Flybe Management Reshuffle.
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Well I guess this is the new thread regarding the Ops Director.
Why Mr moderator did you close the last one? Do you work for Flybe? Are you Mr Plank?
No requirement to throw your toys out the pram just because a certain individual has been removed from his position. I know the Ops director did that very thing.
Why Mr moderator did you close the last one? Do you work for Flybe? Are you Mr Plank?
No requirement to throw your toys out the pram just because a certain individual has been removed from his position. I know the Ops director did that very thing.
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Right! I've had enough of this!!
MW may or may not have had shortcomings as a manager but there is no excuse for airing private grievances on a public forum.
FF: before you gob off any more, I suggest you find out the personal heartache that has made it appropriate for MW to have his load reduced. When you have, you can apologise equally publicly, then hang your head in shame. Otherwise, keep your crewroom whining just there, in the crewroom. At least there, no-one has to listen to you.
Rant ends!
MW may or may not have had shortcomings as a manager but there is no excuse for airing private grievances on a public forum.
FF: before you gob off any more, I suggest you find out the personal heartache that has made it appropriate for MW to have his load reduced. When you have, you can apologise equally publicly, then hang your head in shame. Otherwise, keep your crewroom whining just there, in the crewroom. At least there, no-one has to listen to you.
Rant ends!
FF and others
As said before here , i have been a very strong critic of flybe and its management and some of its operational practices , i worked there nearly six years .
I always found MW to be straight with me , if i asked an honest question i received an honest answer . Mike had more integrity in his little finger than the ex Jet Fleet manager had in his body , yet i remember many times Smokie and others telling me what a great guy J.C. was .
Any flight ops director wil try and get his crews to do the max possible amount of work for the minimum amount of money , thats business ! if you guys couldnt get organised enough to stop it , hardly his fault is it .
I hope you will hang your heads in shame when the truth outs and will publish a suitable apology .
edited for grammar/spelling
As said before here , i have been a very strong critic of flybe and its management and some of its operational practices , i worked there nearly six years .
I always found MW to be straight with me , if i asked an honest question i received an honest answer . Mike had more integrity in his little finger than the ex Jet Fleet manager had in his body , yet i remember many times Smokie and others telling me what a great guy J.C. was .
Any flight ops director wil try and get his crews to do the max possible amount of work for the minimum amount of money , thats business ! if you guys couldnt get organised enough to stop it , hardly his fault is it .
I hope you will hang your heads in shame when the truth outs and will publish a suitable apology .
edited for grammar/spelling
Last edited by Nil further; 15th Oct 2005 at 09:37.
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In my opinion, the reshuffle is directly related to the Haemorrhaging of pilots from the company to other airlines. Over 100 pilots have voted with their feet but I believe that the figure may be nearer 150. This must be some kind of record for a UK airline?
The Days Off In Lieu debacle, must surely have also been a contributary factor.
The Days Off In Lieu debacle, must surely have also been a contributary factor.
Last edited by Torycanyon; 14th Oct 2005 at 10:09.
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I have to agree with Nil Further and fokker .
There is so much nonsense being touted as fact.
I know exactly what happened, as many senior flybe pilots do. He wasn't removed from anything, he hasn't been "demoted", and the recent re-shuffle had nothing to do with his performance as Ops Director.
In all my dealings with MW, he has been unfailingly honest and fair. On several occasions, he has helped me out when faced with difficult basing or crewing situations. He has always supported me when I have taken a problem to him, be it mine or somebody elses. He has also supported me when I have made unpopular command decisions (unpopular with Ops and Crewing, that is). He has never asked me to bend a rule, and had often written to thank me when I have gone the extra mile to get a sick aircraft home, or worked during leave, and so on.
I just get so sick of people being bagged for no reason. Some of you might think you have reasons to feel aggrieved, but I think you will find that in most cases, the object of your anger was simply following flybe policy, which is what he is paid to do. Nil Further is right, he is ten times the manager (and human being) than our ex-jet FM ever was.
