View Poll Results: Are you for or against the idea of SSTR's?
I have a fATPL but no airline jet experience and I am against SSTR's
111
20.07%
I have a fATPL but no airline jet experience and I am for SSTR's
34
6.15%
I am an experienced professional pilot with no jet airline experience and I am against SSTR's
73
13.20%
I am an experienced professional pilot with no airline jet experienced and I am for SSTR's
11
1.99%
I am a pilot with airline jet experience and I am against SSTR's
207
37.43%
I am a pilot with airline jet experience and I am for SSTR's
44
7.96%
I do not hold a professional pilot licence and I am against SSTR's
53
9.58%
I do not hold a professional pilot licence and I am for SSTR's
7
1.27%
I have no idea what an SSTR is and am just voting because I can
13
2.35%
Voters: 553. This poll is closed
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fokker - ' If you don't have the money for one, I'm sorry personally but it's a tough old world out there.' Exactly! Another compelling reason to try and get the spread of SSTRs stopped!!!!!!!! Otherwise, one's ability to further oneself in this business is LARGELY DETERMINED by the SIZE of one's WALLET!
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fokker,
Have you paid for any type rating or just your training upto fatpl?
You were lucky that you may have received a 'golden handshake' from your time in the service of your country to pay for any training you have undertaken. Most people are not that lucky.
Just incase you ask, i paid for my intial training to fatpl, but have always managed to secure employment with a bond. That doesnt mean to say i have always been in work because of my principle of not wishing to pay for 'professional training'
Have you paid for any type rating or just your training upto fatpl?
You were lucky that you may have received a 'golden handshake' from your time in the service of your country to pay for any training you have undertaken. Most people are not that lucky.
Just incase you ask, i paid for my intial training to fatpl, but have always managed to secure employment with a bond. That doesnt mean to say i have always been in work because of my principle of not wishing to pay for 'professional training'
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I can't believe I'm doing this but ...............
Wing&prayer,
I paid for ALL my training up to FATPL level - a long time ago - and have been in the happy position of amortising other ratings by bond. Oh, and redundancy, BTW.
I did not receive any 'golden handshake' from my military service; what I did receive was a one-off gratuity, a payment in lieu of a pension which I do not and will never have from HM Government. The idea of a gratuity was that it be invested to eventually buy an annuity. Sadly, the DSS has/had other ideas and insisted that it be spent on day to day expenses which, as you may know, do not conveniently come to an end at the same time as employment! Furthermore, a significant proportion of the rest was spent on IR, hours-building, exams...you know the drill.
My point in general is simply this: No-one owes you a career as an airline pilot. It is simply a business for the proprietors and could just as well be a car factory or a cake shop, it doesn't matter. If they can continue their trade and get their employees to buy their own training then bully for them. Keeps the accountants happy, dunnit?
If you wanted to be a barrister, you would have to fund your first degree and then find upwards of £35K for the Bar Conversion Course. If you want to be an actor, you will have to do a succession of crappy jobs in rep., living in squalor on almost no money, before - just maybe - getting a break. The list goes on; you get the point.
If, before you start, you can foresee a point at which you will have to stop 'investing', don't start. Your choice.
Sadly, we no longer live in a world where you can pass an interview and pitch up at Hamble for goodness knows how long on a salary and drift into a lifetime career with BOAC and retirement at 55 on a huge pension.
It's nobody's 'fault' and , certainly, nobody's 'right' to be a pilot. It's just the way the world is. Aspirants have to just check the facts, compare them with how badly they want to do it and get over it.
It's called 'life'.
Wing&prayer,
I paid for ALL my training up to FATPL level - a long time ago - and have been in the happy position of amortising other ratings by bond. Oh, and redundancy, BTW.
