Pilots leaving Easy
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Weasley-
In the last year at my base 14 pilots have left which is way over the 10% attrition rate JP/PT and co are happy to see and apparently account for. If that is the case for one 8 aircraft base then there will be a problem. As usual with eJ it will be a case of horse and bolted.
Our T & C's have been steadily eroded year after year. Could even 100% balpa membership make any difference? Last year some members didn't even vote!!!!!
By the way www, your alter ego on the balpa forum seems to sing from a different song sheet................????????????????????
Capt. Paul
In the last year at my base 14 pilots have left which is way over the 10% attrition rate JP/PT and co are happy to see and apparently account for. If that is the case for one 8 aircraft base then there will be a problem. As usual with eJ it will be a case of horse and bolted.
Our T & C's have been steadily eroded year after year. Could even 100% balpa membership make any difference? Last year some members didn't even vote!!!!!
By the way www, your alter ego on the balpa forum seems to sing from a different song sheet................????????????????????
Capt. Paul
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I joined easy on TRSS, having already flown a jet with another company, but it was the only way this company wanted to hire me. But even though I had to (and still do) pay for my type, they still almost doubled my salary! Now before I get everybody saying I personally killed the industry bla bla bla and etc.
I was then trying to pay back my loan and live at the same time on 18,500 a year. easyJet offered me 35,000 plus flightpay. I didn't care what it was called, it was what I needed to do, so I did it.
So it is not all black and white gentlemen, not every TRSSer out there is actually a low hour pilot begging for a job. My old company wasn't about to go bust either, for me it was plain economics: It was the best offer on the table and I needed a change badly!
I guess what I am trying to say is that if the sceme indeed didn't exist, it would have been good because for me as well because I would now earn more.
But if you put yourself in my situation back then, you might understand why I did it. You may then also see it is not the unemployed pilots fault who are happy to accept anything handed (logically).
It is because there is a surplus of pilots on the market. If there weren't enough pilots around, the company wouldn't be able to fill all the trss slots. So then they would have to offer extras to get people to fill 'em, and that would be the end of it.
But you can't expect an individual to hold out for the better of the whole! THAT is what i call naive!
And to everyone who proclaims here that it is the TRSSers fault and that we ruin the market and so on: I would love to see you when your company goes bust and you find you have the choice between a TRSS job and no job. Ofcourse you will then not care about your family, your morgage, and repayments on your pilot loan.. No, because you care ONLY about the greater good of the pilot community and therefore you will rather leave aviation then to take thát job and possibly make the next pay negotiations slightly more difficult for your fortunate (ex)colleagues that still have their job.
Yeah right. Wake up, smell the coffee. I agree with Flaps One, if the community gets together and organizes you are strong. You can achieve things. You might even get easyJet to drop the TRSS! And then Mr. Bokkenrijder and Mr. Flaps One could be friends again as well. Wouldn't that be nice?
I was then trying to pay back my loan and live at the same time on 18,500 a year. easyJet offered me 35,000 plus flightpay. I didn't care what it was called, it was what I needed to do, so I did it.
So it is not all black and white gentlemen, not every TRSSer out there is actually a low hour pilot begging for a job. My old company wasn't about to go bust either, for me it was plain economics: It was the best offer on the table and I needed a change badly!
I guess what I am trying to say is that if the sceme indeed didn't exist, it would have been good because for me as well because I would now earn more.
But if you put yourself in my situation back then, you might understand why I did it. You may then also see it is not the unemployed pilots fault who are happy to accept anything handed (logically).
It is because there is a surplus of pilots on the market. If there weren't enough pilots around, the company wouldn't be able to fill all the trss slots. So then they would have to offer extras to get people to fill 'em, and that would be the end of it.
But you can't expect an individual to hold out for the better of the whole! THAT is what i call naive!
And to everyone who proclaims here that it is the TRSSers fault and that we ruin the market and so on: I would love to see you when your company goes bust and you find you have the choice between a TRSS job and no job. Ofcourse you will then not care about your family, your morgage, and repayments on your pilot loan.. No, because you care ONLY about the greater good of the pilot community and therefore you will rather leave aviation then to take thát job and possibly make the next pay negotiations slightly more difficult for your fortunate (ex)colleagues that still have their job.
Yeah right. Wake up, smell the coffee. I agree with Flaps One, if the community gets together and organizes you are strong. You can achieve things. You might even get easyJet to drop the TRSS! And then Mr. Bokkenrijder and Mr. Flaps One could be friends again as well. Wouldn't that be nice?
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Easyjet will face recruitment problems in the coming year. Not only from pilots leaving in largish numbers but from the recruitment departments inability to cope with reality. The company should have promoted a large number of FO's months ago but didn't. Now they have little choice. This will leave a large number of new captains and a large number of new (trss?) FO's who can't fly together initially. Couple that to a crewing department who in fairness are overstretched and chaos will reign.
