.
So Bugspeed , if you are one of the new crew at Flybe, I suggest you put some time in with the new company before slagging it off, of course it is not what you are used to but then again that company went down the pan!
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: A different hotel to the one crewing told me...
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MVE, some of your reply is quite appropriate, but doesn't explain why over a third of the 150 leaving are "old Flybe" pilots.
Also, I think you are being a little simplistic in putting the number of ex Cons leaving down to t&c issues, for many it is just as much a question of base, opportunity to fly jets or simply pay. Jimbos letter invited us to FIFO, so don't get upset that so many are choosing to do the latter.
Personnally, I don't see much antagonism in the crew room, and ultimatey, those that have a reason to stay will, and those that have a better reason to go will go. C'est la vie.
What I'm more concerned about at the moment is the number of Q400s that seem to live on the ramp rather than in the air. For a lo-co, such poor utilisation is surely not good...
oap
Also, I think you are being a little simplistic in putting the number of ex Cons leaving down to t&c issues, for many it is just as much a question of base, opportunity to fly jets or simply pay. Jimbos letter invited us to FIFO, so don't get upset that so many are choosing to do the latter.
Personnally, I don't see much antagonism in the crew room, and ultimatey, those that have a reason to stay will, and those that have a better reason to go will go. C'est la vie.
What I'm more concerned about at the moment is the number of Q400s that seem to live on the ramp rather than in the air. For a lo-co, such poor utilisation is surely not good...
oap
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With all the emotion here, it's easy to miss the salient facts.
Most BA Connect pilots are moving on because they have found a better offer elsewhere, as has evidently quite a few Flybe pilots. Is that so hard to understand? Those of us in Bristol were pushed into it by having the rug pulled from under our feet, but it's still the same principal - you look at your options & hopefully pick the best.
My option with Flybe was to relocate my family and move from a jet to a turboprop. My alternative was to stay put and fly for easyJet. Simple decision, nothing to do with company management, engineering, T&Cs, rostering agreements or even money.
Most BA Connect pilots are moving on because they have found a better offer elsewhere, as has evidently quite a few Flybe pilots. Is that so hard to understand? Those of us in Bristol were pushed into it by having the rug pulled from under our feet, but it's still the same principal - you look at your options & hopefully pick the best.
My option with Flybe was to relocate my family and move from a jet to a turboprop. My alternative was to stay put and fly for easyJet. Simple decision, nothing to do with company management, engineering, T&Cs, rostering agreements or even money.
Join Date: Jan 2001
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oapilot, red snake, I take all your points and my comments regarding most/all leaving due to the T's and C's was far too simplistic.
However my response was to the general rubbishing comment made by Bugspeed, clearly from someone who hasn't been around Flybe for long or they would realise the gross insult he/she is paying us.
As to some not wanting to leave because of being moved to the q400, all I can say is try flying it first. Would it really be a step down from flying the 145, really? If it was coupled with a possible base move/family move, I could understand the reluctance.
If your ultimate aim is to move to the likes of Monarch or Easy etc, it's a great first aircraft and for a lot of us it will be a great last aircraft!
Flybe has long been a feeder airline and they make no apoligies for it, but it's due to the great experience that you get here that makes it so easy to move on.
It's not all good and the way the Bristol closure was handled shows the other side of Flybe management and you all have my sympathies but I suspect if Bacon management had been as willing to be so brutal things may have been different.
Flybe is by no means perfect but overall it's not bad!
However my response was to the general rubbishing comment made by Bugspeed, clearly from someone who hasn't been around Flybe for long or they would realise the gross insult he/she is paying us.
As to some not wanting to leave because of being moved to the q400, all I can say is try flying it first. Would it really be a step down from flying the 145, really? If it was coupled with a possible base move/family move, I could understand the reluctance.
If your ultimate aim is to move to the likes of Monarch or Easy etc, it's a great first aircraft and for a lot of us it will be a great last aircraft!
Flybe has long been a feeder airline and they make no apoligies for it, but it's due to the great experience that you get here that makes it so easy to move on.
It's not all good and the way the Bristol closure was handled shows the other side of Flybe management and you all have my sympathies but I suspect if Bacon management had been as willing to be so brutal things may have been different.
Flybe is by no means perfect but overall it's not bad!
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Ok lets talk some specifics. After some time now of Flybe crews flying over the Alps in the Q400 to MXP, why did it take an ex Bacon Q400 crew to refuse? Because no published drift down (not far to drift down anyway from FL250 to 18,200') and no drop down masks in the cabin (no option of immediate descent to FL100 unless you want to be buried at Mont Blanc). Why does it take Bacon experience to work out such obvious factors? Who wants to cross the Alps at 25000' or less (depending on local qnh) anyway - nobody in their right mind. Will be great fun dodging the CB's and TS later in the year.
Yes - afraid so. Glad I'm not around for too much longer - good luck everybody, you'll certainly need it with these cowboys. Bugspeed I'm with you.
Would it really be a step down from flying the 145, really?
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why did it take an ex Bacon Q400 crew to refuse?
Of course I would have to agree that ordering the Q400 without cabin 02, steep approach mod etc was a bit short-sighted, but there you go...
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bugspeed, Who are you?? What an Arse...Your not Ex Ba by any chance...get your head out your arse.
Flybe is actually a very sound company. Engineering is actually one of flybe strong points.
Flybe is actually a very sound company. Engineering is actually one of flybe strong points.
Wacky,
A totally unfair post, there are plenty of experienced crews at flybe.
