Who are the lowest paid pilots?
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: U.K
Posts: 139
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ryanair...
Second Officer payscale... and half sector pay... Avg take home is about £2100 (based on averaging around 90-95hrs a month), and on full sector pay it seems to be about £3000-3200, but bear in mind you'll probably only get that 10/11 months of the year due to running out of hrs
Second Officer payscale... and half sector pay... Avg take home is about £2100 (based on averaging around 90-95hrs a month), and on full sector pay it seems to be about £3000-3200, but bear in mind you'll probably only get that 10/11 months of the year due to running out of hrs
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Big Whiskey
Posts: 137
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Nearly Man suggest we put Astreaus F/O pay into the frying pan.
It's zero isn't it? The F/O's are paying Astraeus £100 an hour to go flying, ie. buying 100 hours on line at £10,000, on top of the rating they have also bought.
Can't get much lower than this can it?
Blue Foot
It's zero isn't it? The F/O's are paying Astraeus £100 an hour to go flying, ie. buying 100 hours on line at £10,000, on top of the rating they have also bought.
Can't get much lower than this can it?
Blue Foot
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The Smoke
Posts: 107
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well those with no time on type will probably see the lowest salaries, and according to ppjn, the following new hire JET F/O salaries apply for those with less than 500 hours on type:
EZY - 27,000
BY - 27,283
BA - 27,500
EAL - 28,000
AEU - 29,219
BMED - 30,000
BEE - 30,686
TCX - 30,759
FCA - 31,879
GLOBESPAN - 32,000
GB - 36,438
XLA - 39,600
BMI - 40,799 (?)
MYT - 42,980 (?)
So average basic for newbie jet FO in UK seems to be around 32,500 basic if XL, BMI and MYT are correct or 30K if you exclude these.
EZY - 27,000
BY - 27,283
BA - 27,500
EAL - 28,000
AEU - 29,219
BMED - 30,000
BEE - 30,686
TCX - 30,759
FCA - 31,879
GLOBESPAN - 32,000
GB - 36,438
XLA - 39,600
BMI - 40,799 (?)
MYT - 42,980 (?)
So average basic for newbie jet FO in UK seems to be around 32,500 basic if XL, BMI and MYT are correct or 30K if you exclude these.
You guys/gals in Britain can actually pay about $130,000 US for all of your ratings...is this quite possible and typical, or does it include a full type rating? Even with two type ratings, this is baffling and almost impossible to comprehend.
What about the interest rate for the loan and how does one pay it back?
Just to consider the very high rates of income tax + the cost of living over there, if what I've read about Ryanair's pay etc are true, then your side of the industry (over there) is in trouble, depending upon whether the relative supply versus demand for pilots stays constant.
One often overlooked segment in the US industry concerns even the highly-experienced helicopter pilots who flew plenty of instrument approaches in equipment similar in complexity to twin-engine turboprops, if not more.
Even after 10 or 20 years in the US military, they still must also work for peanuts, in order to log a sufficient amount of fixed-wing time in a Beech-1900 etc, unless they were fortunate enough to also fly a King Air (C-12/T-44) or OV-10 Bronco etc.
A friend flew the Marine HH-53 and another guy flew the Navy 'version' of the Blackhawk.
What about the interest rate for the loan and how does one pay it back?
Just to consider the very high rates of income tax + the cost of living over there, if what I've read about Ryanair's pay etc are true, then your side of the industry (over there) is in trouble, depending upon whether the relative supply versus demand for pilots stays constant.
One often overlooked segment in the US industry concerns even the highly-experienced helicopter pilots who flew plenty of instrument approaches in equipment similar in complexity to twin-engine turboprops, if not more.
Even after 10 or 20 years in the US military, they still must also work for peanuts, in order to log a sufficient amount of fixed-wing time in a Beech-1900 etc, unless they were fortunate enough to also fly a King Air (C-12/T-44) or OV-10 Bronco etc.
A friend flew the Marine HH-53 and another guy flew the Navy 'version' of the Blackhawk.