I did not receive any 'golden handshake' from my military service; what I did receive was a one-off gratuity, a payment in lieu of a pension which I do not and will never have from HM Government. The idea of a gratuity was that it be invested to eventually buy an annuity. Sadly, the DSS has/had other ideas and insisted that it be spent on day to day expenses which, as you may know, do not conveniently come to an end at the same time as employment! Furthermore, a significant proportion of the rest was spent on IR, hours-building, exams...you know the drill.
My point in general is simply this: No-one owes you a career as an airline pilot. It is simply a business for the proprietors and could just as well be a car factory or a cake shop, it doesn't matter. If they can continue their trade and get their employees to buy their own training then bully for them. Keeps the accountants happy, dunnit?
If you wanted to be a barrister, you would have to fund your first degree and then find upwards of £35K for the Bar Conversion Course. If you want to be an actor, you will have to do a succession of crappy jobs in rep., living in squalor on almost no money, before - just maybe - getting a break. The list goes on; you get the point.
If, before you start, you can foresee a point at which you will have to stop 'investing', don't start. Your choice.
Sadly, we no longer live in a world where you can pass an interview and pitch up at Hamble for goodness knows how long on a salary and drift into a lifetime career with BOAC and retirement at 55 on a huge pension.
It's nobody's 'fault' and , certainly, nobody's 'right' to be a pilot. It's just the way the world is. Aspirants have to just check the facts, compare them with how badly they want to do it and get over it.
It's called 'life'.
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Originally Posted by RoyHudd
Can't see what all the fuss is about. You put it well, and I think most would agree.
Can you not read? The poll at the time of my post shows 81% of people here are AGAINST SSTR's!
I have clearly stated that if people have other ideas to help maintain Ts and Cs for the future, I would be happy to hear about them so I can present them to BALPA. Instead of you guys trying to justify SSTRs, why dont you use your time to come up with ways to get rid of them, so that no one has to pay for a Type Rating and so that our Ts and Cs wont continue to take a dive!
How many times does it have to be said? This is not a thread to debate weather SSTRS are good or not. Its a thread on how to take an idea to BALPA which helps all pilots maintain their Ts and Cs.
I think most would agree! (And I have the poll to back that up!)
OSOP
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Originally Posted by Flopsie
Once again, I make the point -
8629 views - 399 votes = NO INTEREST
Ever heard of pi**ing in to the wind???
8629 views - 399 votes = NO INTEREST
Ever heard of pi**ing in to the wind???
Just to make myself perfectly clear, and using your analagy. I am very definately pissing into wind, against people like you! I am doing it so that other pilots dont have to and I do it proudly because if people like you dont want to stand up and be counted then people like me and others here, have to!
I do note that not one of your posts on this thread has any worthwhile contribution to make. They all say that it cant be done and say or imply that 'I am bashing my head against a brick wall' before telling everyone that you are bored of all of this and so is everyone else.
If that is the case, vote with your feet and stop reading this thread, you dont have to read this and but you keep coming back to tell everyone how boring this is.......... that is unless you have an alterior motive.
Are you by chance an SSTR provider, trying to promote apathy amongst pilots? It is the only reasonable explanation for your posts! You have been a Pruner for a long time so why dont you tell everyone here what your real motive is! Ive told you what mine is but it seems strange that you come out of retirement to tell everyone how boring this thread is!
OSOP
Last edited by On speed on profile; 6th Apr 2006 at 13:42.
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Originally Posted by On speed on profile
Flopsie, you have yet to come up with a valid idea as to how we can help BALPA to maintain or dare I say it, increase our Ts and Cs. Why dont you lend a hand rather than criticise and tell us all something useful.
Just to make myself perfectly clear, and using your analagy. I am very definately pissing into wind, against people like you! I am doing it so that other pilots dont have to and I do it proudly because if people like you dont want to stand up and be counted then people like me and others here, have to!
I do note that not one of your posts on this thread has any worthwhile contribution to make. They all say that it cant be done and say or imply that 'I am bashing my head against a brick wall' before telling everyone that you are bored of all of this and so is everyone else.