Virtually every FO I have talked to recently has something in the pipeline..mainly BA / Virgin...even those coming up for command. Plenty of captains are talking of it too. Some are even considering other careers.
Easyjet is certainly not the worst place to be in aviation but things are starting to creak at the seams now. You know things are getting rough when people start talking of applying to Ryanair. I'll give that one a miss unless they anounce 5/4/5/4!
Virtually every FO I have talked to recently has something in the pipeline..mainly BA / Virgin...even those coming up for command. Plenty of captains are talking of it too. Some are even considering other careers.
Easyjet is certainly not the worst place to be in aviation but things are starting to creak at the seams now. You know things are getting rough when people start talking of applying to Ryanair. I'll give that one a miss unless they anounce 5/4/5/4!
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WWW
Got to agree with autobrake3. Wages not good. Conditions lamentable. People leaving left right and centre. Please, don't embarrasse yourself. Management ~ HELLO
Got to agree with autobrake3. Wages not good. Conditions lamentable. People leaving left right and centre. Please, don't embarrasse yourself. Management ~ HELLO
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It's so easy to lose track of fact and fiction on this forum.
For the last 5 years I have frequently heard of 'hoards of pilots leaving easy' but the company is still going and now with 10 times as many aircraft as when I joined. Just do a search on the topic. The company should have folded years ago.
- Everyone is now leaving, but I've only met 3 of them (and it's a damn shame those guys are leaving).
- This is the 5th year of impending recruitment disaster.
- The pay packages are slightly better than industry standard (both Balpa and IPA agree on that).
To those leaving - All the very best and great success.
To those staying (for whatever reason) - Together, as a united group, we can make this a better place to work (not overnight!).
Divided we haven't got a cat's chance in hell!
nimbuscumulus
Agree completely!
For the last 5 years I have frequently heard of 'hoards of pilots leaving easy' but the company is still going and now with 10 times as many aircraft as when I joined. Just do a search on the topic. The company should have folded years ago.
- Everyone is now leaving, but I've only met 3 of them (and it's a damn shame those guys are leaving).
- This is the 5th year of impending recruitment disaster.
- The pay packages are slightly better than industry standard (both Balpa and IPA agree on that).
To those leaving - All the very best and great success.
To those staying (for whatever reason) - Together, as a united group, we can make this a better place to work (not overnight!).
Divided we haven't got a cat's chance in hell!
nimbuscumulus
Agree completely!
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- This is the 5th year of impending recruitment disaster.
- The pay packages are slightly better than industry standard (both Balpa and IPA agree on that).
Join Date: Aug 2000
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You can't accuse TRSS pilots of spoiling the system. The choice is pay up or don't get the jet job. I am ex-mil helicopter instructor with 5000 hours and am just about to apply to Easy. The roster seems like hard work but I will cope. The package is way better than I get in the helicopter industry. I want to work in liverpool etc etc. If I manage to get in, (not that simple) I will be better off overall, but I know I will work my backside off to get it.
It sometimes seems simple to criticise us wannabees when you already have a job. We can have 'principles' and boycott companies to end the type rating self funding but that does not pay my mortgage. The TRSS system (right or wrong) is good business economics for the company and I dont see a shortage of people willing to pay the money..........
It sometimes seems simple to criticise us wannabees when you already have a job. We can have 'principles' and boycott companies to end the type rating self funding but that does not pay my mortgage. The TRSS system (right or wrong) is good business economics for the company and I dont see a shortage of people willing to pay the money..........
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It's all well and good having a regional base and a 'decent' salary to go with it but if the conditions within the company are poor and management do not hold their crews in high regard then what do you expect -- of course people will leave regardless of rank.
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I think the recruitment 'problem' has stayed about the same for the last 3 years or so. The database seems full and there is apparently no shortage of applicants (TRSS). Whilst that remains the case I don think EZ will change anything on the recruitment front.
It is a fact that there too many people (but I have no idea how many) leaving a company that is successful and in profit. God help us if we were not making money!
Southwest has queues of joiners at the door and no-one wanting to leave. Now that's the way it should be done.
The pension is crap, the pay is good, but nowhere near good enough for what we are doing to earn it. That needs to be addressed.
It is a fact that there too many people (but I have no idea how many) leaving a company that is successful and in profit. God help us if we were not making money!
Southwest has queues of joiners at the door and no-one wanting to leave. Now that's the way it should be done.
The pension is crap, the pay is good, but nowhere near good enough for what we are doing to earn it. That needs to be addressed.
