Fast Jet to Long Haul - thoughts/advice?
Cuillan:
Like wiggy I am intrigued to know what special help ex-RAF pilots get in order to join BA.
Please don't be shy and let us all benefit from your knowledge or are you just spouting another urban myth?
Like wiggy I am intrigued to know what special help ex-RAF pilots get in order to join BA.
Please don't be shy and let us all benefit from your knowledge or are you just spouting another urban myth?
Join Date: Dec 1997
Location: Suffolk UK
Posts: 4,927
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Cuillin
As a leaver from the military you also get a head start with BA applications as you should have access to interview questions, maths tests, sim profiles etc.
I'll just hold up my hand for longhaul. The lifestyle suits me, and I still like going to far-flung destinations and (sometimes) getting a few days there. There's no doubt that your flying skills do atrophy, but on the other hand you have time to go and fly something more interesting privately if you wish. I get more - much more - time at home than my shorthaul friends, I don't work to a 5 on 2 off roster of earlies or lates, I see my kids, and I get to the pub. Life is good!
scroggs:
I am well aware of grapevines but Cuillan seems to be suggesting something more overt than just putting in a word for an old buddy.
If I were a young man trying to get into BA I should be very p+ssed off if I thought that RAF pilots got prior knowledge of the interview procedure, the maths test etc. etc.
Mind you, I did it the other way round. I went through the BOAC process in 1959 but decided that I would have more fun in the RAF. I was not wrong.
I am well aware of grapevines but Cuillan seems to be suggesting something more overt than just putting in a word for an old buddy.
If I were a young man trying to get into BA I should be very p+ssed off if I thought that RAF pilots got prior knowledge of the interview procedure, the maths test etc. etc.
Mind you, I did it the other way round. I went through the BOAC process in 1959 but decided that I would have more fun in the RAF. I was not wrong.
Coming back at this since there has been no reply from Cuillin: In the days before the internet there is no doubt that the RAF guys perhaps had the advantage of crewroom banter, or scroggs's "grapevine", to get a vague idea of what they were in for, but certainly not detailed info such as "interview questions" and" maths tests". From memory the Company sent the sim profiles out to everyone selected to go forward to that stage of assessment ( I'm talking late 80's 
)
Nowadays with the www and forums such as this I reckon its a fairly level playing field.
Seems to me, Cullin, you are suggesting something more underhand so come on, you ran this up the flagpole, how about an answer?
)Nowadays with the www and forums such as this I reckon its a fairly level playing field.
Seems to me, Cullin, you are suggesting something more underhand so come on, you ran this up the flagpole, how about an answer?
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
308win
Whatever you do in whatever airline, try to avoid saying "well I have had the finest training in the world old chap."
Guaranteed to p**s folk off faster than you can say knife. Also untrue as your training was for the job you used to do, not the one you are about to do.
Most airlines are so desperate for pilots, they'll take anybody these days.
LJ
Whatever you do in whatever airline, try to avoid saying "well I have had the finest training in the world old chap."
Guaranteed to p**s folk off faster than you can say knife. Also untrue as your training was for the job you used to do, not the one you are about to do.
Most airlines are so desperate for pilots, they'll take anybody these days.
LJ
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You might like to start by acknowledging that there are "Ladies" as well as Gentlemen flying civilian aircraft and some of them are going to be your Captains / Training Captains for the next decade! Whilst your at it be prepared for people alot younger than you to be senior to you.
You may also like to prepare yourself for the fact that shouting at people doesn't work, nor is anyone deferential to your previous rank except ex Airforce mates.
You will get people sucking their teeth at high angles of bank etc because passengers don't like it nor do the management. Be prepared for your skills to be judged in relation to safety and passenger comfort rather than other datum’s you may be accustomed to.
The fact that you have sought advice and acknowledge that there will be differences between your old and new lives indicates that you will probably be one of the good ones. Enjoy.
You may also like to prepare yourself for the fact that shouting at people doesn't work, nor is anyone deferential to your previous rank except ex Airforce mates.
