Liverpool or Manchester?
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Writing as a Frenchman living in the northwest, maybe I can give you a less biased view than some of the points above. Five years ago, no contest, I would have said Manchester as Liverpool looked to be going nowhere fast. Things have changed massively there though and I’ve been impressed with the recent changes in Liverpool, particularly the attitude. Having said that, the city centre does resemble a building site at the moment, it’ll probably be another 3-4 years before the regeneration reaches some sort of conclusion, in this respect Manchester is ahead of Liverpool. When I arrived in the UK 10 years ago, Manchester city centre looked like something out of Eastern Europe circa 1978. Not anymore, it looks cool these days. On the crime front, don’t believe all the anti-Liverpool stuff, my own crime related happenings in the UK have all been in Manchester, once having my car stolen and about five years ago, somebody decided to throw a brick into a crowd leaving a club and managed to fracture my cheekbone. Nice. I actually find Liverpool a friendlier place to be for a night out and a lot less aggressive than Manchester. The majority of people I speak to up here seem to feel the same way. If you really want my advice though, follow me and live in Chester, fantastic, historic city and you can be in either Liverpool or Manchester in under an hour!
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Both cities and their surroundings have plenty of good places to live so that shouldn't be an issue. You can even live somewhere equidistant (eg Northwich) to give your career maximum flexibility in the future.
As a pilot, do you want to do ILS after ILS because it's too busy for anything else (Manchester), or have fun and do loads of visual approaches (Liverpool)?
Do you want to have to take a bus from the staff carpark (Manchester), or just walk to the terminal (Liverpool)?
(Assuming of course that your car is still there when you get back)
Liverpool is getting busier but it still doesn't suffer big airport syndrome.
As a pilot, do you want to do ILS after ILS because it's too busy for anything else (Manchester), or have fun and do loads of visual approaches (Liverpool)?
Do you want to have to take a bus from the staff carpark (Manchester), or just walk to the terminal (Liverpool)?
(Assuming of course that your car is still there when you get back)
Liverpool is getting busier but it still doesn't suffer big airport syndrome.
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Some good points here for working at both, manchester is a big international airport, wheras Liverpool is still regional and more friendly. I worked at Liverpool in the 1960s when everybody knew each other and it was like a big family, i think its still the same, not too big for all to have a good working relationship. I fly GA out of Liverpool and ATC are very helpful, slotting inbetween the bigger stuff. So its a choice of what type of airport you want to work at really, big or small. Liverpool is growing fast, but until the 7,500ft runway gets extended its never going to be really international. As to where you live, why not live on wirral and commute through one of the two mersey tunnels everyday like thousands of others, then negotiate the 'big dig' of road works in the city, you would then lose the will to live and go and work at manchester, living in Cheshire which is Gods' country after all.
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Bluesky, I've had the pleasure of working with the people of both cities. Of course they've probably both got their good and bad points.
Manchester has a more "cosmopolitan" feel to it, and has developed considerably over the past 10yrs. I'd suggest Liverpool is probably more culturally diverse, and, as an ancient port, more historic.
Geographically, Liverpool is closer to "the coast" and offers easy access to North Wales, Lynn Peninnsula and Snowdonia. Manchester offers easy access to the Peak District, Lake District and the North Yorkshire Moors.
As with most inner cities, they both have problems with crime and anti-social behviour. Manchester Council is probably more rigorous at dealing with this problem. Acual crime rates are pretty simillar, although perceptions towards Liverpool people are often worse, as demonstrated on this forum. The direct approach of "scousers" doesn't always suit everybodies sensibilities!
As to the acts of vandalism (eg the gravestone issue), unfortunately this happens in both cities. You will find that rates of crime, quality of schools, rubbish on the street etc is directly related to the price you pay for your property.
On a one to one level, people tend to be friendly and accommodating in both cities.
City living isn't for me, I choose to live in the "Green belt" as described earlier in this forum. I have friends who regularly visit both towns, and enjoy the diversity they offer.
Cheers.
Manchester has a more "cosmopolitan" feel to it, and has developed considerably over the past 10yrs. I'd suggest Liverpool is probably more culturally diverse, and, as an ancient port, more historic.
