FlyBe to acquire BA Connect (Crew thread - no spotters)
Gender Faculty Specialist
Bugspeed. I don't think I'm a "deluded soul". I suspect that if this was the other way around, BACon taking over Flybe, I would be sent packing to the bottom of your seniority list without so much as a by your leave.
The "deluded souls" at Flybe wont accept a merge of the lists, no way. Can you remind me again what the "deluded souls" at BA did when they took over the likes of City Flyer? Yup, to the bottom you go.
You say merging lists would restore some faith in people management. From your point of view yes, but not ours! Which ever way it goes Flybe will still end up with a 50% hit rate for pissing of it's flight deck.
Rubbish. People are leaving, mainly from the Q400, because they want to go and get dragged around the sky by an Airbus (I guess because they have a real inferiority/small willy complex about flying a turboprop). They want to earn more money quickly and they can't be bothered to wait for a command. Oh, and they obviously don't enjoy FLYING.
Cheeky visual, we do have a scheduling agreement and disruption. Yes they're not great but they will get better.
The "deluded souls" at Flybe wont accept a merge of the lists, no way. Can you remind me again what the "deluded souls" at BA did when they took over the likes of City Flyer? Yup, to the bottom you go.
You say merging lists would restore some faith in people management. From your point of view yes, but not ours! Which ever way it goes Flybe will still end up with a 50% hit rate for pissing of it's flight deck.
JSY's t's and c's are non-existent which is why Flybe staff are leaving
Cheeky visual, we do have a scheduling agreement and disruption. Yes they're not great but they will get better.
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Chesty old boy, you just don't get it do you? People ARE leaving flybe because the terms and conditions are better at the proper lo cost operators, not the low salary operators. This is why ALL of us in BACON are looking elsewhere.
People aren't going to accept the few crumbs thrown at us by Jim French when you can get a job with likes of easy/Ryan for double the money for F/o's and have a STABLE ROSTER = life outside work. Amazing how the flybe clowns say that any kind of proper rostering would cost them too much. How on earth do easyJet make their money?
I'm sorry I've never been able to understand the love of flying/fly for food brigade. It doesn't pay the mortgage or the bills.
If you aspire to prostitution, at least aspire to be a high class hooker, not a tuppeny street whore!
People aren't going to accept the few crumbs thrown at us by Jim French when you can get a job with likes of easy/Ryan for double the money for F/o's and have a STABLE ROSTER = life outside work. Amazing how the flybe clowns say that any kind of proper rostering would cost them too much. How on earth do easyJet make their money?
I'm sorry I've never been able to understand the love of flying/fly for food brigade. It doesn't pay the mortgage or the bills.
If you aspire to prostitution, at least aspire to be a high class hooker, not a tuppeny street whore!
Gender Faculty Specialist
SV, I do get it old boy, I spoke to most of the people (Q400) who left my base before they went. Money and Type Rating were the 2 main reasons for them leaving. Lifestyle and salary are seperate kettles of fish. And I can guarantee you that the ones who have left would still have left even if they'd been on a 5 - 3 roster. Fact. The Q400 is a turboprop isn't it? How many newly qualified CPLs do you know who'd want to spend the next 5 years flying it before they got a sniff at the Emb 195 or a command? None, they want to go and fly big shiny Boeings (because it's a jet) and the like and earn more money NOW.
The trouble is, there will ALWAYS be someone earning more than you so get used to it and stop comparing yourself to them.
I'm sorry, but because I enjoy flying means I don't benefit from it aswell? Hey I love flying. that's why I do it. I own 2 houses. Work that one out you twit.
The trouble is, there will ALWAYS be someone earning more than you so get used to it and stop comparing yourself to them.
I'm sorry I've never been able to understand the love of flying/fly for food brigade. It doesn't pay the mortgage or the bills.
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Calm down now, ladies.
If there's one thing that the Flybe folks have in common with the BACon folks, it's this:
They'll get the deal they're given and not much chance to change it.
I'm waiting to see what the deal is. If it's ok I'll stick around- if not then toodle-pip. Same applies to all of us, right?
Can't decide tho' until I see the deal.
If there's one thing that the Flybe folks have in common with the BACon folks, it's this:
They'll get the deal they're given and not much chance to change it.
I'm waiting to see what the deal is. If it's ok I'll stick around- if not then toodle-pip. Same applies to all of us, right?
Can't decide tho' until I see the deal.