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Nice on Automatic
What I cant understand is that RYR Pilots work to 6/3 and never seem to moan but EZY crews?. 5/4/5/2 = 130+ days of a year.
Me 104 maximum, 24/7 on call blah blah blah
What I cant understand is that RYR Pilots work to 6/3 and never seem to moan but EZY crews?. 5/4/5/2 = 130+ days of a year.
Me 104 maximum, 24/7 on call blah blah blah
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Mr Angry
The differance is in perception!
If you take a job at FR you are under no illusions, you know that you will work your arse off but you will be paid accordingly. yuo know that you will have no support if you screw up. yuo know that you will get absolutley nothing for free ans therefore expect nothing!
At easy however you are told that "our people are important " and various other modern "yankie management speak" bollocks however when it comes to delivering the nice cuddles etc. you get S.F.A. What we have is the same sh!t as FR but with a much lower take home pay!
If management took on the full FR set up then we would all know exactly where we stand and I think that is the differance between the two outfits. That said I would need to be unemployed before considering a move to FR.
Flaps one you appear to have become a little orange did you apply for the vacant base captains job then? Good luck to you if you did.
The differance is in perception!
If you take a job at FR you are under no illusions, you know that you will work your arse off but you will be paid accordingly. yuo know that you will have no support if you screw up. yuo know that you will get absolutley nothing for free ans therefore expect nothing!
At easy however you are told that "our people are important " and various other modern "yankie management speak" bollocks however when it comes to delivering the nice cuddles etc. you get S.F.A. What we have is the same sh!t as FR but with a much lower take home pay!
If management took on the full FR set up then we would all know exactly where we stand and I think that is the differance between the two outfits. That said I would need to be unemployed before considering a move to FR.
Flaps one you appear to have become a little orange did you apply for the vacant base captains job then? Good luck to you if you did.
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Fair enough except EZY Pilots should have been aware when they signed up they were expected to work hard. You also have one of the most restrictive working practices to support you (CAP371) as well as the working time direc tive yearly duty limits. In summary EZY can only work you so hard until a rule flags up.
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Flaps One,
You state:
- The pay packages are slightly better than industry standard (both Balpa and IPA agree on that).
Please compare like for like. Our Salaries need to exceed those offered by other Jet airlines, for the following reasons.
1. No private medical insurance cover.
2. A poor pension contribution from the company
3. No interline staff travel arrangement.
4. No critical ilness/PHI cover
5. The company now aim to Achieve, what was one regarded as a legal yearly limit of 900 hrs. Other airlines pay a premium for anthing over 750 hrs.
6. Regular lengthy 4 sector days with 20 min turnarounds.
7. Loss of bonus for F/O's
8. 5 very early starts, between 0455 and 0600. Which most Pilots I know voted against.
9. No day off payments, even though the company now require Pilots to work anything up 0130hrs into a day off, without even another day off in lieu.
10. Loss of one weeks leave, following the fantastic pay deal 2004 which Mr Ree mentioned.This was below RPI. 4% over 18 months equates to 2.66% over 12months.
By the way, apart from the large number of F/O's and Captains leaving, there are at least 3 training Captains that I know have definitely resigned over the last month
Need I say any more
You state:
- The pay packages are slightly better than industry standard (both Balpa and IPA agree on that).
Please compare like for like. Our Salaries need to exceed those offered by other Jet airlines, for the following reasons.
1. No private medical insurance cover.
2. A poor pension contribution from the company
3. No interline staff travel arrangement.
4. No critical ilness/PHI cover
5. The company now aim to Achieve, what was one regarded as a legal yearly limit of 900 hrs. Other airlines pay a premium for anthing over 750 hrs.
6. Regular lengthy 4 sector days with 20 min turnarounds.
7. Loss of bonus for F/O's
8. 5 very early starts, between 0455 and 0600. Which most Pilots I know voted against.
9. No day off payments, even though the company now require Pilots to work anything up 0130hrs into a day off, without even another day off in lieu.
10. Loss of one weeks leave, following the fantastic pay deal 2004 which Mr Ree mentioned.This was below RPI. 4% over 18 months equates to 2.66% over 12months.
By the way, apart from the large number of F/O's and Captains leaving, there are at least 3 training Captains that I know have definitely resigned over the last month
Need I say any more
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The Times ran an interesting piece today on work and stress, and funnily enough it bore an uncanny likeness to life as a line pilot at notsoEzy.
Of the 5 items guaranteed to drive you to an early grave, only 3 boxes need be ticked. As usual easyJet strives to meet the highest standards and thus all 5 boxes can be ticked.
1. Heavy workload. How about 100 hrs a month for starters in incredibly busy airspace?
2. Unreasonable boss. A bit iffy, but those at Gatwick recently recieved an outstanding letter from the Big Chief that neatly ticks this box.