Geographically, Liverpool is closer to "the coast" and offers easy access to North Wales, Lynn Peninnsula and Snowdonia. Manchester offers easy access to the Peak District, Lake District and the North Yorkshire Moors.
As with most inner cities, they both have problems with crime and anti-social behviour. Manchester Council is probably more rigorous at dealing with this problem. Acual crime rates are pretty simillar, although perceptions towards Liverpool people are often worse, as demonstrated on this forum. The direct approach of "scousers" doesn't always suit everybodies sensibilities!
As to the acts of vandalism (eg the gravestone issue), unfortunately this happens in both cities. You will find that rates of crime, quality of schools, rubbish on the street etc is directly related to the price you pay for your property.
On a one to one level, people tend to be friendly and accommodating in both cities.
City living isn't for me, I choose to live in the "Green belt" as described earlier in this forum. I have friends who regularly visit both towns, and enjoy the diversity they offer.
Cheers.
aka Capt PPRuNe
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Don't forget that PPRuNe was conceived and is still run from Liverpool. The main difference is that whereas you could slag off Liverpool as BHTSM/NN has done, all you will get is humour in response. Do that anywhere else, Manchester or the Home Counties where BHTSM is probably from and you will get indignation and bruised egos.
As a Scouser, and proud of it, I would of course recommend Liverpool. Most of the points have been stated already. The ideal choice is, as mentioned, somewhere like Northwich which is just about equidistant from both Liverpool and Manchester, about 40 minutes each, as well as only 15 minutes from Chester. If you had to choose one city over the other though, I'd be bound to advise on Liverpool. Having been based at both Manchester and Liverpool airports, the hassle factor at Manchester is bad and getting worse. Even if you live close by Manchester airport, if you have to drive to the airport during rush hour it can be very frustrating and the staff car park is huge, not very well maintained and the bus service regular but a pain, especially when the weather is bad.
Depending on where your crew room is, you may have some distance to walk once you are off the staff bus and again, you will have long distances to walk from crew room to aircraft. They claim to have dedicated security channels for staff but more often than not, they are so understaffed that they put SLF through and you end up in a big queue.
It's been a while since I have flown out of Liverpool but the new airport there is impressive and you don't have far to go from anywhere when there. Hassle factor... probably a lot less than MAN.
As for the cities, Manchester is bigger and has more variety but Liverpool is changing rapidly. I hardly recognise the city centre anymore. Lots of new development and infrastructure improvements. Liverpool was chose as European City of Culture for a reason and there is a lot of choice. Stereotyping by southern woofters like BHTSM is just a sign that he really doesn't know what he's talking about. Go and get based down south for LGW or LHR and see how your quality of life ends up.
Just don't get confused about the difference between Scousers and Scallies. I'm a Scouser but not a Scallie. Unfortunately, some of the hoy polloi from down south aren't too bright when it comes to differentiating. Us Scousers regard them as 'Nice but Dim Tims'!
As a Scouser, and proud of it, I would of course recommend Liverpool. Most of the points have been stated already. The ideal choice is, as mentioned, somewhere like Northwich which is just about equidistant from both Liverpool and Manchester, about 40 minutes each, as well as only 15 minutes from Chester. If you had to choose one city over the other though, I'd be bound to advise on Liverpool. Having been based at both Manchester and Liverpool airports, the hassle factor at Manchester is bad and getting worse. Even if you live close by Manchester airport, if you have to drive to the airport during rush hour it can be very frustrating and the staff car park is huge, not very well maintained and the bus service regular but a pain, especially when the weather is bad.
Depending on where your crew room is, you may have some distance to walk once you are off the staff bus and again, you will have long distances to walk from crew room to aircraft. They claim to have dedicated security channels for staff but more often than not, they are so understaffed that they put SLF through and you end up in a big queue.
It's been a while since I have flown out of Liverpool but the new airport there is impressive and you don't have far to go from anywhere when there. Hassle factor... probably a lot less than MAN.
