tiggerific_69

Dash, i hope you'll let us all know the outcome of tuesday's meeting with WW

angelorange

According to FT today: "BA Connect has a workforce of 1900. Jim French, Flybe CEO said there would be "a couple of hundred job losses""

However, they seem to see the deal as postive overall with Flybe doubling it's turnover to £600 million and greatly increasing market share at birmingham and manchester. IPO of Flybe will now be delayed till at least Summer 2008 and not before amalgamation of the two airlines.

Article goes on to describe how Flybe has made profit where BAcon did not....

It seems unlikely there will be any pilot redundancies.

All the best to those involved

Captain Correlli

When Manx first took Loganair over, LC pilots all went to the bottom of the list and stayed there. There was all the same hot air about moving to other jobs, however, then, as now, the numbers didn't add up. There are jobs about to be sure, but not hundreds of them, not to mention the geography and family lives of people concerned. It was much much later, (rightly or wrongly) when Brymon came along, and Logy and Brymon people filled the BALPA CC (again, rightly or wrongly, cos the Manxies could have stood but didn't) that a deal joining the seniority lists was sorted which was fair to everyone except the perception of the Manxies. (Understandably)
In this case though, all you have to do is consider what YOU would think if you were about to lose a place on an Emb 190 course, or a move to the LHS, both with attendant money.......or even if such a move suddenly changed from being a year or so away to being off the radar - turkeys do NOT vote for Xmas. What we must be careful of not shifting all the angst, the bitterness, the righteous indignation about sold down the river, (with or without our crap 'designer' uniforms) onto Flybe. They have the whip hand, and they will not give up their own Ts and Cs anymore than Manx did to begin with. To spout rubbish about everyone going off to find another job is just that that, RUBBISH! Otherwise as we all well know, we would have done that two, three, four years ago when the ineptitude of the Evans/DLF/Hutchings team became apparent. Spare athought for the BALPA guys and girls. Insisting on unrealistic demands won't help their best efforts. Spare athought for Flybe - in due course their senior management and pilots will be meeting us, are we really going to behave like spoilt kids whose playground is closing, or are we going to at least try to behave like professionals. This is the real world guys, and we've been in Regional Aviation to see this happen - a lot! So let's wake up, smell the coffee, and accept this is a much better deal than WW closing the outfit down. It has been inevitable since we were bought. Flybe has GOT to be a step forward, and while there may be plenty of jobs out there, there are also plenty of wannabees seeking their first step into airline jobs. Good luck to the ones who try to leave - I also remember the ones who ran out the dorr shouting hurrah who were subsequently chopped, and tried to come back with their tails between their legs. I have to say the Flybe option looks much more attractive than being a 10 airplane operation wholly owned but not integrated into BA. Particularly as it will be top-heavy with PH etc, good god, what a prospect. I am buying into the Flybe game with both hands!

..............and it may be energy better spent sympathising and supporting all our admin and ops and engineering colleagues who may not quite have the luxury of the options we are being offered!

RMC

BH, Hadn't thought about the 146..."pig pilots come from an airline called BACON". We should all be aiming for Flybe to give the kind of stability we have enjoyed to all its flight crew. The one thing we saw from our mainline pilots was that solidarity brings results.

Bacon Slicer

Well the BACON SLICER forecasted much of this,- many of you dismissed what I said and likened my posts to half empty glasses rather than half full glasses of wine! So I was right. Correctly managed a BA low cost/Regional airline could have been a major player from 2000 onwards, allowing GO to prosper would maybe have stopped FR/EASY/Baby in their tracks but that did not happen, a successful GO could have absorbed the BACX regional element and produced a major European mid to low cost player. Oh dear. What a complete mess it has turned out to be despite the efforts of some truly professional operators both landside and airside – they never listen to us as we are only pilots.

However you all should rest assured you chaps/ girls will be welcomed into one of Britain’s most progressive business and I firmly believe Jim French will deliver on his promises. You are quite lucky really as Walsh would have simply closed the airline next year anyway, trashed the airline with corporate spin, dumped the planes and made hundreds redundant.
Congratulations to Captain Corelli – (read above), he has the right attitude! However many BACON Types will have to adapt to a huge culture change, I hope you all can and it will not be easy after all this time.

No more silly disruption payments
No scheduling agreement that stunts the business
No more BAR element
No more BA worldwide travel
No more confirmed Business travel
No more 2 or 3 sector days
No more expensive BA infrastructure
No egomaniac TRE/IRS’s in the sim
No more delaying flights for headset wipes for the Captain for instance! You know who!

Instead you will find a very different culture at FlyBe-

Yes- allows you to take a sensible amount of fuel
Yes -does not leave the crews worried about what will appear on the digital flight monitoring system.
Yes- no uniform in the sim!
Yes - lets you feel part of a progressive company
Yes- no more career driven ex (failed) pilots in management positions like Hutchings / Deacon / Phelan who all thinks Waterside beckons. Not.