As remoak says, when the Q400 first started operating to Bergamo a route across the Alps was worked out which was perfectly safe and avoided Mont Blanc,and was used for all Q400 ops into Northen Italy. This was done by the previous fleet manager (who was an extremely experienced ex RAF pilot) with a little help from his training department, and agreed by the then FOI who was another extremely experienced ex RAF pilot among other things. Last time I looked the briefing for this was still included in the ops manual (part C) and the drift down information was available in the ops manual (part B).
Unfortunately, the current fleet manager (who it should be noted is ex bacon), and the current FOI (who is ex Brymon but I think he left before bacon happened) have now decreed that it is safe to route over the top of Mont Blanc. Plenty of Flybe crews are aware of this problem, and are also aware of the drift down capabilities of the Q400 as they have been flying it for a long time. Perhaps it is their experience in operating the aircraft over the Alps which allows them to do so, as they are aware that if you are over the top of Mont Blanc you cover a sufficient distance during the drift down to be clear of the significant high ground, and with knowledge of the previously published information you can make a safe decision, based on weather and wind speed/direction, as to whether you continue in the direction you were going or turn back North or South.
If the information is no longer included in the manuals then that is almost certainly due to the current fleet manager, who as we all know is ex Bacon, having been slotted into the job above several highly experienced Flybe pilots who applied for the post internally and weren't even considered in the final selection (and I wasn't one of them, by the way).
The other thing to remember in the Q400 v E145 over the Alps debate is that if you are operating into Milan, Bergamo, Turin or any of the other destinations in Northern Italy that flybe operate to you are going to be either climbing or descending over the mountains anyway, so for a lot of the time you will be avoiding weather in any aircraft.
Remoak - as an aside the drop down oxygen only increases the aircraft max operating altitude to 27,000 ft, as a result of which no operators ordered it and I was informed (but could be wrong) that Bombardier withdrew it as an option. The steep approach mod would really only be required for LCY operations which flybe decided not to continue, hence only a few aircraft were delivered to flybe with it fitted, and if you see one it will be placarded as inoperative (or used to be).
A totally unfair post, there are plenty of experienced crews at flybe.
As remoak says, when the Q400 first started operating to Bergamo a route across the Alps was worked out which was perfectly safe and avoided Mont Blanc,and was used for all Q400 ops into Northen Italy. This was done by the previous fleet manager (who was an extremely experienced ex RAF pilot) with a little help from his training department, and agreed by the then FOI who was another extremely experienced ex RAF pilot among other things. Last time I looked the briefing for this was still included in the ops manual (part C) and the drift down information was available in the ops manual (part B).
Unfortunately, the current fleet manager (who it should be noted is ex bacon), and the current FOI (who is ex Brymon but I think he left before bacon happened) have now decreed that it is safe to route over the top of Mont Blanc. Plenty of Flybe crews are aware of this problem, and are also aware of the drift down capabilities of the Q400 as they have been flying it for a long time. Perhaps it is their experience in operating the aircraft over the Alps which allows them to do so, as they are aware that if you are over the top of Mont Blanc you cover a sufficient distance during the drift down to be clear of the significant high ground, and with knowledge of the previously published information you can make a safe decision, based on weather and wind speed/direction, as to whether you continue in the direction you were going or turn back North or South.
If the information is no longer included in the manuals then that is almost certainly due to the current fleet manager, who as we all know is ex Bacon, having been slotted into the job above several highly experienced Flybe pilots who applied for the post internally and weren't even considered in the final selection (and I wasn't one of them, by the way).
The other thing to remember in the Q400 v E145 over the Alps debate is that if you are operating into Milan, Bergamo, Turin or any of the other destinations in Northern Italy that flybe operate to you are going to be either climbing or descending over the mountains anyway, so for a lot of the time you will be avoiding weather in any aircraft.
Remoak - as an aside the drop down oxygen only increases the aircraft max operating altitude to 27,000 ft, as a result of which no operators ordered it and I was informed (but could be wrong) that Bombardier withdrew it as an option. The steep approach mod would really only be required for LCY operations which flybe decided not to continue, hence only a few aircraft were delivered to flybe with it fitted, and if you see one it will be placarded as inoperative (or used to be).
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excrab
I'm sure that you are right, but I think it would be sensible, if flying routes that require a terrain clearance profile rather than a simple emergency descent, to have the rubber jungle (if only for the peace of mind of the pax).
As far as the steep approach mod is concerned,, sure, you don't need it at the moment, but ten to one that flybe decide next week that LCY is the centre of the known universe (as it was a few years ago), and deeply regret not having all the aircraft modded... they certainly did last time!
Excellent post, by the way. You are absolutely correct in what you say. It seems that the BACON management types have caused all sorts of problems in the recent past - I gather that Crewing and Rostering are a lot less flexible than they used to be, owing to ex-BACON managers that simply cannot think outside the square.
Wacky and bugspeed, don't let the door hit you in the butt on the way out. Nobody will miss you.
I'm sure that you are right, but I think it would be sensible, if flying routes that require a terrain clearance profile rather than a simple emergency descent, to have the rubber jungle (if only for the peace of mind of the pax).
As far as the steep approach mod is concerned,, sure, you don't need it at the moment, but ten to one that flybe decide next week that LCY is the centre of the known universe (as it was a few years ago), and deeply regret not having all the aircraft modded... they certainly did last time!
Excellent post, by the way. You are absolutely correct in what you say. It seems that the BACON management types have caused all sorts of problems in the recent past - I gather that Crewing and Rostering are a lot less flexible than they used to be, owing to ex-BACON managers that simply cannot think outside the square.
Wacky and bugspeed, don't let the door hit you in the butt on the way out. Nobody will miss you.
