Flybe Recruiting and Ts & Cs
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Lets be perfectly honest ...........FLYBE management are a bunch of country bumpkins with dillusions of grandeur.
The company would never have survived but for massive amounts of money from the Walker trust "because Old man Walker had a soft spot for the business" (useful having a sentimental patron with a few billion in the bank)
They have cocked up this take over so completely that what is going to be left is time served pilots who are unemployable elswhere and kids with no hours looking for job 1 plus a few others.
The present advertising campaign assumes that its target candidates will have the same mental age as those who devised it. It is misleading rubbish!!
The company would never have survived but for massive amounts of money from the Walker trust "because Old man Walker had a soft spot for the business" (useful having a sentimental patron with a few billion in the bank)
They have cocked up this take over so completely that what is going to be left is time served pilots who are unemployable elswhere and kids with no hours looking for job 1 plus a few others.
The present advertising campaign assumes that its target candidates will have the same mental age as those who devised it. It is misleading rubbish!!
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It's an old old addage, Reap what you sow.
Flybe and Jet2 need a kick into reality.
But I hope that Jet2 management are sitting up and paying attention. Because in just 5 weeks they will deliver what they think is an adequate package to retain staff for 2007/8, and I fear it will fall far short.
Seems that crap management is universal and very well compensated.
At least pilots will be on the dole for only a short time.
Flybe and Jet2 need a kick into reality.
But I hope that Jet2 management are sitting up and paying attention. Because in just 5 weeks they will deliver what they think is an adequate package to retain staff for 2007/8, and I fear it will fall far short.
Seems that crap management is universal and very well compensated.
At least pilots will be on the dole for only a short time.
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Hudson
Surely not. A Barbie-jet line captain with the same 10 years gets £3500.
ps. I hope this frantic panicky recruiting that Flybe are suddenly doing is not a sign that the deal is lost
Surely not. A Barbie-jet line captain with the same 10 years gets £3500.
ps. I hope this frantic panicky recruiting that Flybe are suddenly doing is not a sign that the deal is lost
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The errosion of pay and conditions is an inevitable consequence of the rise of the low cost carriers.flying is now so ridiculously cheap,where does the money come from to pay decent rates of pay,pay the leases on the aircraft,fuel,landing fees,ongoing training costs,insurance,uniforms,operational and engineering support,the list of cost goes on and on.ryanair only survive by securing no cost or even subsidised operations from and to obscure airfields,EU officials declaring some of these arrangements to be unfair and anti-competetive.As pilots for these operators,to have aspirations to the very comfortable pay scales enjoyed by the majors in the past,is an impossible dream.as flying has now become just public transport,one captain remarking that taking a flight with a well known no frills carrier was like catching a bus through the council estate !!,I am afraid that driving for these outfits is just like being a bus driver and i don,t mean a bus with an A in front of it !!The only chance and it,s a very slim one,is for major collapses in the lo cost market and the resulting reduction in capacity,driving up ticket prices.the downside is of course,a lot less pilots required,but those remaining enjoying improved pay and conditions.Not the future we all want,but those are the facts,we can,t change them !!
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Bermuda
With respect, your post is total boll*cks!
Ryanair are one of the best payers in the biz. Easy are right up there too. In the States, Air South West-the original loco, are cracking payers.
Look at Ryanairs profits for fuxxackes!
Flybe are crummy payers- but they make good profit.
Hudson. Thanks for your response. You make me so glad I'm not coming. But a bit sad for those already there and for my good mates in BACON. At least they will be pay protected for ages.
Things are getting a bit desperate!
With respect, your post is total boll*cks!
Ryanair are one of the best payers in the biz. Easy are right up there too. In the States, Air South West-the original loco, are cracking payers.
Look at Ryanairs profits for fuxxackes!
Flybe are crummy payers- but they make good profit.
Hudson. Thanks for your response. You make me so glad I'm not coming. But a bit sad for those already there and for my good mates in BACON. At least they will be pay protected for ages.