You will get people sucking their teeth at high angles of bank etc because passengers don't like it nor do the management. Be prepared for your skills to be judged in relation to safety and passenger comfort rather than other datum’s you may be accustomed to.
The fact that you have sought advice and acknowledge that there will be differences between your old and new lives indicates that you will probably be one of the good ones. Enjoy.
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Europa
Posts: 612
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Try FR Aviation for a few years if you need some more turbine time. They welcome military experience. The Falcon job should be fairly familiar whilst the Flight Inspection task (www.flightprecision.co.uk) is great for developing a deeper understanding of ILS/VOR/DME approaches. FPL fly all round Europe so you'll visit at least 50 different airfields a year and get an MCC exemption due to the mandatory two crew operation.
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 96
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Simple source for the info - the guys who are leaving the RAF and were being given their 'Preparation for Civilian Life' lessons or whatever they call it. The guys I have spoken to (maybe it was more available at some squadrons/units than others) had the vast majority of the information available to them before they even submitted an application to BA.
I don't think it is a level playing field either!
Sorry for the slow reply but I don't sit down and read pprune every day.
I don't think it is a level playing field either!
Sorry for the slow reply but I don't sit down and read pprune every day.
PPRuNe Person
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: see roster
Posts: 1,268
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
nor is anyone deferential to your previous rank except ex Airforce mates
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cuillin,
I'm about to leave the RAF and I've been applying for a number of jobs. I've just done the 'Resettlement' training you mention and I was NOT given any inside information regarding actual interview questions, copies of BA's numeric reasoning papers or any such thing! In the last 6 months though half a dozen pals have made it into Virgin or BA and I have quizzed them mercilessly about what happened - but that's as far as my exalted position of being a military bloke allows me to go to get information. They didn't have a secret inside line either and are from more than one station, but we'd all done sh!tloads of research.
As for me, I've managed to use the info I gleaned to get through the assessment day for BA and I'm now waiting for a sim date. The best place for info without doubt was the thread on PPrune! Unforunately, still a stunning silence from Virgin. But how lucky would I have to be to get a choice?!!
I'm about to leave the RAF and I've been applying for a number of jobs. I've just done the 'Resettlement' training you mention and I was NOT given any inside information regarding actual interview questions, copies of BA's numeric reasoning papers or any such thing! In the last 6 months though half a dozen pals have made it into Virgin or BA and I have quizzed them mercilessly about what happened - but that's as far as my exalted position of being a military bloke allows me to go to get information. They didn't have a secret inside line either and are from more than one station, but we'd all done sh!tloads of research.
As for me, I've managed to use the info I gleaned to get through the assessment day for BA and I'm now waiting for a sim date. The best place for info without doubt was the thread on PPrune! Unforunately, still a stunning silence from Virgin. But how lucky would I have to be to get a choice?!!
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 96
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just as a summing up, as this will be my last post on this subject, but I was given several sheets of alpha-numeric BA questions by a colleague who had left the military. He was subsequently successful in his application to BA. The information he had available had given him a 'heads-up' on about 90% of the questions. He also had available info on sims and interview questions. I didn't use the information but passed it on to a non-military applicant who subsequently found the testing a breeze.
My belief is that it was all done unofficially and was passed around between colleagues at the base.
Organisational skills at it's best.
I applied to BA in 1990, didn't get in (unfortunately) and is the last time I applied.
Useful tip gleamed for the numerical reasoning - there are a couple of questions that are deliberately created to slow you down. Miss them out and carry on with the rest and with the time available you will get sufficient marks to pass the test. Even if you have missed a few out.
My belief is that it was all done unofficially and was passed around between colleagues at the base.
Organisational skills at it's best.
I applied to BA in 1990, didn't get in (unfortunately) and is the last time I applied.
Useful tip gleamed for the numerical reasoning - there are a couple of questions that are deliberately created to slow you down. Miss them out and carry on with the rest and with the time available you will get sufficient marks to pass the test. Even if you have missed a few out.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Sunny East Sussex
Age: 49
Posts: 264
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So after all that, we are saying that the guys in the RAF spoke to their mates about what to expect at the interview. Not exactly a huge revelation.
