Virgin Atlantic Master thread volume 2
aka Capt PPRuNe
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Could anyone who currently works at virgin post on a typical roster at virgin. ive read scroggs roster for the A340, id also like to hear a typical roster on the 744.
Standby all month!
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I have been an FO with BA for 2 years and am considering Virgin when recruitment resumes. A lot of info on this thread, but I miss a few critical bits of info:
1. FO take home salary: How much is it once on the line on a typical month if you contribute normally to your pension (6%) (As a guide, BA is between £3200 and £4000, depending on trips and leave). I'd be very greatful if a new FO would have time to answer this. It's a vital point because my immediate problem will be to pay my mortgage.
2. Training/Management: How is the atmosphere during initial training and with the trainers: Are they friendly or choppy ? Same for management: Is there a no blame culture or will you feel threatened if you make a mistake. (BA is very, very good with both and I would miss the feeling of security this brings)
3. CRM: How much rope do you get as a copilot ? Do Captains tend to leave you to manage most aspects of your sector or will they want you to do exactly what they want even when you're perfectly fine, thereby not letting you expand and enjoy ? Is the vast proportion of air force backgrounds driving the company towards good CRM or single seater CRM ? (BA is average on that and where a large proportion of guys have fantastic CRM, those who don't make you feel miserable for a few days.
The monitored approach makes the matter worse and the company's reluctance to address CRM means things won't change. Plus the RHS is yours for 15y min, so I won't miss this if I leave)
1. FO take home salary: How much is it once on the line on a typical month if you contribute normally to your pension (6%) (As a guide, BA is between £3200 and £4000, depending on trips and leave). I'd be very greatful if a new FO would have time to answer this. It's a vital point because my immediate problem will be to pay my mortgage.
2. Training/Management: How is the atmosphere during initial training and with the trainers: Are they friendly or choppy ? Same for management: Is there a no blame culture or will you feel threatened if you make a mistake. (BA is very, very good with both and I would miss the feeling of security this brings)
3. CRM: How much rope do you get as a copilot ? Do Captains tend to leave you to manage most aspects of your sector or will they want you to do exactly what they want even when you're perfectly fine, thereby not letting you expand and enjoy ? Is the vast proportion of air force backgrounds driving the company towards good CRM or single seater CRM ? (BA is average on that and where a large proportion of guys have fantastic CRM, those who don't make you feel miserable for a few days.
The monitored approach makes the matter worse and the company's reluctance to address CRM means things won't change. Plus the RHS is yours for 15y min, so I won't miss this if I leave)
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I'm pretty new to BA as well, but already I've heard of 3 guys who have been with the company for less than a year leaving, at least one to Virgin. All have put in their resignations since Christmas.
Reasons given are the same; 750hrs/yr vs 900 ; broadly comparable pay despite that for a new joiner ; a pension which is almost 30% better! (surely there isn't THAT big a difference?) ; a decent chance of command within a reasonable timescale.
Must have been a shock to BA's management who still seem to think that theirs is the only airline of choice for anyone after a job. Virgin does seem to be a happy company to work for though. Pity I wasn't good enough to get there
Reasons given are the same; 750hrs/yr vs 900 ; broadly comparable pay despite that for a new joiner ; a pension which is almost 30% better! (surely there isn't THAT big a difference?) ; a decent chance of command within a reasonable timescale.
Must have been a shock to BA's management who still seem to think that theirs is the only airline of choice for anyone after a job. Virgin does seem to be a happy company to work for though. Pity I wasn't good enough to get there
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Demobcurious,
Well, I am not surprised. I believe another factor must be the relationship with Cabin Crew. For those considering BA, listen to this : on shorthaul, our cabin crew fly a different pattern to us which means that on a 3 sector day, you'll have 3 lots of crews onboard. The most you'll keep them is 2 sectors. So the CSD/Purser really is the boss down there. When coming onboard, most main crew won't say hello. Some won't even look at you if you're in the galley as they walk in. As a copilot, this can become rather frustrating as the dispatcher may also forget to shake your hand and you feel you're a nobody. Then if the captain is the same (rare, but happens, as previously described), you feel like screaming out of the DV window. Very sad indeed. In fact most people are OK but the company has let things slide the way of the cabin crew and our communities are segmented in a way that is sad to see. On long haul apparently it gets worse...
From what I understand this is much better at Virgin and I would be looking forward to their operation in that respect.
In the mean time, I have found some more info on the threads, Vol 1 about pay, and so it all seems to be very similar: Virgin now gets £45000+£12000= 57 000 + Allowances and at BA it is 45000+13000= £58000 + Allowances. I guess the difference I see on my relatively high take home is that I do a bit of draft and also don't spend all my allowances. Anyway, not a very big difference, especially when you consider SH command in 15y+ at BA ( I'll be 47!) and in 20y+ LH (I'll be 52!!!) when it is just 8y at Virgin giving me a hope for LH command at 45 if I made it reasonably soon !
Altogether, it seems like a no brainer really. Same pay, better pension, fewer hours, better atmosphere...
If anyone would have answers to my last two questions, I would be most greatful !