I also knew MW in Air UK, and I know that most of the stories from there are nonsense too.
Some of you might think that this post is a piece of "kiss ass". It isn't, I no longer work for flybe. Nothing to gain for me.
As Nil Further has said, some of you will be very ashamed of your comments when you discover what actually happened.
There is so much nonsense being touted as fact.
I know exactly what happened, as many senior flybe pilots do. He wasn't removed from anything, he hasn't been "demoted", and the recent re-shuffle had nothing to do with his performance as Ops Director.
In all my dealings with MW, he has been unfailingly honest and fair. On several occasions, he has helped me out when faced with difficult basing or crewing situations. He has always supported me when I have taken a problem to him, be it mine or somebody elses. He has also supported me when I have made unpopular command decisions (unpopular with Ops and Crewing, that is). He has never asked me to bend a rule, and had often written to thank me when I have gone the extra mile to get a sick aircraft home, or worked during leave, and so on.
I just get so sick of people being bagged for no reason. Some of you might think you have reasons to feel aggrieved, but I think you will find that in most cases, the object of your anger was simply following flybe policy, which is what he is paid to do. Nil Further is right, he is ten times the manager (and human being) than our ex-jet FM ever was.
I also knew MW in Air UK, and I know that most of the stories from there are nonsense too.
Some of you might think that this post is a piece of "kiss ass". It isn't, I no longer work for flybe. Nothing to gain for me.
As Nil Further has said, some of you will be very ashamed of your comments when you discover what actually happened.
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Nil Further,
You are mistaken. I never had any faith in the previous General Manager Jets, let alone sing his praises here on PPRuNe.
Never Happened.
Our new leader at the helm has all the hallmarks of steering the company out of the muddy waters.
RD,
You have rose tinted spectacles mate. Remind me again why you left?
The Flow chart in the colour brouchure that we all recieved yesterday, clearly shows that MW is no longer in Flight Ops. He has been moved sideways to Flight Safety, sitting along side that other miscreant in that department.
You are mistaken. I never had any faith in the previous General Manager Jets, let alone sing his praises here on PPRuNe.
Never Happened.
Our new leader at the helm has all the hallmarks of steering the company out of the muddy waters.
RD,
You have rose tinted spectacles mate. Remind me again why you left?
The Flow chart in the colour brouchure that we all recieved yesterday, clearly shows that MW is no longer in Flight Ops. He has been moved sideways to Flight Safety, sitting along side that other miscreant in that department.
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Smokie
Certainly. I left to return to NZ so that my two kids could get to know their dying grandfather before he passed away. I took six months leave of absence and elected not to return. All that was facilitated by MW.
Sorry you asked now, are you?
Remind me again why you left?
Sorry you asked now, are you?
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Smokie
Thanks, although it was my father-in-law... not quite so bad...
Anyway, it is fair to say that when I left, I was pretty cheesed off... having thought I was nice and stable at EDI - I had moved four times for the company in four years - I was once again faced with a move as the companies' plans changed. It had already been a bad two years, with constant night-stopping as the LCY had stopped and we were being shunted around the network.
However, none of that was MWs fault, it was all decided by the Commercial department. He did his best to help out with sympathetic rostering and the like, making sure that were treated as well as possible by Crewing. Even when I got really frustrated and let fly with an angry email (think I must have sent a few of those!), his reaction was ALWAYS one of politeness, respect and concern. He COULD have just told me to shut up and get on with it, but he never did, he always tried to help out - not just me, but all the EDI crews. I never bothered communicating with JC, he was about as sympathetic as a piranha. Mike even came up to EDI personally to tell us what was going on, and brought JF and the boys with him. JC never once showed his face in EDI to meet or support his crews.
When it was decided that the 146 would leave EDI for good - again, a commercial decision - he went out of his way to offer me several options. I could move to SOU on the 146, stay in EDI and join the Q400 fleet (god... nooooo...!!!!
), and so on. In the end, I opted for the unpaid leave as the timing was perfect to make that move.