If that is the case, vote with your feet and stop reading this thread, you dont have to read this and but you keep coming back to tell everyone how boring this is.......... that is unless you have an alterior motive.
Are you by chance an SSTR provider, trying to promote apathy amongst pilots? It is the only reasonable explanation for your posts! You have been a Pruner for a long time so why dont you tell everyone here what your real motive is! Ive told you what mine is but it seems strange that you come out of retirement to tell everyone how boring this thread is!
OSOP
Just to make myself perfectly clear, and using your analagy. I am very definately pissing into wind, against people like you! I am doing it so that other pilots dont have to and I do it proudly because if people like you dont want to stand up and be counted then people like me and others here, have to!
I do note that not one of your posts on this thread has any worthwhile contribution to make. They all say that it cant be done and say or imply that 'I am bashing my head against a brick wall' before telling everyone that you are bored of all of this and so is everyone else.
If that is the case, vote with your feet and stop reading this thread, you dont have to read this and but you keep coming back to tell everyone how boring this is.......... that is unless you have an alterior motive.
Are you by chance an SSTR provider, trying to promote apathy amongst pilots? It is the only reasonable explanation for your posts! You have been a Pruner for a long time so why dont you tell everyone here what your real motive is! Ive told you what mine is but it seems strange that you come out of retirement to tell everyone how boring this thread is!
OSOP
Recently posted by someone who has the M & A...
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=219077
I spent the money and I because of that I got a job so I'm not miffed at all and BTW haughtney1, what makes you think I'm a 'he'???
Last edited by Flopsie; 8th Apr 2006 at 22:03.
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Flopsie..it is you who have made the mistake.....what makes you think I can think?
Seriously for a moment, whether you are happy or not is not really my concern, of greater consequence is the dearth of people who feel that by throwing a large chunk of cash at a TRating they will be more employable..the evidence suggests that this is NOT the case (unless you feel that you are only capable of working for the likes of Ryanair..and other 2nd or 3rd tier operators) and that more and more candidates are being bonded, and trained by the airlines themselves.
P.S. so your a girl then?
Seriously for a moment, whether you are happy or not is not really my concern, of greater consequence is the dearth of people who feel that by throwing a large chunk of cash at a TRating they will be more employable..the evidence suggests that this is NOT the case (unless you feel that you are only capable of working for the likes of Ryanair..and other 2nd or 3rd tier operators) and that more and more candidates are being bonded, and trained by the airlines themselves.
P.S. so your a girl then?
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H1,
Sadly, we cant expect people like flopsie to help the cause. He or She (whatever they would like to be) wont stop to look at the bigger picture. I have offered him/her two chances to come up with good ideas and his/her offering has been absolutely zero.
Flopsie, mine or anyone elses motivation to pay for a TR or not has nothing to do with this post. My motivation is to maintain Ts and Cs for myself and fellow pilots. I think the best possible way is to gain support to ban SSTRs and then approach BALPA to see what they will do. Your motivation obviously comes from your wallet. If I wanted to, I have both the motivation and the money to complete an SSTR and line training if I felt the need but I dont because it will bite me and others in the long term!
So flopsie bought a TR and got a job, we are over that, you still refuse to offer useful advice on MAINTAINING Ts and Cs (which should be foremost in your mind as a pilot) so why do you keep posting here. You havent answered any of my questions, especially my first one. I am still waiting!!
OSOP
Sadly, we cant expect people like flopsie to help the cause. He or She (whatever they would like to be) wont stop to look at the bigger picture. I have offered him/her two chances to come up with good ideas and his/her offering has been absolutely zero.
Flopsie, mine or anyone elses motivation to pay for a TR or not has nothing to do with this post. My motivation is to maintain Ts and Cs for myself and fellow pilots. I think the best possible way is to gain support to ban SSTRs and then approach BALPA to see what they will do. Your motivation obviously comes from your wallet. If I wanted to, I have both the motivation and the money to complete an SSTR and line training if I felt the need but I dont because it will bite me and others in the long term!