3. Disorganisation. Reserve period? Enough said.
4. Unrealistic targets. 20 minute turnarounds that always take 40 mins.
5. Tight deadlines. Schedules that rely on 20 minute turnarounds.
The good news is that the article goes on to say that the bosses don't actually have to change anything, as all these stress inducing factors can be managed by the individuals at work.
Of the 5 items guaranteed to drive you to an early grave, only 3 boxes need be ticked. As usual easyJet strives to meet the highest standards and thus all 5 boxes can be ticked.
1. Heavy workload. How about 100 hrs a month for starters in incredibly busy airspace?
2. Unreasonable boss. A bit iffy, but those at Gatwick recently recieved an outstanding letter from the Big Chief that neatly ticks this box.
3. Disorganisation. Reserve period? Enough said.
4. Unrealistic targets. 20 minute turnarounds that always take 40 mins.
5. Tight deadlines. Schedules that rely on 20 minute turnarounds.
The good news is that the article goes on to say that the bosses don't actually have to change anything, as all these stress inducing factors can be managed by the individuals at work.
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An endless circular discussion and one that has been done to death over the last 18 months.
Just for the hell of it, my last comment on this topic:
1. No private medical insurance cover.
Agreed
2. A poor pension contribution from the company
Agreed – I said that didn’t I?
3. No interline staff travel arrangement.
Like many others
4. No critical ilness/PHI cover
Agreed
5. The company now aim to Achieve, what was one regarded as a legal yearly limit of 900 hrs. Other airlines pay a premium for anthing over 750 hrs.
Who doesn’t nowadays? (It’s still wrong though!)
6. Regular lengthy 4 sector days with 20 min turnarounds.
EZ Hours limits less than Cap371. Only 3 LGW destinations with 20 min turnrounds (still unachievable!)
7. Loss of bonus for F/O's
Agreed
8. 5 very early starts, between 0455 and 0600. Which most Pilots I know voted against.
Only 2 more than Cap371. Majority voted in favour.
9. No day off payments, even though the company now require Pilots to work anything up 0130hrs into a day off, without even another day off in lieu.
It’s not a requirement, that’s incorrect. Only 5 consecutive FDPs. Much better than the previous (6/3) system which allowed overruns to 0330hrs from day 6 into 7 without compensation of any sort.
10. Loss of one weeks leave, following the fantastic pay deal 2004 which Mr Ree mentioned. This was below RPI. 4% over 18 months equates to 2.66% over 12months.
Contractual annual leave entitlement pre and post agreement are identical. Work already well under way to restore similar combination of delivery of leave and days off as before. You divided 4 by 1.5 and got 2.66. Flawed method I'm afraid and thus not an accurate reflection of what it really is.
Without doubt, there's bucket loads to fix and until it's fixed people will keep leaving. Whether that's in floods or trickles remains to be seen. Let's just hope management wake up and respond appropriately.
Just for the hell of it, my last comment on this topic:
1. No private medical insurance cover.
Agreed
2. A poor pension contribution from the company
Agreed – I said that didn’t I?
3. No interline staff travel arrangement.
Like many others
4. No critical ilness/PHI cover
Agreed
5. The company now aim to Achieve, what was one regarded as a legal yearly limit of 900 hrs. Other airlines pay a premium for anthing over 750 hrs.
Who doesn’t nowadays? (It’s still wrong though!)
6. Regular lengthy 4 sector days with 20 min turnarounds.
EZ Hours limits less than Cap371. Only 3 LGW destinations with 20 min turnrounds (still unachievable!)
7. Loss of bonus for F/O's
Agreed
8. 5 very early starts, between 0455 and 0600. Which most Pilots I know voted against.
Only 2 more than Cap371. Majority voted in favour.
9. No day off payments, even though the company now require Pilots to work anything up 0130hrs into a day off, without even another day off in lieu.
It’s not a requirement, that’s incorrect. Only 5 consecutive FDPs. Much better than the previous (6/3) system which allowed overruns to 0330hrs from day 6 into 7 without compensation of any sort.
10. Loss of one weeks leave, following the fantastic pay deal 2004 which Mr Ree mentioned. This was below RPI. 4% over 18 months equates to 2.66% over 12months.
Contractual annual leave entitlement pre and post agreement are identical. Work already well under way to restore similar combination of delivery of leave and days off as before. You divided 4 by 1.5 and got 2.66. Flawed method I'm afraid and thus not an accurate reflection of what it really is.
Without doubt, there's bucket loads to fix and until it's fixed people will keep leaving. Whether that's in floods or trickles remains to be seen. Let's just hope management wake up and respond appropriately.