Being an Ops Director is like being a Captain on a flight that diverts somewhere unpleasant. As soon as you decide to do so, for the best possible reasons, you can bet your bottom dollar that a hundred or so people (less on the Q400) are going to instantly hate you and everything you stand for. Many people - ground staff, other crew, management - are going to be wishing you were never born, because their lives just turned to custard, too. Never mind that you just saved their miserable hides from a potential catastrophe, they will hate you all the same, with a blind, unreasoning, irrational hatred.
Part of holding a senior management position is accepting that the above is going to happen, and also accepting that, from time to time, you will have to implement unpopular policies. The measure of the man (or woman) is the degree of humanity that is evident in the way in which those decisions are implemented.
I have met quite a few people who will tell you that they have been lied to by MW, but it is almost never the case. I say "almost" only because I don't know the details of every case. I do know that several people who told me so, are quite incorrect - they simply don't see the whole picture, more specifically they don't get that what is promised may change for reasons quite outside the control of the Ops Director.
In my case, around 2003 I was as angry as hell at the way I had been "treated". However, as soon as I calmed down a bit, it was obvious that MW wasn't the problem, the problem is simply that our corner of the industry can be a difficult place. Commercial decisions are taken with as much consideration as possible for the crews, but in the end it is the health and success of the company that is important, for all our sakes (well, your sakes now!). Some people will always suffer as a result, but that is the nature of the airline business in the regional low-cost sector. If you don't like it, you are in the wrong industry (or the wrong part of the industry).
What I do know is that our Ops Director often argues long and loud for his crews. Few people ever see that, but it happens nevertheless - I have seen it happen myself.
So, you guys can bag him if you want, but I would bet large amounts of money that all of you doing so are folk who feel, or have felt, badly treated by him. Perhaps a little more introspection would be helpful.
In you case, Smokie, I know your record of "run-ins" and I am not surprised that you feel as you do. Just don't mistake it for a "universal truth", because my experience is definitely not the same as yours.
I can honestly say that working for flybe was a great experience. The flying was good fun, most of the people were great, and the atmosphere was relaxed and cordial. Obviously there are bad bits too (Crewing, one or two ex-managers, the disruption that comes with a complete change in the direction of the company), but overall it was fun.
You often don't realise how MUCH fun until you have left...
Thanks, although it was my father-in-law... not quite so bad...
Anyway, it is fair to say that when I left, I was pretty cheesed off... having thought I was nice and stable at EDI - I had moved four times for the company in four years - I was once again faced with a move as the companies' plans changed. It had already been a bad two years, with constant night-stopping as the LCY had stopped and we were being shunted around the network.
However, none of that was MWs fault, it was all decided by the Commercial department. He did his best to help out with sympathetic rostering and the like, making sure that were treated as well as possible by Crewing. Even when I got really frustrated and let fly with an angry email (think I must have sent a few of those!), his reaction was ALWAYS one of politeness, respect and concern. He COULD have just told me to shut up and get on with it, but he never did, he always tried to help out - not just me, but all the EDI crews. I never bothered communicating with JC, he was about as sympathetic as a piranha. Mike even came up to EDI personally to tell us what was going on, and brought JF and the boys with him. JC never once showed his face in EDI to meet or support his crews.
When it was decided that the 146 would leave EDI for good - again, a commercial decision - he went out of his way to offer me several options. I could move to SOU on the 146, stay in EDI and join the Q400 fleet (god... nooooo...!!!!
), and so on. In the end, I opted for the unpaid leave as the timing was perfect to make that move.Being an Ops Director is like being a Captain on a flight that diverts somewhere unpleasant. As soon as you decide to do so, for the best possible reasons, you can bet your bottom dollar that a hundred or so people (less on the Q400) are going to instantly hate you and everything you stand for. Many people - ground staff, other crew, management - are going to be wishing you were never born, because their lives just turned to custard, too. Never mind that you just saved their miserable hides from a potential catastrophe, they will hate you all the same, with a blind, unreasoning, irrational hatred.