As for the cities, Manchester is bigger and has more variety but Liverpool is changing rapidly. I hardly recognise the city centre anymore. Lots of new development and infrastructure improvements. Liverpool was chose as European City of Culture for a reason and there is a lot of choice. Stereotyping by southern woofters like BHTSM is just a sign that he really doesn't know what he's talking about. Go and get based down south for LGW or LHR and see how your quality of life ends up.
Just don't get confused about the difference between Scousers and Scallies. I'm a Scouser but not a Scallie. Unfortunately, some of the hoy polloi from down south aren't too bright when it comes to differentiating. Us Scousers regard them as 'Nice but Dim Tims'!
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Abnormal Nigel - do get a grip of yourself! I am not the pompous one and as for humour??? Most of the comments from yesterday were FAR from humorous. Agreed it's nice to see some more balanced and informative views being expressed here today.
Speaking as a "Southern Woofter" I enjoyed 25 very happy years in the Liverpool and Wirral regions and whilst I have witnessed my fair share of assorted crime would not let THAT prevent me from a return once my wolverine ex wife loses the scent........
I also had a most enjoyable 9 month contract with Excel in Manch though chose to live in Runcorn as I personally couldn't see myself living anywhere Manch airport itself. Have fond memories of both areas and would urge the questioner to consult the existing guys at VLM in both bases for their views and experiences and with luck he may obtain a response more relevant to his impending lifestyle.
Anyhow - good luck!
Speaking as a "Southern Woofter" I enjoyed 25 very happy years in the Liverpool and Wirral regions and whilst I have witnessed my fair share of assorted crime would not let THAT prevent me from a return once my wolverine ex wife loses the scent........
I also had a most enjoyable 9 month contract with Excel in Manch though chose to live in Runcorn as I personally couldn't see myself living anywhere Manch airport itself. Have fond memories of both areas and would urge the questioner to consult the existing guys at VLM in both bases for their views and experiences and with luck he may obtain a response more relevant to his impending lifestyle.
Anyhow - good luck!
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Hi
Danny Quoted
___________________________________________________
Don't forget that PPRuNe was conceived and is still run from Liverpool. The main difference is that whereas you could slag off Liverpool as BHTSM/NN has done, all you will get is humour in response. Do that anywhere else, Manchester or the Home Counties where BHTSM is probably from and you will get indignation and bruised egos.
As a Scouser, and proud of it, I would of course recommend Liverpool. Most of the points have been stated already. The ideal choice is, as mentioned, somewhere like Northwich which is just about equidistant from both Liverpool and Manchester, about 40 minutes each, as well as only 15 minutes from Chester. If you had to choose one city over the other though, I'd be bound to advise on Liverpool. Having been based at both Manchester and Liverpool airports, the hassle factor at Manchester is bad and getting worse. Even if you live close by Manchester airport, if you have to drive to the airport during rush hour it can be very frustrating and the staff car park is huge, not very well maintained and the bus service regular but a pain, especially when the weather is bad.
Depending on where your crew room is, you may have some distance to walk once you are off the staff bus and again, you will have long distances to walk from crew room to aircraft. They claim to have dedicated security channels for staff but more often than not, they are so understaffed that they put SLF through and you end up in a big queue.
It's been a while since I have flown out of Liverpool but the new airport there is impressive and you don't have far to go from anywhere when there. Hassle factor... probably a lot less than MAN.
As for the cities, Manchester is bigger and has more variety but Liverpool is changing rapidly. I hardly recognise the city centre anymore. Lots of new development and infrastructure improvements. Liverpool was chose as European City of Culture for a reason and there is a lot of choice. Stereotyping by southern woofters like BHTSM is just a sign that he really doesn't know what he's talking about. Go and get based down south for LGW or LHR and see how your quality of life ends up.
Just don't get confused about the difference between Scousers and Scallies. I'm a Scouser but not a Scallie. Unfortunately, some of the hoy polloi from down south aren't too bright when it comes to differentiating. Us Scousers regard them as 'Nice but Dim Tims'!