What you will find, is that on a squadron where you all know each other, and meet up regularly, people will go out of their way to help mates with interview questions and tests. This is really a reflection on the camaraderie felt amongst military pilots.
With the large number of RAF pilots leaving at present, no wonder a large pool of knowledge is being collected.
People leaving any airline could do this to their previous colleagues(and may do for all I know).
What you will find, is that on a squadron where you all know each other, and meet up regularly, people will go out of their way to help mates with interview questions and tests. This is really a reflection on the camaraderie felt amongst military pilots.
With the large number of RAF pilots leaving at present, no wonder a large pool of knowledge is being collected.
People leaving any airline could do this to their previous colleagues(and may do for all I know).
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 158
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I did FJ to Long Haul. I worked on the principle that 14hrs on autopilot with a take-off and landing at each end and some days off beat multi-sector days. Other guys I know take the opposite view. Had I stayed in the mil I would have ended up pushing paper clips around or as the knackered old git in the corner of the crew room who got a cold whenever 'G' was mentioned. When I first started flying the big jets it was all new and interesting, now it can be brain death. I have only encountered one guy with an anti-mil attitude but he is just an arse all the rest, from wherever they come, have been true gents. There are some brilliant pure civvy pilots and some who think they are; just like in the mil.
I enjoy laying over in my favourite cities and whilst I work harder in the airline now than 5 years ago, I still get a better quality of life than I did on a squadron. The fact is that you may not get much satisfaction from operating the aircraft so you might as well go for whichever fits in with your lifestyle needs. Own bed, days off etc.
Folks often quote the 2 buckets theory for leaving the mil. I made my decision to go long haul based on the fact that I used to live to work, now I work to live. The attraction has gone in a pure flying sense, I am now a systems manager but I see more of my family and have more QT which is all I wanted.
I enjoy laying over in my favourite cities and whilst I work harder in the airline now than 5 years ago, I still get a better quality of life than I did on a squadron. The fact is that you may not get much satisfaction from operating the aircraft so you might as well go for whichever fits in with your lifestyle needs. Own bed, days off etc.
Folks often quote the 2 buckets theory for leaving the mil. I made my decision to go long haul based on the fact that I used to live to work, now I work to live. The attraction has gone in a pure flying sense, I am now a systems manager but I see more of my family and have more QT which is all I wanted.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To all who took the time to post replies, thanks for your input. Amusing, informative and food for thought definitely. No doubt things may change in the next couple of years, but forewarned is forearmed and all that crap. Currently watching my life flash before my eyes several times a day as the studes try to kill me is enough to keep me amused, but am sure it will wear off. 
Thanks again to all it is much appreciated.
Thanks again to all it is much appreciated.
As for the Long Haul / Short haul question, don't froget there's the type of flying involved to consider as well. Charter vs scheduled or freight or corporate. You need to sit down to discuss what it would mean to you and your other half (if there is one).
In 5 years since leaving, I've tried long and short haul, pax and freight, glass cockpits and classic jets. Sounds like quite an acheivement in such a short time - it was! I was made redundant from my first job before I had actually left the RAF!
Forget the aircraft type, generally they are all pretty similar. But if you like flying, you will get pretty bored with one or two landings a month.
Personally, found the fatigue too much to cope with on long haul, so the switch to short haul made my life much better, And I've started to enjoy flying again. Talk to guys who have left in similar circumstances to you. That should give you a feel for whether you may like a job.
In 5 years since leaving, I've tried long and short haul, pax and freight, glass cockpits and classic jets. Sounds like quite an acheivement in such a short time - it was! I was made redundant from my first job before I had actually left the RAF!
Forget the aircraft type, generally they are all pretty similar. But if you like flying, you will get pretty bored with one or two landings a month.
Personally, found the fatigue too much to cope with on long haul, so the switch to short haul made my life much better, And I've started to enjoy flying again. Talk to guys who have left in similar circumstances to you. That should give you a feel for whether you may like a job.
