Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Terms and Endearment
Reload this Page >

Aer Lingus - Direct Entry Pilots

Terms and Endearment The forum the bean counters hoped would never happen. Your news on pay, rostering, allowances, extras and negotiations where you work - scheduled, charter or contract.

Aer Lingus - Direct Entry Pilots

Old 1st Mar 2006, 04:05
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Ballymun
Posts: 108
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Firstly let me say that Half-day Henry is messing with you all and might have got a few false hopes up!

Expansion Plan is awaiting Ministerial approval, and is dependant on privatisation

42 A320s
14 A330s
New LHR base

150 pilots need to be recruited by 2010
Interviews to commence in September
Not heard where the 150 figure came from???? And very much doubt interviews this Sep.

There are a lot of ifs and buts RE privatisation/expansion etc but at the moment we know for sure the only facts are that everyone at EI is working close to limits now, rostering is very tight, and there are allegedly a couple more A320's in the pipeline, not to mention 2 new A330's (29% Long Haul fleet expansion!!!) to be delivered mid 2007. To take it to 29 A320's and 9 A330's

New LHR base would probably be A330 to take advantage of an EU/US open skies deal and the decent number of slots EI has there. There are lots of crews overnighting in Kensington and Cork each night so bases in these could be a strong possibility, particularly Cork now, although at no extra cost to the company. The Shannon base idea didn't work out a few years back due to complications over relocation/house prices etc etc!!!

Before any new outside recruitment there are around 25 pilots (anyone have accurate figures?) away on unpaid leave, some of whom will not be back until 2008. And 43 cadets who were let go during training in Jerez , many of these have good jobs already, I suspect only half of these would want to rejoin EI? Anyone else have an estimate here?? High-flyer??

There are hardly any new retirements for the next 5 years as many senior guys have already gone early on the numerous exit packages offered recently. Similar to BA time to command for new joiners will be circa 12 years+ however they will be joining at the crest of a recruitment wave and most likely will be a Captain 7 years quicker than the guys at the bottom of the seniority list at present!! However if Mannions plan of 14 A330's and 42 A320's by 2010 comes to fruition then time to command will reduce significantly, that 100% expansion on long haul and 55% on short haul.

My own hunch is for outside recruitment for summer schedule 2007. Last time EI recruited DE Pilots it took anyone from fresh Oxford graduates with 150 odd hours, ex-military IAC and RAF, new frozen ATPLs from modular and self improver route, and both EI type rated and non EI type rated Airline Pilots from all over. It's a diverse and interesting bunch!!!

This was however in the good old days, 1999-2000, now the company will prefer minimal training cost, so obviously Airbus type rated and houred will have preference, then zero flight time candidates (no circuits) with 500 hrs jet??, then maybe some sort of serious self sponsored bonding scheme similar to Easyjet recruitment, for non type rated low houred candidates. Yes EI is similar to BA in that your face must fit the organisation rather than your previous jobs/qualifications. And your right, EVERYONE is in with a shot!!!!

The selection process 6 years ago used to be a multiple stage BA type affair but I predict it will be alot more "low cost" this time round!!!

As for the terms and conditions for new entrants, this will be one big fight, particularly the final salary pension issue.

IALPA is aware of the problems of B and C scales have caused at other airlines such as Cathay with regard to unity and Union effectiveness. At BA the imminent pension problems, will be compounded by their recently introduced C scale pension, and will have a profound impact in the outcome IMHO.

IALPA has agreed worse terms for new entrants before and it caused bad feeling for years amongst some. And I'd like to hope it won't happen again for all our sakes, but I feel the precedent might have already been set with the other Airlines and we'll all shaft ourselves!!!!

As said by st patrick, no EI pilot would be happy seeing new recruits join on a B scale for pay, and I don't think that will happen, good, but for the pension I'm not so optimistic. Just looking at the way the industry has gone the last few years, and indeed all the other pension schemes in the country/Europe!!!

Will IALPA shut down the National Airline again for days on end, to ensure a present day norm-shattering pension deal for people who haven't joined yet? I doubt it. Will be very interesting to see what Willie has in store for BA Pilots pensions though.