Part of holding a senior management position is accepting that the above is going to happen, and also accepting that, from time to time, you will have to implement unpopular policies. The measure of the man (or woman) is the degree of humanity that is evident in the way in which those decisions are implemented.
I have met quite a few people who will tell you that they have been lied to by MW, but it is almost never the case. I say "almost" only because I don't know the details of every case. I do know that several people who told me so, are quite incorrect - they simply don't see the whole picture, more specifically they don't get that what is promised may change for reasons quite outside the control of the Ops Director.
In my case, around 2003 I was as angry as hell at the way I had been "treated". However, as soon as I calmed down a bit, it was obvious that MW wasn't the problem, the problem is simply that our corner of the industry can be a difficult place. Commercial decisions are taken with as much consideration as possible for the crews, but in the end it is the health and success of the company that is important, for all our sakes (well, your sakes now!). Some people will always suffer as a result, but that is the nature of the airline business in the regional low-cost sector. If you don't like it, you are in the wrong industry (or the wrong part of the industry).
What I do know is that our Ops Director often argues long and loud for his crews. Few people ever see that, but it happens nevertheless - I have seen it happen myself.
So, you guys can bag him if you want, but I would bet large amounts of money that all of you doing so are folk who feel, or have felt, badly treated by him. Perhaps a little more introspection would be helpful.
In you case, Smokie, I know your record of "run-ins" and I am not surprised that you feel as you do. Just don't mistake it for a "universal truth", because my experience is definitely not the same as yours.
I can honestly say that working for flybe was a great experience. The flying was good fun, most of the people were great, and the atmosphere was relaxed and cordial. Obviously there are bad bits too (Crewing, one or two ex-managers, the disruption that comes with a complete change in the direction of the company), but overall it was fun.
You often don't realise how MUCH fun until you have left...
Last edited by Raw Data; 15th Oct 2005 at 02:07.
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"Why Mr moderator did you close the last one? Do you work for Flybe? Are you Mr Plank?"
Flying Fiona
I am not aware of the thread you refer to and I can't find it on this page. There is another flybe thread and that one is certainly open. However to answer your last two questions. I do not work for this company or actually know anybody in it. The last question obviously means something to you ?
The reason that threads are closed are numerous, but they normally involve a transgression of the site rules, or they have outlived any useful purpose. In threads of this nature the most common reason for closure ( and it actually doesn't happen very often) is because individuals have resorted to the use of real names that are not already in the wider public domain. Sometimes it is possible to edit offending posts to keep a thread on track, on other occaisions it is simply too time consuming.
I hope that addresses your concern and no doubt the points will be borne in mind by others contributing to this thread.
Flying Fiona
I am not aware of the thread you refer to and I can't find it on this page. There is another flybe thread and that one is certainly open. However to answer your last two questions. I do not work for this company or actually know anybody in it. The last question obviously means something to you ?
The reason that threads are closed are numerous, but they normally involve a transgression of the site rules, or they have outlived any useful purpose. In threads of this nature the most common reason for closure ( and it actually doesn't happen very often) is because individuals have resorted to the use of real names that are not already in the wider public domain. Sometimes it is possible to edit offending posts to keep a thread on track, on other occaisions it is simply too time consuming.
I hope that addresses your concern and no doubt the points will be borne in mind by others contributing to this thread.
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Rawdata, thanks for the kind support for MW. You are right he does not deserve that sort of unreasonable and unjustyfiable treatment. Has this sudden flurry of support got anything to do with you trying to worm your way back into flybe?????
When I knew you, you had nothing but bad words to say about him.
Doesn't say much about your honesty and integrity does it?
When I knew you, you had nothing but bad words to say about him.
Doesn't say much about your honesty and integrity does it?
Last edited by jonni; 16th Oct 2005 at 15:25.
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Ha ha yeah right...
Not trying to get back into flybe, I am however looking for a little short-term contract work for a few months, and flybe recently took on some contract guys, so naturally I asked. It was discussed a few months ago and nothing came of it, so I have nothing at all to gain by being "nice" now. In any case, nobody with any decent experience has to "worm" their way into flybe. you are a little short of experienced people, or hadn't you noticed?