Things are getting a bit desperate!
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Are you sure Flybe make a good profit? Their accounts seem to to show a perpetual loss year by year. The last ones to 31st march 2006 show a loss of something like £12 million on a £300 Million turnover, with an exceptional of £8 Million.
I am no accountant and maybe the loss is acceptable by the bean counters.
I also checked the CAA website whilst gearing up for an interview - their load factor in November was 57%, if I've read the numbers correctly, which is a lot lower than the other Low cost carriers.
I am no accountant and maybe the loss is acceptable by the bean counters.
I also checked the CAA website whilst gearing up for an interview - their load factor in November was 57%, if I've read the numbers correctly, which is a lot lower than the other Low cost carriers.
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Well Oldie
They claim 'a £30m difference between their own Profit and BaCon's loss'. in only 6 months of trading.
As Bacon lost about £6m last year, presumably Flybe claim a profit of c.£24m.
They claim 'a £30m difference between their own Profit and BaCon's loss'. in only 6 months of trading.
As Bacon lost about £6m last year, presumably Flybe claim a profit of c.£24m.
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Brain fade,you are right about ryanair's pay,not too sure about the conditions or the workload,not having experienced their rostering,i can,t comment.Where i disagree with you totally,is your assumption that the current aviation market will continue,with ryanair and easyjet offering decent salaries.there is gross over capacity,the new passenger duty has enraged oleary,too many carriers chasing customers travelling only if the fares are cheap enough.something has to give and i am sure it won,t be too far in the future before the market adjusts accordingly.
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Bermuda
I did not claim anything would continue. Neither do I make any assumptions.
I may look a bit like Mystic Meg or even smell like her, but I am not blessed with psychic powers.
AT THE MOMENT the locos are great payers.......except flybe. So go figure.
Oldie
I checked the website (spin ridden maybe) but they claim to have made £20.5m (before tax) in the six months preceeding 30/9/2006.
A porky then?
Could be judging by todays handouts.
I did not claim anything would continue. Neither do I make any assumptions.
I may look a bit like Mystic Meg or even smell like her, but I am not blessed with psychic powers.
AT THE MOMENT the locos are great payers.......except flybe. So go figure.
Oldie
I checked the website (spin ridden maybe) but they claim to have made £20.5m (before tax) in the six months preceeding 30/9/2006.
A porky then?
Could be judging by todays handouts.
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What I don't understand is that Jim French openly admits to not liking Pilots. (Overpaid, Under worked and all that)
He then attempts to make the Pilot workforce look like fools by offering 90K. (When we all know that his offer does not really exist) and at the end of the day he believes he can recruit highly qualified and experienced skippers to fly his aircraft that nobody wants to fly.
Jim. I know you read pprune. Get a reality check. Your Pilot workforce has a great deal more intelligence than you could ever dream of. This profession is unique in the fact that the intelligence gradient is the opposite way to most other professions and subsequently recognises fools from a great distance.
Stop insulting, throw away your gripes and grudges and start to run Flybe like a business. If you can't, go and get a job putting out cones on the M5 and allow someone with a business mind save this regional airline from the brink of complete meltdown.
He then attempts to make the Pilot workforce look like fools by offering 90K. (When we all know that his offer does not really exist) and at the end of the day he believes he can recruit highly qualified and experienced skippers to fly his aircraft that nobody wants to fly.
Jim. I know you read pprune. Get a reality check. Your Pilot workforce has a great deal more intelligence than you could ever dream of. This profession is unique in the fact that the intelligence gradient is the opposite way to most other professions and subsequently recognises fools from a great distance.
Stop insulting, throw away your gripes and grudges and start to run Flybe like a business. If you can't, go and get a job putting out cones on the M5 and allow someone with a business mind save this regional airline from the brink of complete meltdown.
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BermudaTriangle.
Not wanting to hijack a thread but am interested by your comment:
there is gross over capacity
Can you qualify this statement with some facts?