Well, I am not surprised. I believe another factor must be the relationship with Cabin Crew. For those considering BA, listen to this : on shorthaul, our cabin crew fly a different pattern to us which means that on a 3 sector day, you'll have 3 lots of crews onboard. The most you'll keep them is 2 sectors. So the CSD/Purser really is the boss down there. When coming onboard, most main crew won't say hello. Some won't even look at you if you're in the galley as they walk in. As a copilot, this can become rather frustrating as the dispatcher may also forget to shake your hand and you feel you're a nobody. Then if the captain is the same (rare, but happens, as previously described), you feel like screaming out of the DV window. Very sad indeed. In fact most people are OK but the company has let things slide the way of the cabin crew and our communities are segmented in a way that is sad to see. On long haul apparently it gets worse...
From what I understand this is much better at Virgin and I would be looking forward to their operation in that respect.
In the mean time, I have found some more info on the threads, Vol 1 about pay, and so it all seems to be very similar: Virgin now gets £45000+£12000= 57 000 + Allowances and at BA it is 45000+13000= £58000 + Allowances. I guess the difference I see on my relatively high take home is that I do a bit of draft and also don't spend all my allowances. Anyway, not a very big difference, especially when you consider SH command in 15y+ at BA ( I'll be 47!) and in 20y+ LH (I'll be 52!!!) when it is just 8y at Virgin giving me a hope for LH command at 45 if I made it reasonably soon !
Altogether, it seems like a no brainer really. Same pay, better pension, fewer hours, better atmosphere...
If anyone would have answers to my last two questions, I would be most greatful !
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I joined recently, so I can't really answer too many questions.
What I would say is this:
Everyone, but everyone has been nothing short of friendly.That goes for Management, trainers and crew.
Money, dunno, but it seems fair enough.
Pension. Yes, we have one and it IS better than BA's. In fact , it is MUCH better in respect that 15% of basic PLUS variable pay goes in. i.e. you put in 6%, VS put in 15% of the £57000.
750 HOURS A YEAR.Nothing is forever in aviation, but this is a REAL keeper of pilots and lifestyle. It allows people to have a quality of life that is better than BA.
Benefits seems very fair and generous. Staff travel seems straightforward and honest. Insurances and the like are pretty much identical to elsewhere.
Time to Command? Not sure if I believe it is as low as 8 years currently. Recruiting has slowed and retirement has been raised to 65. More like 12 or so I "GUESS".
All in all, I can't see anywhere better in the UK to fly. Put it this way, I never, ever applied to BA......... that tells you all you need to know, when combined with the number of applicants from Virgin to BA each year. i.e. NONE.
What I would say is this:
Everyone, but everyone has been nothing short of friendly.That goes for Management, trainers and crew.
Money, dunno, but it seems fair enough.
Pension. Yes, we have one and it IS better than BA's. In fact , it is MUCH better in respect that 15% of basic PLUS variable pay goes in. i.e. you put in 6%, VS put in 15% of the £57000.
750 HOURS A YEAR.Nothing is forever in aviation, but this is a REAL keeper of pilots and lifestyle. It allows people to have a quality of life that is better than BA.
Benefits seems very fair and generous. Staff travel seems straightforward and honest. Insurances and the like are pretty much identical to elsewhere.
Time to Command? Not sure if I believe it is as low as 8 years currently. Recruiting has slowed and retirement has been raised to 65. More like 12 or so I "GUESS".
All in all, I can't see anywhere better in the UK to fly. Put it this way, I never, ever applied to BA......... that tells you all you need to know, when combined with the number of applicants from Virgin to BA each year. i.e. NONE.
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Speedbird,
I am in a bit of a unique position, in that I have not done any flying on the line yet due to a "slight mishap" (Injury).
Without flying, took home £3k last month.
There IS more to life than just money. Virgin really is a good gig. Remember that ON TOP of any take home pay you get (which will be higher than I just mentioned), you also get CASH allowances downroute, so little need to dig into your own reserves there !
So, if the take home at BA is higher, it's only because you do 20% more work and therefore receive more allowances...... your pay is virtually no different at all.
I am looking forward to getting online and am sure that life is gonna be GRRRRRREAT!!!
Just look at how many people leave Virgin. It is virtually unheard of.
I am in a bit of a unique position, in that I have not done any flying on the line yet due to a "slight mishap" (Injury).
Without flying, took home £3k last month.
There IS more to life than just money. Virgin really is a good gig. Remember that ON TOP of any take home pay you get (which will be higher than I just mentioned), you also get CASH allowances downroute, so little need to dig into your own reserves there !
So, if the take home at BA is higher, it's only because you do 20% more work and therefore receive more allowances...... your pay is virtually no different at all.
I am looking forward to getting online and am sure that life is gonna be GRRRRRREAT!!!
Just look at how many people leave Virgin. It is virtually unheard of.
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Speedbird451, please keep the topic to Virgin Atlantic on this thread; as you've already discovered, there is an existing 'BA vs Virgin' thread on which the T&Cs can be directly compared. Also, all the questions you've asked have already been answered - some on only the previous page of this thread. There is the entire Mk1 version of this thread to go through also...