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: 'An Airfield Somewhere in England'
Posts: 1,094
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Heffer - your figures are not correct and certainly for my company (easyJet)are totally misleading. The pay structures vary from airline to airline and to quote basic pay alone is very misleading. The basic pay you quote for an easyJet FO is wrong. There is no one earning £27k basic but there are 'cadets' (200 hour guys straight out of training who earn less than that for 6 months. Even then they get sector pay. An easyJet FO for example earns UKSTG £18.06 before tax for each sector flown and will typically fly 500 sectors per year. His gross sector pay will then be £9467.00 a year. The picture is quite complex due to the many different schemes but if you were to take an easyJet FO who joined as a Direct Entry Pilot who has unfrozen his ATPL and could therefore hold a full ATPL, he would earn about £50,200 now before tax including all sector pay etc. If the current pay deal goes through, then from October this year, if he had been in the company more than 3 years and he is entitled to the new 5% loyalty bonus, his pre-tax salary when flying 500 sectors a year would be about £57,700. There are also complex variations depending on whether you are TRSS (you get less!) or if you joined before March 2003 (you get more!). Nonetheless, easyJet salaries for FOs compare favourably with nearly all of the airlines you quote but they would be lower than the real competition for pilots which are Virgin and BA who you do not quote.
My point is that the figures being quoted are absolutely meaningless because they do not take into account the many variations in salary due to sector pay, loyalty bonuses, allowances and incremental annual pay rises. I am not particularly pushing the easyJet line but that is the airline I know about. No doubt all the other companies quoted have their own idiosynchrasies which completely change the picture for them too. Therefore, let the buyer beware......
My point is that the figures being quoted are absolutely meaningless because they do not take into account the many variations in salary due to sector pay, loyalty bonuses, allowances and incremental annual pay rises. I am not particularly pushing the easyJet line but that is the airline I know about. No doubt all the other companies quoted have their own idiosynchrasies which completely change the picture for them too. Therefore, let the buyer beware......
NSF, which easyJet do you work for?? 
FO/SFO sector pay is £12.86 (not £18.06), so that's £10.29 for a short sector and £15.43 for a medium sector (I've never flown a long sector).
My sector pay last year was £5000, not £9500.
Heffer's post was for new starters, with low hours (so that's our FO rate). For a cadet, it's £19k for 6 months then £21k, for TRSS it's £25k for 6 months then £28k. There's no way in other than cadet or TRSS.
For completeness, our SFO rates are: cadet £26k for 6 months then £29k, TRSS £32k for 6 months then £35k, and the full rate for those that started a while ago is £40k, or £42k if you started before March 03.
FO/SFO sector pay is £12.86 (not £18.06), so that's £10.29 for a short sector and £15.43 for a medium sector (I've never flown a long sector).
My sector pay last year was £5000, not £9500.
Heffer's post was for new starters, with low hours (so that's our FO rate). For a cadet, it's £19k for 6 months then £21k, for TRSS it's £25k for 6 months then £28k. There's no way in other than cadet or TRSS.
For completeness, our SFO rates are: cadet £26k for 6 months then £29k, TRSS £32k for 6 months then £35k, and the full rate for those that started a while ago is £40k, or £42k if you started before March 03.
Last edited by HundredPercentPlease; 24th Apr 2006 at 10:02.
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Domaine de la Romanee-Conti
Posts: 1,691
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
1 Post
Average seems to be about £20,000 - £25,000 these days, but I've heard of up to £40,000 or more for '500 hours line flying experience' type programs ...
( You are talking about the modern system of YOU pay THEM of course, as opposed to that quaint old 20th century expectation that they should actually reimburse YOU? )
( You are talking about the modern system of YOU pay THEM of course, as opposed to that quaint old 20th century expectation that they should actually reimburse YOU? )
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: where it's yellow not green
Posts: 181
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ryanair pay
this whole thread has confused me completely, but that doesn't take too much. however, i believe my confusion with ryanair pay is justified. can anyone put (after tax) figures down on a timeline for me please? all this half sector pay for 6 months plus flight pay but no allowances and no tax then make up a number and subtract it etc is hard to comprehend. if anyone can say for example - during line training £xxx --- after line training for 6 months £xxx etc etc.
i'm due to start type rating in july and i've heard fo's are on peanuts, then being told some are taking home £4000/month, which to me is alot of peanuts.
thanks, bbear
ps. and also i just read someone saying that their pilots are working 90 hours a month, then getting to 900 hours in 10months. does that then mean no work for 2 months? that seems like awful forward planning! i know ryanair get a bit of stick, but surely any airline could organise their pilots better than that?!
i'm due to start type rating in july and i've heard fo's are on peanuts, then being told some are taking home £4000/month, which to me is alot of peanuts.
thanks, bbear
ps. and also i just read someone saying that their pilots are working 90 hours a month, then getting to 900 hours in 10months. does that then mean no work for 2 months? that seems like awful forward planning! i know ryanair get a bit of stick, but surely any airline could organise their pilots better than that?!