So flopsie bought a TR and got a job, we are over that, you still refuse to offer useful advice on MAINTAINING Ts and Cs (which should be foremost in your mind as a pilot) so why do you keep posting here. You havent answered any of my questions, especially my first one. I am still waiting!!
OSOP
There is a simple way to bust the SSTR, but you guys won't like it.
The reason a SSTR is attractive is it gets you in sooner and starts you up the seniority ladder. As seniority governs everything it makes sense to lay out some extra dosh to get in early. Somewhere on these pages someone pointed out his 25K type rating earned him an extra 2k per month over what was on offer elsewhere plus a several year jump at getting the job he wanted. Not a bad return on investment and as long as that is the case people will vote with their brains and their wallets.
Simple solution - redo the seniority ladder to reflect the applicants total experience level. This would mean the chap who has done "the right thing" by working away as a FI, TP FO etc for 5 years will get rewarded by being bumped up the ladder over the rich blighter who paid his way in. Not to mention the cadets, the lucky non type rated ones with low times and others with an inside line.
Of course there is about as much chance as this happening as my becoming pope. The reason is this solution means people in the inside with the jobs would have to give something up for the good of the cause as opposed to dumping it all on the poor wannabe's with their noses pressed on the window.
Personally I really see no reason that the SSTR has any impact at all on T&C's. T&C's are between the existing workforce and the management. Don't like them leave or withdraw your labor. This whining about SSRT's sound like a losing team blaming the refs. Funny how it is always the losing team that blames the ref.
Want better T&C’s – work for it. You are on the inside with the leverage. Get your act together and stop blaming others
The reason a SSTR is attractive is it gets you in sooner and starts you up the seniority ladder. As seniority governs everything it makes sense to lay out some extra dosh to get in early. Somewhere on these pages someone pointed out his 25K type rating earned him an extra 2k per month over what was on offer elsewhere plus a several year jump at getting the job he wanted. Not a bad return on investment and as long as that is the case people will vote with their brains and their wallets.
Simple solution - redo the seniority ladder to reflect the applicants total experience level. This would mean the chap who has done "the right thing" by working away as a FI, TP FO etc for 5 years will get rewarded by being bumped up the ladder over the rich blighter who paid his way in. Not to mention the cadets, the lucky non type rated ones with low times and others with an inside line.
Of course there is about as much chance as this happening as my becoming pope. The reason is this solution means people in the inside with the jobs would have to give something up for the good of the cause as opposed to dumping it all on the poor wannabe's with their noses pressed on the window.
Personally I really see no reason that the SSTR has any impact at all on T&C's. T&C's are between the existing workforce and the management. Don't like them leave or withdraw your labor. This whining about SSRT's sound like a losing team blaming the refs. Funny how it is always the losing team that blames the ref.
Want better T&C’s – work for it. You are on the inside with the leverage. Get your act together and stop blaming others
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Well said...
>>Want better T&C’s – work for it. You are on the inside with the leverage. Get your act together and stop blaming others.<<
Well put, 20driver.
Many years ago I was offered a command on a 707, but there was one slight problem...no type rating.
So, off I went to PanAmerican, and in two months, and a rating in hand, I found myself in the LHS of the B707-320 with a brand new carrier ...and in no less than four months, the rating was paid for (lots of overtime).
You have to make your own luck, not sit around waiting for someone else to make it for you.
Well put, 20driver.
Many years ago I was offered a command on a 707, but there was one slight problem...no type rating.
So, off I went to PanAmerican, and in two months, and a rating in hand, I found myself in the LHS of the B707-320 with a brand new carrier ...and in no less than four months, the rating was paid for (lots of overtime).
You have to make your own luck, not sit around waiting for someone else to make it for you.