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Chesty old boy I am sorry to burst your bubble, but after discussing the issues of the “giveaway” of BACON with one of our very helpful union reps your in for a disappointment over seniority! Word from Exeter is that the Flybe CC agree that its not acceptable to dump one group at the bottom of the list, and although he could not go into detail it appears that a form of seniority merger is on the cards. It was also mentioned that Flybe management are looking into setting up a scheduling agreement in the lines of the BACON agreement. It appears that Big Jim wants to try and hang onto pilots. Another mention was that all BACON FO’s with the hours will be promoted over the next 12 months! As apparently they have very few experienced FO’s as rumour has it 130 left last year and the majority of the Flybe seniority list has only joined in the last few years at most.
With this in mind I would imagine that Flybe will be bending over backwards to retain as much of the BACON training department as possible, all senior people who are not going to take much sh*t especially if the current perks disappear
How reliable this information is, who knows but I don’t see that BALPA has a reason to lie to us, and info from insiders across the fence seem to corroborate some info. We have been swimming in muddy water for a while, lets just hope we haven’t just found the sewage outlet.
With this in mind I would imagine that Flybe will be bending over backwards to retain as much of the BACON training department as possible, all senior people who are not going to take much sh*t especially if the current perks disappear
How reliable this information is, who knows but I don’t see that BALPA has a reason to lie to us, and info from insiders across the fence seem to corroborate some info. We have been swimming in muddy water for a while, lets just hope we haven’t just found the sewage outlet.
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Rubbish. People are leaving, mainly from the Q400, because they want to go and get dragged around the sky by an Airbus (I guess because they have a real inferiority/small willy complex about flying a turboprop). They want to earn more money quickly and they can't be bothered to wait for a command. Oh, and they obviously don't enjoy FLYING.
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I have been reading this thread with interest.
I have heard the same as Torycanyon and Co, that the Bacon Crews will go to the bottom of the seniority list. What the CC's would like to happen is a different matter entirely. If our CC sell us a Pup then you can guarantee there will be an even greater haemorrhaging of crews than there is now and the Flybe Balpa membership will plummet. The T&G are becoming a much stronger Union within Flybe and more Pilots are joining as the Balpa reps are weak and not looking after the interests of the membership.
If Flybe want to retain what remaining crews they have left, then anything but inviting the Bacon crews on board without going to the bottom of the list will be corporate suicide.
I have heard the same as Torycanyon and Co, that the Bacon Crews will go to the bottom of the seniority list. What the CC's would like to happen is a different matter entirely. If our CC sell us a Pup then you can guarantee there will be an even greater haemorrhaging of crews than there is now and the Flybe Balpa membership will plummet. The T&G are becoming a much stronger Union within Flybe and more Pilots are joining as the Balpa reps are weak and not looking after the interests of the membership.
If Flybe want to retain what remaining crews they have left, then anything but inviting the Bacon crews on board without going to the bottom of the list will be corporate suicide.
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Hey airshredder. You know what I don't give a toss. Cos if I'm not pay protected at my current salary level, I won't even be turning up after the end of my BACON contract. Only newbies and dorks would get out of bed for flymonkey RHS turbo prop pay!
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Guys and Gals, there will only be one winner if you start bickering amongst yourselfs and thats the management! I have been in the unfortunate position of a takeover and its not pleasant when fellow pilots form the taking over airline look at you as if you are some kind of low life that is legal to rape! Both sides need to get together and make a reasonable agreement then present your COMBINED agreement to the management. Be realistic and compassionate and you will all secure your futures.
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FlyBe handling
Could be.
Flybe use handling agents at all airports, even our main bases.
We do have some ticket desk staff at the big hubs, in house engineering at bases, and the odd base supervisor. Cant see this changing as thats the point of the LOWCOST model so when the takeover of bacon is complete the rest of the above may not have a place in the new structure as at most of the non london airports there will be no other BA presence.
However the bacon fleet could well be around till 2009 and will need support so the ground staff may be around till then (maybe).
http://www.nextgenerationairline.co.uk
Flybe use handling agents at all airports, even our main bases.
We do have some ticket desk staff at the big hubs, in house engineering at bases, and the odd base supervisor. Cant see this changing as thats the point of the LOWCOST model so when the takeover of bacon is complete the rest of the above may not have a place in the new structure as at most of the non london airports there will be no other BA presence.
However the bacon fleet could well be around till 2009 and will need support so the ground staff may be around till then (maybe).
http://www.nextgenerationairline.co.uk
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Red Wings,
For the reassurance of Flybe folks reading this; you are - officially - talking sh!7e !! If the Bacon cc think they are going to walk into Flybe and start dictating terms, theyre sadly mistaken. Their job is about claiming the best bits from their own wreckage. the flybe cc was alreday on a roll and are expected to make the most of it.
By all means come along for the ride, but you ain't getting a drive!
For the reassurance of Flybe folks reading this; you are - officially - talking sh!7e !! If the Bacon cc think they are going to walk into Flybe and start dictating terms, theyre sadly mistaken. Their job is about claiming the best bits from their own wreckage. the flybe cc was alreday on a roll and are expected to make the most of it.