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 141
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I like the question, as if you really get a choice.
You usually end up taking the first half decent thing that comes along, cause if you say "no you don't pay enough", when will the next offer come along. Do like most people do, apply to the companies you most want to work for first, then if you don't get any bites work your way down the list. Guaranteed number 1 will only come back to you after you took the job offered by the last one on your list.
You usually end up taking the first half decent thing that comes along, cause if you say "no you don't pay enough", when will the next offer come along. Do like most people do, apply to the companies you most want to work for first, then if you don't get any bites work your way down the list. Guaranteed number 1 will only come back to you after you took the job offered by the last one on your list.
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: 'An Airfield Somewhere in England'
Posts: 1,094
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
HundredPercentPlease - I work for the same easyJet you do! I tried to be very specific in what I said and clearly stated that sector pay was grossed up in order to compare like with like. This is because different companies have different tax arrangements on allowances such as sector pay and so on. Therefore you must gross up in order to make valid comparisons between companies.
At this moment an F/O earns £12.86 per sector with a £7.50 tax free element. Assuming high rate of tax, he therefore receives ((£12.86 - 7.50) +£7.50/0.6)) = £5.36 + £12.50 = £17.86 gross. Apologies for the £18.06 - I used the new tax free element of £7.80 in my calculations. I am sure you will accept a 20p discrepancy! From October 2006 the GROSS sector pay would be (£14.18 - £7.80 + £7.80/0.6) = £19.38 per sector. An FO in the high tax bracket flying 500 sectors would therefore be paid £10172.12 gross if you assume an additional 32 sectors pay from SEP, 2 days in the sim and 12 ASBYs per year. Also, you can join as a DEP if you are type-rate or have significant medium/heavy jet experience. Hope that makes sense.
At this moment an F/O earns £12.86 per sector with a £7.50 tax free element. Assuming high rate of tax, he therefore receives ((£12.86 - 7.50) +£7.50/0.6)) = £5.36 + £12.50 = £17.86 gross. Apologies for the £18.06 - I used the new tax free element of £7.80 in my calculations. I am sure you will accept a 20p discrepancy! From October 2006 the GROSS sector pay would be (£14.18 - £7.80 + £7.80/0.6) = £19.38 per sector. An FO in the high tax bracket flying 500 sectors would therefore be paid £10172.12 gross if you assume an additional 32 sectors pay from SEP, 2 days in the sim and 12 ASBYs per year. Also, you can join as a DEP if you are type-rate or have significant medium/heavy jet experience. Hope that makes sense.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 112
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ps. and also i just read someone saying that their pilots are working 90 hours a month, then getting to 900 hours in 10months. does that then mean no work for 2 months? that seems like awful forward planning! i know ryanair get a bit of stick, but surely any airline could organise their pilots better than that?!
Costs them many £millions in Feb and March hiring in charter firms to do the flying - money which if given to the pilots in Ts & Cs would solve their problems in house!
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Europe
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
@NSF
Is that possible, that you quote what you earn (with the new deal) NET (married or single???) as a CP after ??? years without pension please?
And how much the max. net salary is as a "normal" CP without e.g. line trainer salary ?
Thanks
Is that possible, that you quote what you earn (with the new deal) NET (married or single???) as a CP after ??? years without pension please?
And how much the max. net salary is as a "normal" CP without e.g. line trainer salary ?
Thanks
NSF, thanks for pointing your methodology out. A bit flawed for me though, as an SFO (TRSS) my P60 shows a gross pay of £39,800 so even for an SFO only £2500 of my earnings are at 40% tax. I know my earnings are low (I've done an Airbus course, and I'm not in a London base so my 870 hours a year are made up of lots of long 2 sector days - 1300 nm but only 995 nm straight line distance) and that a London SFO will earn more.
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 2,584
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As everyone can see the question of pay is often a highly complex one that is thoroughly obscured by smoke and mirrors.
Bongle, yes airlines' planning is frequently as inept as that. I shudder for your future though if you're starting type rating soon and don't know what you're going to be paid! Didn't you read your contract before you signed it? In your post you mentioned Ryanair - hope to God it's not their contract you didn't read.
Bongle, yes airlines' planning is frequently as inept as that. I shudder for your future though if you're starting type rating soon and don't know what you're going to be paid! Didn't you read your contract before you signed it? In your post you mentioned Ryanair - hope to God it's not their contract you didn't read.