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20driver, You have a good point but I do agree that it would be difficult to implement the idea you are suggesting.
As SSTRs become more prevalent, companies have more of a stronghold over their pilots. This is especially the case when you get kids out of school who will get in debt to the tune of £100,000+ to get into the right hand seat of an airline and pay line training. If this becomes the norm then things will only get worse as the companies realise tightening the screws can be done in other places because these people are desperate to start paying off their massive debts and will acept any job! This is where I can see a shortcomming in future Ts and Cs. If we dont stand up and be counted, and our fellow colleagues are always willing to sell us out to get employed (just so they can pay off their massive and ill thought out debts), their will be no 'inside' pilots. Every pilot will always only be a lone voice! There is no need for SSTRs, people who are good enough with 200 hours can still be picked on their ability, the only difference is the airlines will realise they are employing people who wont bow to their every whim.
Thankyou for the good ideas.
411A, With all due respect.... I have made my own luck and I have done it without paying for a type rating. I am of the age but with more experience than most of the people considering SSTRs and I dont have the need to buy an SSTR so I dont buy what you say. I got my experience through 'making my own luck'. In a one off special case like yours, it obviously worked but the LoCo operators in Europe are creating a problem which if not curbed, will IMHO lead to reduced Ts and Cs for the duration of my career. I cant comment on the exact situation in the US.
OSOP
Originally Posted by 20driver
Personally I really see no reason that the SSTR has any impact at all on T&C's. T&C's are between the existing workforce and the management. Don't like them leave or withdraw your labor. This whining about SSRT's sound like a losing team blaming the refs. Funny how it is always the losing team that blames the ref.
Thankyou for the good ideas.
411A, With all due respect.... I have made my own luck and I have done it without paying for a type rating. I am of the age but with more experience than most of the people considering SSTRs and I dont have the need to buy an SSTR so I dont buy what you say. I got my experience through 'making my own luck'. In a one off special case like yours, it obviously worked but the LoCo operators in Europe are creating a problem which if not curbed, will IMHO lead to reduced Ts and Cs for the duration of my career. I cant comment on the exact situation in the US.
OSOP
Last edited by On speed on profile; 10th Apr 2006 at 07:36.
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OSOP, what do you feel about someone like myself who raised some cash by getting a small grant and then paid for a Bandeirante type rating followed by freelance work as an F/O until a full time Bandit job became available?
It may not have been a SSTR as you picture it but I certainly gave myself a better chance of a job by going out and getting rated on a type that was, at the time, fairly common and then canvassed all those operators. By "making my own luck" I was in a position to get that first coveted flying job.
It got me on the bottom rung of the ladder and after that it was much easier to progress up the food chain. Did I erode anyones T's & C's? Did I jump a queue?
It may not have been a SSTR as you picture it but I certainly gave myself a better chance of a job by going out and getting rated on a type that was, at the time, fairly common and then canvassed all those operators. By "making my own luck" I was in a position to get that first coveted flying job.
It got me on the bottom rung of the ladder and after that it was much easier to progress up the food chain. Did I erode anyones T's & C's? Did I jump a queue?
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Wow, this thread is getting some big PPruners in now. How did that happen??
Danny, (I find myseld using this term again) ...... With all due respect ......Rightly or wrongly, your actions maybe did help contribute to the situation new entrants face to the airline businsess now. Maybe they didnt but I am sure you will agree that the fact that SSTRs are becomming more prevalent had to start somewhere. Maybe the guy who employed you on the Bandit knew you paid for your type rating and then gave the idea to the next guy and the next ...... and eventually, the lo cos out there. Maybe one day virgin and BA will have to go that low! Who knows?
The statement "make your own luck" originally came from 411A, I used his words in my reply so that he could better understand my position.
Make your own luck in my dictionary means hard work, canvassing, networking but most definately not buying a type rating.