Not wanting to hijack a thread but am interested by your comment:
there is gross over capacity
Can you qualify this statement with some facts?
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Sure scotty,just look at load factors,for example flybe 57%,ryanair and easyjet flying aircraft with plenty of empty seats,Monarch giving seats away on main routes,AGP,PMI,ALC for example.GB load factors dreadful on what were good revenue routes only 18 months ago.This summer will be a trying time for those at the price sensitive end of the market,just read the financial columns.
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All flybe's figures are distorted.
Look at the way they record "On Time" flights. They calculate it by the arrival time and not the industry standard of departure time.
Anybody know where they get 90 grand from? HA HA HA!!!!!!
Look at the way they record "On Time" flights. They calculate it by the arrival time and not the industry standard of departure time.
Anybody know where they get 90 grand from? HA HA HA!!!!!!
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Like your post Mod.
The buck does indeed stop with Jim French who has taken Ba Connect pilots and indeed the rest of our profession (judging by this stupid advert) for complete fools.
He had absolutely no idea what he was getting into and has surrounded himself with yesmen who did not dare tell him that he had bitten off far more than he could chew.
Now the experienced Rashers have voted with their feet this ridiculous campaign to try to make up for what he has lost just exposes him as being way, way out of his depth.
If he had one scrap of common sense hed pull out of the deal.......whatever the cost.
The buck does indeed stop with Jim French who has taken Ba Connect pilots and indeed the rest of our profession (judging by this stupid advert) for complete fools.
He had absolutely no idea what he was getting into and has surrounded himself with yesmen who did not dare tell him that he had bitten off far more than he could chew.
Now the experienced Rashers have voted with their feet this ridiculous campaign to try to make up for what he has lost just exposes him as being way, way out of his depth.
If he had one scrap of common sense hed pull out of the deal.......whatever the cost.
Last edited by Ghengis Cant; 26th Feb 2007 at 19:43.
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Jim French's pedigree is in load control. I rest my case (no disrespect to load controllers).
Anybody who is foolish enough to believe they might get the quoted amount of cash from Flybe deserves all they get. The real money offered doesn't seem that bad for turboprop driving but everything else around it is crap..or so I'm told by a multitude of ex colleagues. I hope the guys can use this situation to their advantage and actually negotiate something meaningful for the future.
As for the 'merger', as long as the orange lodge are offering commands to those that drive the pencil jet then there's going to be problems with retention.
Anybody who is foolish enough to believe they might get the quoted amount of cash from Flybe deserves all they get. The real money offered doesn't seem that bad for turboprop driving but everything else around it is crap..or so I'm told by a multitude of ex colleagues. I hope the guys can use this situation to their advantage and actually negotiate something meaningful for the future.
As for the 'merger', as long as the orange lodge are offering commands to those that drive the pencil jet then there's going to be problems with retention.
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Brain fade
The six months to 30th september were the best 6 months of the year. summer load factor 70% odd (July as example), in load factor in November the load factor was 57%. The question is are they losing money currently and will the money they made over the summer exceed any winter losses ie over the year will they make a profit? Probably we'll not know until this time next year!
I am also curious as to why they have decided to go head to head with BMI Baby on the BHX ABZ route. A year ago there was no ABZ - BHX service, now there are two airlines at it! This maybe be one of the reasons for the comment - are there enough people who want to travel ABZ-BHX to justify 4 services per day?
The six months to 30th september were the best 6 months of the year. summer load factor 70% odd (July as example), in load factor in November the load factor was 57%. The question is are they losing money currently and will the money they made over the summer exceed any winter losses ie over the year will they make a profit? Probably we'll not know until this time next year!
I am also curious as to why they have decided to go head to head with BMI Baby on the BHX ABZ route. A year ago there was no ABZ - BHX service, now there are two airlines at it! This maybe be one of the reasons for the comment - are there enough people who want to travel ABZ-BHX to justify 4 services per day?