All in all, I predict new outside recruitment for EI in time for summer 2007 schedule, and the overall package to be slightly better than the current BA one for new joiners.
Silver Tongued Cavalier is offline  
Old 1st Mar 2006, 16:16
  #22 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: ireland
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Great post! Thanks for taking the time to do it. All I have to do is get in now!
12 years to command I hope it's worth it!
eire757 is offline  
Old 1st Mar 2006, 19:56
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
st patrick you must have a short memory. Do you not remember the pay deal post 911 where cadets at the bottom of the scale got 4% percent while captains much higher up the scale got as much as 22%! I remember getting 4.5%. The company spread the pot of money about so that they could get the vote through. Something like 60/40 if I recall. Divide and conquer.
moomin is offline  
Old 1st Mar 2006, 20:50
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Dublin, IE
Posts: 51
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Silver Tongued Cavalier
And 43 cadets who were let go during training in Jerez , many of these have good jobs already, I suspect only half of these would want to rejoin EI?
I would say somewhere between 30-35 as an educated guess. I think you'll find that the majority will still want to return.
PhoenixRising is offline  
Old 1st Mar 2006, 21:19
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: EIME
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
AerLingus Recruiting

Would only believe some of the things that EIRE 757 is saying !
ryanride is offline  
Old 2nd Mar 2006, 16:48
  #26 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: ireland
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by maverick777
EIRE 757...
Did you hear this news from a reliable source. I've heard so many lies across these forums and from prospective employers its not funny anymore.
Is there any concrete to this 'rumour'?
I think the fact that I started the thread means that I am myself trying to find out if there is any truth to the rumours. I heard it from two ex- EI cadets. I have been working abroad for 5 years now and this is the first time I have heard anything even half reliable. Maybe its rubbish, maybe it's not. But it's worth asking.
eire757 is offline  
Old 2nd Mar 2006, 17:02
  #27 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: ireland
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by ryanride
Would only believe some of the things that EIRE 757 is saying !

I only asked questions mate. I did't answer any of them!
eire757 is offline  
Old 2nd Mar 2006, 19:42
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: UK
Age: 38
Posts: 140
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Im hopefully fresh out of OAT in April '07. Does anyone know what sort of a relationship OAT has with EI? Id love to get a job back home. Any Job!

Have EI ever taken low houred pilots that weren't cadets?
dlav is offline  
Old 3rd Mar 2006, 03:44
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Ballymun
Posts: 108
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
eire757, thanks, I remember when I was looking to get a job, this site helped me so much, good to give a bit back! And yes there's no harm in asking questions, just as long as people take the answers with a pinch of salt! Its a RUMOUR network!!!

moomin, yes that was Willie W, 60/40 divide and conquer classic! Good luck BA Pilots

PhoenixRising, thanks for you estimate, a bit higher than I thought. So that means around 25 unpaid leavers and say 35 ex-cadets to soak up before outside recruitment. Thats about 4 A320's worth of slack, give or take. 2 more A320's are due, and 2 A330's are due. Everyone working hard in EI right now, this summer will be very interesting!!!

dlav, EI has had about 50 cadets through Oxford since 1999-2001. And yes EI has during this time taken graduates of Oxford as Direct Entry Pilots ($$$'s) with minimum hours.
Silver Tongued Cavalier is offline  
Old 3rd Mar 2006, 15:58
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: the Milky Way
Posts: 194
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
There are ex-cadets at Ryanair, Easyjet, Cityjet, Aer Arann, BA, Monarch, Flybe, Thomsonfly, GB, Baby, to name some off the top of my head. Obviously people will have their reasons for staying or returning, but it doesn't take a genius to work out which of these companies offer an inferior overall package to Lingus and thus, make a good guestimate as to who will or won't return. I'd say the previously mentioned figure of 30-35 would be about right. That said, if the package ain't good enough, that figure will reduce substantially. Bear in mind most of the cadets now have substantial jet time, and some have commands, so they have plenty of options and are far beyond being starry-eyed low-timers.
ElNino is offline  
Old 5th Mar 2006, 14:13
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: the edge of my seat
Posts: 79
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Wink

Silver Tongued Cavalier - when did we ever recruit "in time for" ?!!!!!

Moomin - true enough but at least you can look forward to those big jumps in salary not to mention the effect they will have on that gold plated pension. Come to think of it, at worst you are starting on a series of serious increments next month. The sun will come out tomorrow !!!!
st patrick is offline  
Old 24th Apr 2006, 15:22
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Aer Lingus

Hi everyone just wondering what the hours,the roster and the pay was like at aer lingus. Thanks for your help
boeing 737 fan is offline  
Old 28th Apr 2006, 17:01
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: UK
Age: 38
Posts: 140
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
anyone?????
dlav is offline  
Old 29th Apr 2006, 07:10
  #34 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 1997
Location: 5530N
Posts: 845
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
they'll work you like dogs.....
Bearcat is offline  
Old 19th Jun 2006, 23:40
  #35 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: ireland
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I hear some/all of the cadets have been called back, some of which have left flying and will need to get an MEP/IR courtesy of the company. True? Any more news on recruitment?
eire757 is offline  
Old 1st Jul 2006, 04:05
  #36 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Everywhere
Posts: 190
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Aer Lingus Info

Hi All,

As some may know Aer Lingus have recalled their old trainees, and plenty I know of are returning back to EI within the next few coming weeks. After that all I hear is that a big enough recruitment drive is on for drivers young and old

Question is, whats their requirements and what are they offering???