____________________________________________________
Well said Danny.Living in Liverpool is nothing to be ashamed of.I'll tell you this.When I go to London,Manchester or infact anyother UK City I feel threatened but I walk round Liverpool and all is calm and I feel safe.Southeners and Mancunians have opinions about us that we are all nobodys but were not.Capital of Culture,European Champions speakes for itself.Yes I admit there are some scalies around the City but there are in all City's.No place is perfect andif you have watched the news lately more ASBO's are given out in Manchester than any other City in the UK.That speak's for itself aswell.I challenge all the people who have a no-brainer single minded false opinion of Liverpool to come to the City and see that we are friendly in the majority and not in the minority.
Anyway rant over going back to the subject I think any airport would be good to be based in.It's all up to what suits you best if you want to work from MAN.Choose MAN.Same if you want to work from LPL.My choice LPL.More relaxed,quieter and will not be on so many shifts as you would with MAN.Plus visual approaches instead of boaring ILS all the time.Go for whatever you think and good luck with the job.
Regards
Michael
Danny Quoted
___________________________________________________
Don't forget that PPRuNe was conceived and is still run from Liverpool. The main difference is that whereas you could slag off Liverpool as BHTSM/NN has done, all you will get is humour in response. Do that anywhere else, Manchester or the Home Counties where BHTSM is probably from and you will get indignation and bruised egos.
As a Scouser, and proud of it, I would of course recommend Liverpool. Most of the points have been stated already. The ideal choice is, as mentioned, somewhere like Northwich which is just about equidistant from both Liverpool and Manchester, about 40 minutes each, as well as only 15 minutes from Chester. If you had to choose one city over the other though, I'd be bound to advise on Liverpool. Having been based at both Manchester and Liverpool airports, the hassle factor at Manchester is bad and getting worse. Even if you live close by Manchester airport, if you have to drive to the airport during rush hour it can be very frustrating and the staff car park is huge, not very well maintained and the bus service regular but a pain, especially when the weather is bad.
Depending on where your crew room is, you may have some distance to walk once you are off the staff bus and again, you will have long distances to walk from crew room to aircraft. They claim to have dedicated security channels for staff but more often than not, they are so understaffed that they put SLF through and you end up in a big queue.
It's been a while since I have flown out of Liverpool but the new airport there is impressive and you don't have far to go from anywhere when there. Hassle factor... probably a lot less than MAN.
As for the cities, Manchester is bigger and has more variety but Liverpool is changing rapidly. I hardly recognise the city centre anymore. Lots of new development and infrastructure improvements. Liverpool was chose as European City of Culture for a reason and there is a lot of choice. Stereotyping by southern woofters like BHTSM is just a sign that he really doesn't know what he's talking about. Go and get based down south for LGW or LHR and see how your quality of life ends up.
Just don't get confused about the difference between Scousers and Scallies. I'm a Scouser but not a Scallie. Unfortunately, some of the hoy polloi from down south aren't too bright when it comes to differentiating. Us Scousers regard them as 'Nice but Dim Tims'!
____________________________________________________
Well said Danny.Living in Liverpool is nothing to be ashamed of.I'll tell you this.When I go to London,Manchester or infact anyother UK City I feel threatened but I walk round Liverpool and all is calm and I feel safe.Southeners and Mancunians have opinions about us that we are all nobodys but were not.Capital of Culture,European Champions speakes for itself.Yes I admit there are some scalies around the City but there are in all City's.No place is perfect andif you have watched the news lately more ASBO's are given out in Manchester than any other City in the UK.That speak's for itself aswell.I challenge all the people who have a no-brainer single minded false opinion of Liverpool to come to the City and see that we are friendly in the majority and not in the minority.
Anyway rant over going back to the subject I think any airport would be good to be based in.It's all up to what suits you best if you want to work from MAN.Choose MAN.Same if you want to work from LPL.My choice LPL.More relaxed,quieter and will not be on so many shifts as you would with MAN.Plus visual approaches instead of boaring ILS all the time.Go for whatever you think and good luck with the job.
Regards
Michael
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Thank you MichaelDoyle, Danny, got caught, rogerpenney,... And everyone in the second page I would say ;-) !
When I saw the first answers, I thought there was an open war between the two cities!! So thank you for the more balanced advice.
Both cities and airports seem to have their good and bad points.