I have another (hopefully) 25 - 35 years in this industry. If this industry becomes the rich kids game that some on PPrune call it then Ts and Cs will continue to take a dive. Danny, You have probably 1/3 of my career life left in this industry and I would imagine your Ts and Cs are at a level that should leave you in a comfortable position. I and others of my age dont have that comfort and need to do everything possible to maintain our future Ts and Cs at a level which if left to do their own thing, will probably be much less than yours. Maybe they wont but its a risk that I dont really want to take. I seriously dont mean any disrespect when I say that and I hope you dont take it as disrespect, it is an honest gut feeling that I have and my view from the bottom, struggling to the top is very different to yours!
I dont see why I have now had two big names here (amongst others) thinking that this thread is a personal crusade to attack the character of those that buy SSTRs. ITS NOT! The poll here suggests 80%+ of people are against SSTRS so why are we not doing more to try and get rid of them, collectively. At the very least it would mean we wouldnt have to fork our an extra £20K - £30K for training costs not to mention that airilne managers would have to pay good wages to get good pilots! At what point is it acceptable to stop paying. Flight training, TR, line training, f/o time???? I think it should stop at flight training!!!
Danny, Do you have any idea or approach to this problem. I and others seriously value your input considering your experience in the industry!
Cheers,
OSOP.
Danny, (I find myseld using this term again) ...... With all due respect ......Rightly or wrongly, your actions maybe did help contribute to the situation new entrants face to the airline businsess now. Maybe they didnt but I am sure you will agree that the fact that SSTRs are becomming more prevalent had to start somewhere. Maybe the guy who employed you on the Bandit knew you paid for your type rating and then gave the idea to the next guy and the next ...... and eventually, the lo cos out there. Maybe one day virgin and BA will have to go that low! Who knows?
The statement "make your own luck" originally came from 411A, I used his words in my reply so that he could better understand my position.
Make your own luck in my dictionary means hard work, canvassing, networking but most definately not buying a type rating.
I have another (hopefully) 25 - 35 years in this industry. If this industry becomes the rich kids game that some on PPrune call it then Ts and Cs will continue to take a dive. Danny, You have probably 1/3 of my career life left in this industry and I would imagine your Ts and Cs are at a level that should leave you in a comfortable position. I and others of my age dont have that comfort and need to do everything possible to maintain our future Ts and Cs at a level which if left to do their own thing, will probably be much less than yours. Maybe they wont but its a risk that I dont really want to take. I seriously dont mean any disrespect when I say that and I hope you dont take it as disrespect, it is an honest gut feeling that I have and my view from the bottom, struggling to the top is very different to yours!
I dont see why I have now had two big names here (amongst others) thinking that this thread is a personal crusade to attack the character of those that buy SSTRs. ITS NOT! The poll here suggests 80%+ of people are against SSTRS so why are we not doing more to try and get rid of them, collectively. At the very least it would mean we wouldnt have to fork our an extra £20K - £30K for training costs not to mention that airilne managers would have to pay good wages to get good pilots! At what point is it acceptable to stop paying. Flight training, TR, line training, f/o time???? I think it should stop at flight training!!!
Danny, Do you have any idea or approach to this problem. I and others seriously value your input considering your experience in the industry!
Cheers,
OSOP.
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The figures
For those that are interested (not you flopsie):
I have broken the figures down.
Overall:
For SSTRs - 19%
Against SSTRs - 80%
No idea - 1%
FATPL no Jet Airline Exp:
For SSTRs - 25%
Against SSTRs - 75%
Experienced Commercial Pilot with no Jet experience:
For SSTRs - 14%
Against SSTRs - 86%
Pilots with Jet experience:
For SSTRs - 19%
Against SSTRs - 81%
People not holding professional licenses:
For SSTRs - 11%
Against SSTRs - 89%
Edited to be correct. How did I get my medical??? Thanks wondering.
I have broken the figures down.