By all means come along for the ride, but you ain't getting a drive!
Thread Starter
Smokie,
If a number of the Flybe crew are joining the T&G because they see the BALPA reps as weak, why don't some of these people stick with BALPA, stand to be reps themselves and show that they can do a better job?
Oh, of course, the old excuses:-
"I would if it wasn't for the kids. My wife doesn't want me spending all night doing emails. I just don't have the time. I'll help out, but I don't want to stick my head above the parapet......"
The reps are volunteers, they will be under extreme pressure form all sides and probably shouldn't even be flying. They are prepared to stick their necks above the parapet, so support them now! If you think they are not up to the job, stand yourself.
As for the "over my dead body get to the bottom of the list brigade", for goodness sake grow up. You can shout all you like on here, but I can assure you, you are in the minority. Through no fault of their own, BAcon crew have been through several messy mergers over the last few years and have heard all the arguments time and time again. if you bring these attitudes into work then you might find that regardless of your position on a list, you are not flying for quite some time. People are sick and tired of endless corporate shuffling and they will not tolerate any childish nonsense in the workplace. You will be replaced on the line line and if these sort of attitudes are taken into training, it will not be pleasant for YOU.
Flybe will need trainers big time and the ones they are inheriting from Bacon are on the whole, very competent and well respected with huge amounts of experience (they have to be to have survived all the SOP changes). They are fair, but they are also very angry about the way in which their various companies have been wrecked by self serving fat cat managers. Chage your attitudes or you might find yourselves on the naughty seat.
If a number of the Flybe crew are joining the T&G because they see the BALPA reps as weak, why don't some of these people stick with BALPA, stand to be reps themselves and show that they can do a better job?
Oh, of course, the old excuses:-
"I would if it wasn't for the kids. My wife doesn't want me spending all night doing emails. I just don't have the time. I'll help out, but I don't want to stick my head above the parapet......"
The reps are volunteers, they will be under extreme pressure form all sides and probably shouldn't even be flying. They are prepared to stick their necks above the parapet, so support them now! If you think they are not up to the job, stand yourself.
As for the "over my dead body get to the bottom of the list brigade", for goodness sake grow up. You can shout all you like on here, but I can assure you, you are in the minority. Through no fault of their own, BAcon crew have been through several messy mergers over the last few years and have heard all the arguments time and time again. if you bring these attitudes into work then you might find that regardless of your position on a list, you are not flying for quite some time. People are sick and tired of endless corporate shuffling and they will not tolerate any childish nonsense in the workplace. You will be replaced on the line line and if these sort of attitudes are taken into training, it will not be pleasant for YOU.
Flybe will need trainers big time and the ones they are inheriting from Bacon are on the whole, very competent and well respected with huge amounts of experience (they have to be to have survived all the SOP changes). They are fair, but they are also very angry about the way in which their various companies have been wrecked by self serving fat cat managers. Chage your attitudes or you might find yourselves on the naughty seat.
Last edited by biddedout; 19th Nov 2006 at 23:33.
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Fred
Just passing on what info I have heard, but if and I hope not, yours is the attitude of all flybe pilots then I think come March many regional airports will be making a lot of money in parking fees when over half the combined flybe fleet is grounded!
If we are all sensible and work together we have a chance to build an excellent company that will be a pleasure to be part of.
So lets try and look at it from both sides for the common good. For the record it is not a complete take over if you read the small print BA will own 15% and have a member on the board! ie a controlling interest so flybe will effectively be part of the BA group. Which may bring the benefits such as staff travel, but may prevent expansion that effects the Mecca of LHR which was one of BACON’s major difficulties.
Of course this assumes the deal goes through! We will just have to see what happens in the coming months, and hopefully it will be a deal that also looks after all our colleagues on the ground who are at the moment faced with a very uncertain future.
Just passing on what info I have heard, but if and I hope not, yours is the attitude of all flybe pilots then I think come March many regional airports will be making a lot of money in parking fees when over half the combined flybe fleet is grounded!
If we are all sensible and work together we have a chance to build an excellent company that will be a pleasure to be part of.
So lets try and look at it from both sides for the common good. For the record it is not a complete take over if you read the small print BA will own 15% and have a member on the board! ie a controlling interest so flybe will effectively be part of the BA group. Which may bring the benefits such as staff travel, but may prevent expansion that effects the Mecca of LHR which was one of BACON’s major difficulties.
Of course this assumes the deal goes through! We will just have to see what happens in the coming months, and hopefully it will be a deal that also looks after all our colleagues on the ground who are at the moment faced with a very uncertain future.