Anyway, I don't have a choice anymore as the company will decide for us.
Whatever! It's going to be a great experience. I can't wait!
Bluesky.
When I saw the first answers, I thought there was an open war between the two cities!! So thank you for the more balanced advice.
Both cities and airports seem to have their good and bad points.
Anyway, I don't have a choice anymore as the company will decide for us.
Whatever! It's going to be a great experience. I can't wait!
Bluesky.
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Oh, Oh, Oh....
I just can't believe what I'm reading !!!!
Normal Nigel and behind the second midland I hope I NEVER have to fly with you!!!!
So much hate for Lpool !!!
How old are you?
I know a lot of people make jokes about Lpool but some of your comments are unbelievable!!!
I have lived in both MAN and LPL and I quite like LPL, like everywhere there are **** places and so on...
I agree with mon ami francais didi..
Myself I'm from Nice cote d'azur which is a very nice place to live and I don't mind leaving in Liverpool.
LPL or MAN same WX... RAIN and more rain but the people are very friendly!!!
Voila....
Happy flying!
Nico
I just can't believe what I'm reading !!!!
Normal Nigel and behind the second midland I hope I NEVER have to fly with you!!!!
So much hate for Lpool !!!
How old are you?
I know a lot of people make jokes about Lpool but some of your comments are unbelievable!!!
I have lived in both MAN and LPL and I quite like LPL, like everywhere there are **** places and so on...
I agree with mon ami francais didi..
Myself I'm from Nice cote d'azur which is a very nice place to live and I don't mind leaving in Liverpool.
LPL or MAN same WX... RAIN and more rain but the people are very friendly!!!
Voila....
Happy flying!
Nico
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When I saw the first answers, I thought there was an open war between the two cities!!
Having been brought up in one and lived in 'tother, I can say that they are both unattractive sh!tholes, but on the flip side, they both have alot to offer - much money was poured into Manchester in the 90s, just as much money is being poured into Liverpool now. Both have some very nice places to live and socialise. Both have more than their fair share of theiving chavs - On balance, Manchester is slightly worse in this respect, but their is not much in it. What would pip it for me, bearing in mind you would probably want to live somewhere outlying and commute, is that Manchester's traffic problems are far, far worse than Liverpool's - By accident or design, Liverpool is far easier to get around, there being usually several ways of getting from A to B.
But for heaven's sake, don't under any circumstances live anywhere near the airport (Speke) - that area truly is a sh!thole!
16B
The ideal choice is, as mentioned, somewhere like Northwich ......
Not disagreeing with the above, but if you were looking to buy property in the Northwich area, just a note of caution - beware subsidence, a legacy of its salt mining days.
If rural living appeals, there are any number of attractive villages in the 'Vale Royal' area of Cheshire - Whitegate, Eaton, Tarporley and Little Budworth to name but a few. Great pubs, good food, and all within easy reach of either Airport.
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Hi
No probs for the advice blousky and good look.Much regards.
Also nice to see people arnt being childish and slagging off Liverpool anymore and have agreed that it isnt that bad at all.
Speke is bad though.I mean really bad.Based on true personal experiances.
Regards
Michael
No probs for the advice blousky and good look.Much regards.
Also nice to see people arnt being childish and slagging off Liverpool anymore and have agreed that it isnt that bad at all.
Speke is bad though.I mean really bad.Based on true personal experiances.
Regards
Michael
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Stereotyping by southern woofters like BHTSM is just a sign that he really doesn't know what he's talking about. Go and get based down south for LGW or LHR and see how your quality of life ends up.
Southern Woofter???
Manc commuter, however I would prefer to suffer the South East or anywhere else for that matter rather than the nation's work shy granny robbing capital.
Don't forget that PPRuNe was conceived and is still run from Liverpool.
The main difference is that whereas you could slag off Liverpool as BHTSM/NN has done, all you will get is humour in response. Do that anywhere else, Manchester or the Home Counties where BHTSM is probably from and you will get indignation and bruised egos.
See you on the shuttle Danny!
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Blousky - as a Londoner who has worked in both Manchester and Liverpool, all I can say is NO!