Overall:
For SSTRs - 19%
Against SSTRs - 80%
No idea - 1%
FATPL no Jet Airline Exp:
For SSTRs - 25%
Against SSTRs - 75%
Experienced Commercial Pilot with no Jet experience:
For SSTRs - 14%
Against SSTRs - 86%
Pilots with Jet experience:
For SSTRs - 19%
Against SSTRs - 81%
People not holding professional licenses:
For SSTRs - 11%
Against SSTRs - 89%
Edited to be correct. How did I get my medical??? Thanks wondering.
Last edited by On speed on profile; 11th Apr 2006 at 13:50.
Looks to me it´s the other way around. The majority is against SSTRs
It´s a shame only a minority voted including me. Not that it would change anything but eveybody should have an opinion about this topic. And it just takes seconds.
By the way, I was curious about one of the advertisers here on pprune and the associated costs. They offer an A320 type rating+500h line training w/o pay and no guarantee after. And all for only € 66000
"make your own luck" - takes on a whole new meaning under those conditions. Sounds more like 'no money, no funny' to me.
Where are we heading to? I reckon, some people have a 'situational awareness' problem. Reminds me of those 'Will fly for food' T-shirts. Oh no, these days you even have to bring your own food
It´s a shame only a minority voted including me. Not that it would change anything but eveybody should have an opinion about this topic. And it just takes seconds.
By the way, I was curious about one of the advertisers here on pprune and the associated costs. They offer an A320 type rating+500h line training w/o pay and no guarantee after. And all for only € 66000
"make your own luck" - takes on a whole new meaning under those conditions. Sounds more like 'no money, no funny' to me.
Where are we heading to? I reckon, some people have a 'situational awareness' problem. Reminds me of those 'Will fly for food' T-shirts. Oh no, these days you even have to bring your own food
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There seems to be no doubt that the majority are against SSTR's and lets face it, if you want to spend 20k to get a job then you are either filthy rich or have serious issues 
However, this thread is about maintaining Ts and Cs. What hasn't been mentioned is this. The airline industry is arguably the most competative it has ever been, mainly due to the boom in low cost travel and the soaring price of oil. I have worked in the industry for 12 years and it has changed immensely. The beancounters are constantly looking to lower their costbase in an effort to survive and who knows, maybe make a profit. Lets say that SSTR's were no more. These airline bosses are not going to take on the cost, but are more likely going to look how they can absorb them in other ways and perhaps this is a greater threat to our Ts and Cs. Even now many airlines that don't have SSTR's have reduced wages for the first two or three years or so. And on top of that you are bonded.
Most of us agree with what you say OSOP but even if SSTR's were banned I suspect that the airlines would still recover their cost one way or another, particlularly the loco's. Unfortunately there is no such queue. Whether it is making your own luck or being a "rich Kid", as Danny says most do what they can to give themselves a better chance of getting a job. Sadly this makes it a fairly uneven playing field.
However, this thread is about maintaining Ts and Cs. What hasn't been mentioned is this. The airline industry is arguably the most competative it has ever been, mainly due to the boom in low cost travel and the soaring price of oil. I have worked in the industry for 12 years and it has changed immensely. The beancounters are constantly looking to lower their costbase in an effort to survive and who knows, maybe make a profit. Lets say that SSTR's were no more. These airline bosses are not going to take on the cost, but are more likely going to look how they can absorb them in other ways and perhaps this is a greater threat to our Ts and Cs. Even now many airlines that don't have SSTR's have reduced wages for the first two or three years or so. And on top of that you are bonded.
Most of us agree with what you say OSOP but even if SSTR's were banned I suspect that the airlines would still recover their cost one way or another, particlularly the loco's. Unfortunately there is no such queue. Whether it is making your own luck or being a "rich Kid", as Danny says most do what they can to give themselves a better chance of getting a job. Sadly this makes it a fairly uneven playing field.
Last edited by Jet2; 12th Apr 2006 at 11:03.