Does anybody have any info??

Many Thanks,

S.C.
Sky_Captain is offline  
Old 1st Jul 2006, 14:02
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: balbriggan, ireland
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
A colleague in EI tells me that they are short 27 Capts and 26 FOS to fly the A330 line from April 2007. There are some yawning gaps in roster cover in Aug and Sep 06 but they hope to bend or ignore IAA on this problem. They will be looking for type rated or easy conversion guys for these positions. Airbus type rating training is very difficult to buy right now.

For the smaller Airbus - partic A321 they are looking for 24 Capts and 31 FOs to cover deliveries, retirements and ongoing shortages. They may hire more in Nov.

They called back the last of the cadets on Thursday who they had previously dumped. They mostly got letters on Thursday last and many of them are with Ryanair. They are all expected to come straight back.

A friend's son is one of the Cadets at Ryanair who is jumping back to EI. My friend pleaded with his son to stay at FR where he was due to get his command soon. But the young fella has dreams of wearing the Shamrock and swanning around JFK. I wonder who will be first to get dumped in the future when Aer Lingus hits a rocky patch!

As someone who used to work for Aer Lingus and is a happy pensioner I think the new pay deal and extra pension for me is great - but commercial suicide. While Willie took the hard decisions - it seems DM is giving away the shop to the unions ahead of an Irish election.

Regretfully I would have to back Ryanair every time to beat the bejaysus out of EI in Dublin.

Last edited by thebrother; 2nd Jul 2006 at 07:13.
thebrother is offline  
Old 1st Jul 2006, 18:07
  #38 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Over there.
Posts: 186
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by thebrother
A colleague in EI tells me that they are short 27 Capts and 26 FOS to fly the A330 line from April 2007. There are some yawning gaps in roster cover in Aug and Sep 06 but they hope to bend or ignore IAA on this problem. They will be looking for type rated or easy conversion guys for these positions.
All A330 positions are filled internally from movement from the A320 fleet according to the seniority process.
Originally Posted by thebrother
They called back the cadets on Thursday who they had previously dumped. They mostly got letters on Thursday and many of them are with Ryanair.
The ex-cadets all got their recall letters many weeks ago.
INLAK is offline  
Old 2nd Jul 2006, 11:08
  #39 (permalink)  
Boy
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Europe
Posts: 64
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
As far as I can make out every single fact posted above by thebrother is wrong. No surprise then that all of the judgments are, at best, questionable and that some other posts he has made in the past share the same characteristics.

How can somebody come along here and confidently annonce things as "fact" - without a single word of qualification - when even a basic familiarity with the matters at hand demonstrate he is talking hogwash?

Looks like thebrother is another of those who make up for their ignorance by making emphatic and confident assertions. Trouble is, that does not make them true, nor does it make him "informed".
Boy is offline  
Old 2nd Jul 2006, 18:27
  #40 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: balbriggan, ireland
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Boy - I think you would like to believe I am wrong but my analysis is the same as today's Sunday Times and Irish Sunday Independent. Aer Lingus has been hijacked by Irish unions who are managing to turn back many of the changes made by WW. That is the reality. Paying all your staff lots of extra money to allow you to partially float the company is not exactly wise business practice.
1. Aer Lingus does not have enough pilots to fly the line this August.
2. They are seeking type rated A330 pilots to get around the shortage of type rating training resource available. You may not like this binning of "seniority" but what you would like to happen and what is happening are entirely different matters.
3. The Aer Lingus "Seniority" means last in and first out. When the renewed waste comes back to haunt EI the first to lose their jobs will be the "Cadets" who are just returning from other airlines. That is the reality - what you imagine life to be Boy - well that I guess is just Siptu or other trade union propoganda.
It is all fine and dandy wandering around Dublin with your Shamrock badge and the funny EI Hat - but where will that get you when the next downturn hits EI in 2008 and you lose your job and you hold a worthless A330 rating.
Sure SIPTU and other unions have got EI pilots some jam today but I think most people realise that it is not sustainable.
thebrother is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.