They are both crime-ridden, provincial cesspits entirely filled with drug addled, underclass scum. Or in Liverpool's case, self-righteous, drug addled, underclass scum. (By the way Danny it's Tim Nice-But-Dim, but I'm sure you be deleting this as soon as you see it).
The North of England is quite frankly an embarrassment to the South-east which financially props it up. Northerners reading this may well squeal, but home truths sometimes hurt. London may well be more expensive (that's because people want to live there), but you will at least find other Belgians there and Belgian restaurants and bars. Most Northerners think a Belgian bar is made of chocolate.
The difference between the South and North of England is the difference between Liege and Lesotho.
They are both crime-ridden, provincial cesspits entirely filled with drug addled, underclass scum. Or in Liverpool's case, self-righteous, drug addled, underclass scum. (By the way Danny it's Tim Nice-But-Dim, but I'm sure you be deleting this as soon as you see it).
The North of England is quite frankly an embarrassment to the South-east which financially props it up. Northerners reading this may well squeal, but home truths sometimes hurt. London may well be more expensive (that's because people want to live there), but you will at least find other Belgians there and Belgian restaurants and bars. Most Northerners think a Belgian bar is made of chocolate.
The difference between the South and North of England is the difference between Liege and Lesotho.
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Hi Blousky,
I used to fly for VLM and flew out of LPL and MAN from time to time.
If I could chose I would take MAN if you want to see some action. I mean if you only fly to LCY out of one station and don see many big airlines around it becomes a bit monotone.(some people got desperate sitting in LUX or MGL after a while)
It keeps somebody motivated if you line up after a 747 in MAN. Not that the F50 is a boaring but I sure that after 4 years flying to LCY you would like to be part of the Jetset one day.
Ok in LPL you have those easy and ryanair planes but MAN is more interesting if you look up to the future.
If you already live near MAN, one day you won regret it if you apply to one of many airlines flying out of MAN. Makes it easy and you don have to move anymore.
Ok..easy is an option but LPL is difficult to get in (at least it was when I was flying for easy last year).
When it comes to people, they are all nice. The cabin crew is really nice if you want to see the cities. They show you around and really know what party means.....
Most of them used to fly for the big ones and thought it was time to relax a bit and have a stable roster.
Cockpit is a mix of senior and come and goings but really nice.
I learned a lot on the F50 and flying was fun. LCY is a nice challenge and keeps your flying skills at a high level. (remember, there are not many around where the F/O can fly himself into LCY)
So I hope it makes you decide easier.
Have fun and give everybody at vlm my regards.
I used to fly for VLM and flew out of LPL and MAN from time to time.
If I could chose I would take MAN if you want to see some action. I mean if you only fly to LCY out of one station and don see many big airlines around it becomes a bit monotone.(some people got desperate sitting in LUX or MGL after a while)
It keeps somebody motivated if you line up after a 747 in MAN. Not that the F50 is a boaring but I sure that after 4 years flying to LCY you would like to be part of the Jetset one day.
Ok in LPL you have those easy and ryanair planes but MAN is more interesting if you look up to the future.
If you already live near MAN, one day you won regret it if you apply to one of many airlines flying out of MAN. Makes it easy and you don have to move anymore.
Ok..easy is an option but LPL is difficult to get in (at least it was when I was flying for easy last year).
When it comes to people, they are all nice. The cabin crew is really nice if you want to see the cities. They show you around and really know what party means.....
Most of them used to fly for the big ones and thought it was time to relax a bit and have a stable roster.
Cockpit is a mix of senior and come and goings but really nice.
I learned a lot on the F50 and flying was fun. LCY is a nice challenge and keeps your flying skills at a high level. (remember, there are not many around where the F/O can fly himself into LCY)
So I hope it makes you decide easier.
Have fun and give everybody at vlm my regards.
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Yes of course - "el caballero rojo sends his regards"....... hehe! Should put a warm smile on their faeces 
Seriously though - a warm and valuable response at last! I'll sleep well in me coop tonite! Well done Mojo!
Seriously though - a warm and valuable response at last! I'll sleep well in me coop tonite! Well done Mojo!