As for your second point, let's just say that your recollection differs to mine. Try searching some old PPRuNe posts to see who I attacked or defended over the years. Maybe you are thinking of our ex-jet FM, he deserves all the bad words I can think of.
As to your last point, I, unlike you, am not anonymous - everybody knows who I am, so what I say is directly attributable. I would say that places my honesty and integrity several notches above yours... particularly as you appear to have registered today, presumably taking a new identity in order to take a prod at me. As very few people would know that I was in touch with flybe again, it is pretty easy to figure out who you are. And you were talking about honesty and integrity...???
Not trying to get back into flybe, I am however looking for a little short-term contract work for a few months, and flybe recently took on some contract guys, so naturally I asked. It was discussed a few months ago and nothing came of it, so I have nothing at all to gain by being "nice" now. In any case, nobody with any decent experience has to "worm" their way into flybe. you are a little short of experienced people, or hadn't you noticed?
As for your second point, let's just say that your recollection differs to mine. Try searching some old PPRuNe posts to see who I attacked or defended over the years. Maybe you are thinking of our ex-jet FM, he deserves all the bad words I can think of.
As to your last point, I, unlike you, am not anonymous - everybody knows who I am, so what I say is directly attributable. I would say that places my honesty and integrity several notches above yours... particularly as you appear to have registered today, presumably taking a new identity in order to take a prod at me. As very few people would know that I was in touch with flybe again, it is pretty easy to figure out who you are. And you were talking about honesty and integrity...???
Last edited by Raw Data; 17th Oct 2005 at 07:16.
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Only one thing to say RD, flybe don't want you because of your antics, there's not much hope for you in UK aviation.
Yes, Flybe do want quality, experienced pilots and are getting quite desperate for them, unfortunately your profile does not fit into the quality frame and Flybe is not yet that desperate that it will take anyone!
You know that you slagged off MW on many an occassion's whilst with flybe, its common knowledge so why deny it?
Unfortunately the truth finally catches up with you, what goes around comes around IN THE END.
If you can't get a job flying, I would suggest that you consider a career change.
Your journalistic ability is well renowned, may I suggest a job as a gossip columnist with say a quality newspaper like the DAILY SPORT or something of that level?
Yes, Flybe do want quality, experienced pilots and are getting quite desperate for them, unfortunately your profile does not fit into the quality frame and Flybe is not yet that desperate that it will take anyone!
You know that you slagged off MW on many an occassion's whilst with flybe, its common knowledge so why deny it?
Unfortunately the truth finally catches up with you, what goes around comes around IN THE END.
If you can't get a job flying, I would suggest that you consider a career change.
Your journalistic ability is well renowned, may I suggest a job as a gossip columnist with say a quality newspaper like the DAILY SPORT or something of that level?
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Its in one of this months Aviation mags that Flybe are looking into Southend along with a host of other possible bases.
More routes have been cut today because of underperformance. Who knows the company may look at Southend more closely.
More likely is a Manchester base. Excellent sales already following the launch of additional routes and no expansion planned for Liverpool . The company blames the handling agent but there are other reasons.
As for RD getting a job back at Flybe that has been firmly blocked at board level because of his outspoken veiws. Silly really to give up your identity.
Now get this piece of news..... Sickness has gone down by 25% since the Ops director got the chop!!! (05.10.05) Now tell me again this man was a motivating manager!
More routes have been cut today because of underperformance. Who knows the company may look at Southend more closely.
More likely is a Manchester base. Excellent sales already following the launch of additional routes and no expansion planned for Liverpool . The company blames the handling agent but there are other reasons.
As for RD getting a job back at Flybe that has been firmly blocked at board level because of his outspoken veiws. Silly really to give up your identity.
Now get this piece of news..... Sickness has gone down by 25% since the Ops director got the chop!!! (05.10.05) Now tell me again this man was a motivating manager!