On the pension, as already stated, Virgin pay 15% on the entire 59k (2007 figures), so long as you contribute a minimum of 6%. There is a sliding, pro-rata scale below that. If you wish to pay more than 6%, I understand that there is effectively now no upper limit. Many who have been here since before pensions legislation changed pay 15%, making a total of 30% of gross pay going into the pension fund - which is entirely independent of Virgin, and is not affected by the company's fate. Investment within the fund can be left to the trustees, or, through Fundrider or similar, you can control it yourself. Some people have done very well at this!
There's a great deal more info to be found here, so get a beer and do some reading!
Scroggs
On the pension, as already stated, Virgin pay 15% on the entire 59k (2007 figures), so long as you contribute a minimum of 6%. There is a sliding, pro-rata scale below that. If you wish to pay more than 6%, I understand that there is effectively now no upper limit. Many who have been here since before pensions legislation changed pay 15%, making a total of 30% of gross pay going into the pension fund - which is entirely independent of Virgin, and is not affected by the company's fate. Investment within the fund can be left to the trustees, or, through Fundrider or similar, you can control it yourself. Some people have done very well at this!
There's a great deal more info to be found here, so get a beer and do some reading!
Scroggs
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Recruitment Process
Hi,
Just wondered if someone could let me know the recruitment process and what to expect or please point me to a link that has this information. It would be great to have a head's up so I can prepare, assuming I am lucky enough to be invited for interview.
Thanks very much.
Just wondered if someone could let me know the recruitment process and what to expect or please point me to a link that has this information. It would be great to have a head's up so I can prepare, assuming I am lucky enough to be invited for interview.
Thanks very much.
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Recruitment open- looks like you need a Boeing/Airbus type rating, as clicking through and getting to "Military with 2500+" gets a PFO.
Link: http://gs19.globalsuccessor.com/fe/t...rmsubmit4.y=14
Link: http://gs19.globalsuccessor.com/fe/t...rmsubmit4.y=14
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Hello, Guys, I thought the recuitment would resume a tiny bit later during the year. I have 2200 hours total with 1200 on A320 with BA out of Heathrow. It will take me 5 months to get to 2500+. Do you know how long they take to invite people in ? Would it be percieved as a fraud to say you have got 2500 hours when you don't but you know you'll have them by the time you sit the interview ?
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If you apply in February with 2200 hours and get to the interview (or at least the document checking) stage in August with 2510 hours, it would be a little bit obvious, don't you think? As most Virgin pilots have 4000+ hours on selection, I suspect the question will remain hypothetical, however.
Katanaman read through this thread and follow the link to the previous one. The information you want is contained within - and a great deal else besides. That said, I have heard a suggestion that the selection procedure is changing slightly, but I have no further information at this stage.
Scroggs
Katanaman read through this thread and follow the link to the previous one. The information you want is contained within - and a great deal else besides. That said, I have heard a suggestion that the selection procedure is changing slightly, but I have no further information at this stage.
Scroggs
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Scroggs, yes I agree it is hypothectical and that it would seem obvious. The reason I am asking is that when I joined BA, during a casual chat with my interviewers, they told me they were in reality only interested in compliance with the requirements at documents checking. Knowing that could save a few weeks seniority to a few people. Just wondering whether Virgin are adamant on the hours at application or at documents checking... By the way, do you know how long it takes from application to interview ? Even though chances are slight, I think the best is to remain motivated..
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Speedbird 451, I have been applying/updating my details for the last 4 years.
I have 0ver 8000 hrs and 0ver 5000 hrs medium jets and a Bus rating.
Still no Sniff of an Interview yet!
I have 0ver 8000 hrs and 0ver 5000 hrs medium jets and a Bus rating.
Still no Sniff of an Interview yet!
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Letter today asking to re submit details.
I received a letter today from Gemma Halpin asking me to resubmit my details online. Should I read anything into this, is this a good sign? 
The application form was a bit strange and did not really ask too much of you.
The main thing I suppose, is that you upload your CV on line.
Should I have also uploaded copies of License, Ratings, Medical etc?
As the upload box reappeared after uploading the CV.
Has Gemma taken over from Janine?
The application form was a bit strange and did not really ask too much of you.
The main thing I suppose, is that you upload your CV on line.
Should I have also uploaded copies of License, Ratings, Medical etc?
As the upload box reappeared after uploading the CV.
Has Gemma taken over from Janine?
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Goldcup, from how I understand it, if you're 'military with 2500+' you can click on either the 'Airbus and/or military', or the 'Boeing and/or military' as you will fit into these categories as well!
Website's open till March I'm told....
Website's open till March I'm told....
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virgin recruitment
Does anyone have any idea realistically what the requirements are for Virgin to be invited for an interview?
I know their website specifies min 2500 hrs but do they prefer airbus rated/ military pilots and also does a letter of recommendation from within the company help to getting and interview.
Any views with regards to their criteria will be welcome.
Jetkopite
I know their website specifies min 2500 hrs but do they prefer airbus rated/ military pilots and also does a letter of recommendation from within the company help to getting and interview.
Any views with regards to their criteria will be welcome.
Jetkopite