Gender Faculty Specialist
Redwings
No skin off my nose old boy, I'm sitting here fat dumb and happy with my EMB course already sorted. I'm merely passing on the general feeling of the majority of flight deck. 130 f/o's did not leave last year. A lot did, yes. And a lot also got promoted. That is the reason we are short of ANYBODY to promote and why a lot of the BACon guys are going to get Q400 commands.
Pidge, good for you and the missus! At least you waited for your command on a turboprop, seemingly, and that is the problem currently facing Flybe management, and also what the latest pay offer is aimed at. I wasn't having a dig at jets in general, just Airbus 'cos, personally, I don't like them. I do have several thousand hours on heavy jets and I enjoyed every minute. However, I like my current job more.
Biddeout
Not from where I'm standing. From what I can glean from crew room gossip the majority feeling is you go to the bottom.
Can anyone tell me what kind of payrise BACon f/o's will be getting when they get a command on the Q400?
Chesty old boy I am sorry to burst your bubble, but after discussing the issues of the “giveaway” of BACON with one of our very helpful union reps your in for a disappointment over seniority!
Pidge, good for you and the missus! At least you waited for your command on a turboprop, seemingly, and that is the problem currently facing Flybe management, and also what the latest pay offer is aimed at. I wasn't having a dig at jets in general, just Airbus 'cos, personally, I don't like them. I do have several thousand hours on heavy jets and I enjoyed every minute. However, I like my current job more.
Biddeout
As for the "over my dead body get to the bottom of the list brigade", for goodness sake grow up. You can shout all you like on here, but I can assure you, you are in the minority
Can anyone tell me what kind of payrise BACon f/o's will be getting when they get a command on the Q400?
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Chesty
I dont know the exact flybe pay scales maybe you would like to tell us! But from the prices on ppjn roughly 6 grand which for an extra 150 hours a year and more responsibility, less duty pay and I guess a base move, is not great, but ok if thats what a person wants to do.
I dont know the exact flybe pay scales maybe you would like to tell us! But from the prices on ppjn roughly 6 grand which for an extra 150 hours a year and more responsibility, less duty pay and I guess a base move, is not great, but ok if thats what a person wants to do.
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Nobody will get on the 195 in 5 years. Your in dream land!! 15 years plus for a command on the jungle jet. Not worth waiting for to earn 52 grand. Don't worry about staff travel, Flybe's staff travel department is managed by Steph ....... and well known throughout the travel industry as being one of the best in the business. (Both Steph and the department) 10 times better than BAcon's staff benefits.
Flybe is a low cost operator. 6 sector days working to max hours, don't forget that. That is the only way an Airline will survive these days. That is why everyone should get out and work the same amount for proper money. Not fly for food.
The 5 TRE's that have just left Flybe have led by example. Follow them and give what I'm saying a try. I bet you won't regret it.
Flybe is a low cost operator. 6 sector days working to max hours, don't forget that. That is the only way an Airline will survive these days. That is why everyone should get out and work the same amount for proper money. Not fly for food.
The 5 TRE's that have just left Flybe have led by example. Follow them and give what I'm saying a try. I bet you won't regret it.
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Getting it
Someone back down the thread accused me of not getting it. I can tell you who is - all your managers.
Divide & Rule is meat & drink to them. Get together & produce a concerted team effort & you ALL stand a chance of producing sensible outcome.
Bickering among yourselves & making statements like "You'll be stuck on the bottom of the list so get used to it", is not only stupid but music to management ears.
By the way, my suggestion about the press was about the ground staff not pilots & so is irellevant to Flybe management.
Divide & Rule is meat & drink to them. Get together & produce a concerted team effort & you ALL stand a chance of producing sensible outcome.
Bickering among yourselves & making statements like "You'll be stuck on the bottom of the list so get used to it", is not only stupid but music to management ears.
By the way, my suggestion about the press was about the ground staff not pilots & so is irellevant to Flybe management.
Thread Starter
Hudson,
I think the general idea is that the 195 will be put into bases where they are needed and unless people are prepared to move, it will be inhabited by those people who are aready in those bases, or at least that's how it normally works. Can't see Mr F keeping them all in the Southwest just to keep a few pilots happy.
I also hear that it is a very much shortened AND CHEAPER conversion for former baby Barbie pilots, and Mr F is not unaware of the potential savings.
I think the general idea is that the 195 will be put into bases where they are needed and unless people are prepared to move, it will be inhabited by those people who are aready in those bases, or at least that's how it normally works. Can't see Mr F keeping them all in the Southwest just to keep a few pilots happy.
I also hear that it is a very much shortened AND CHEAPER conversion for former baby Barbie pilots, and Mr F is not unaware of the potential savings.