And the best thing ever – you don’t have to wear those silly hats anymore!!!!!!!!

Have fun flying again- you will.

Welcome to commercial aviation!


Captain Bacon Slicer retired.

tiggerific_69

Dont forget delaying flights for full fat milk too!!!

EGCC4284

Captain Correlli said

You are so correct on this one.

I understand for someone who has not been with BA Connect very long, this is good news. But for those who have been in the RHS or LHS of a 145, some concern about what they are going to be flying in the near future and how much are they going to be paid for doing so.

For those who have been with BA Connect for 12 months or so on the RHS of a Dash and were hoping to jump across to a shiny Barbie jet and a £13000 pay rise, they have to realise that at least they have not just lost their jobs and that are plenty of wannabes wishing they were in their shoes right now.

Sorry if this seems a bit blunt.

Those that my thoughts are with most are all the office staff at Didsbury, the BA Connect engineers, the push back crews and all those dispatchers who are in a far more uncertain situation. Flybe's aircraft will need pilots and cabin crew so you will have a breathing space to look for another job if it doesn't suit many.

I am not a pilot yet but an observer from the ramp.

fmgc

How about "No Scheduling Agreement" so you wont have a home life?

Scheduling Agreements are good for everybody.

BluffOldSeaDog

Loosing staff travel can be accepted, but loosing our scheduling argreement is something else entirely

Tandemrotor

Bacon Slicer

Excellent contribution!

You do make me laugh! You are too stupid to see the irony in your own posts!

WOW, how progressive is that!!!

Do me a favour you coward, and wind your neck in before you give any more of my colleagues, and friends any more good news!!!

puddle-jumper2

There is a schedule agreement, it's not the best but is getting better.

HOVIS

"The routes formerly flown by BACon will be flown by Flybe - that sounds like a transfer of undertaking to me.."

It wasn't when BACX took over all the BAR routes. Theres was no TUPE there.

AHA2218

Anyone heard any news on the engineering side?

Tandemrotor

Actually HOVIS, I think you may be incorrect.

I believe the cabin crew at least, were protected for exactly two years.

Dash-7 lover

AHA2218.

All I can say is wait for the meeting Tue but even then we won't have all the answers. As I've said to my colleagues, go straight to your line manager with your aims and aspirations and take concerns to your staff rep to be raised asap.

Bacon Slicer

Tandemrotor, dave

My whole point about what I say is "commercial Aviation" i.e. you have to make money. BACX/BACON is constructed so that it is not possible. By culture, by remit, by definition. I am no coward, I have first hand exposure to both organisations - FlyBe is not perfect but is a very viable business unlike the awful flea ridden BA lapdog that is BACON. Lots of good people work at BACON -things will change soon for the better for them and the business. At least they will know where they are as opposed to the situation of constant limbo that BA PLC has held them in for so long! No more and no less.

The good news Tandemrotor is that you have the "news"

HairyYellowButt

Bacon Slicer isn't an exception. Over the last 2 years most of the high calibre pilots in BACon have found better jobs elsewhere. As a result, Flybe will inherit a lot of BACon's odd-balls.

Megaton

Just as I was leaving FlyBE, a certain ex-BACX manager was trying to reduce the amount of fuel that was carried. Don't know how far he got with that plan! Shame realy because tankering for multi-sector trips was the only way you had any hope of completing a 6 sector day with 25 minute turnrounds on time.

IIRC FlyBE's flight deck monitoring system was bought from BA but is used in a more punitive fashion without the benefit of SESMA reps and BALPA to soften the blow.

Roster stability? You're having a laugh!

Good luck.

Cuillin

Just for info (from an outsider) but I am pretty sure Air UK Leisure pilots were able to keep their seniority when they were taken over by Air 2000 (First Choice) some years ago.

The argument from BALPA was that Leisure didn't go bust - they were bought out - so why should pilots (who had no control over it) have their careers severely affected by it? Wasn't such good news for Air 2000 crews but that was the downside of their management buying a solvent company.

It all sounds very similar.

PS.
Jim French is probably aware of this as he was, in a previous life, employed by Air UK.

jonseagull

When UK liesure was integrated into Air 2000 the seniority lists were merged dependent on the relevant size of the two companies. Practically this meant 4 Air 2000 pilots for every one Liesure pilot. Thus the impact on Air 2000 crews was minimised and it retained relative seniority for everyone. If you where half way up either list you where still half way up the "new" airline list.
No takeover is ever completely amicable but this was as good as it gets !
As for TUPE, we at Air 2 inherited Liesures 20 year pay scale and got ourselves a union!