Families? Social Life? Time away?

[judojamesg]

I am concidering starting the long and expensive road into becoming a pilot.

The only thing holding me back is how this career will affect my relationship with my girlfriend. (who i might want to marry at some date)

How you pilots cope with family life?
Are you away from home all of the time?
Does the time away get less with higher seniority levels?

Any help would be great!

James

[oceancrosser]

Hi judojamesg

24 years into this career already so I think I can answer some of your questions. But be aware that I am probably a cynic.

How do you pilots cope with family life? : Depends, long haul / short haul, roster pattern, but the biggest influence: your partner

Are you away all of the time?: No just most of it (my personal present experience

Does the time away get less with higher seniority levels?:
Absolutely not, probably worse. Longer trips, training work (for those involved with that). Those with reasonable bidding system might though work out better patterns.

Seems to me we are working more and more, days off are bare minimum (and then the inevitable phone calls from Crewing; can you please...)

Somebody else have this feeling?

[toro01]

Hi

I think a high percentage depends on how you girlfriend/wife copes with your lifestyle. A high percentage also on the company you work for and how far you live from your base. I personally prefer short haul. Having said that, several years in the business and still married to tell the tale. All the best.

[bafanguy]

The unfortunate part of this question is that you have choices. Drat those choices...how they come back to haunt us !!! If you elect to fly an airplane for your living, you cannot possibly expect to be home for all those life events held dear...birthdays, anniversaries, first steps/words, holidays, funerals, graduations, weddings.

It's a choice made with eyes wide open...for which you will ultimately be held accountable. As one old captain said many years ago as I voiced a similar complaint:

"You wanted wings...you got 'em...what are you complaining about ? "

[easyswimmer]

The big thing for me despite being away and missing birthdays etc is that when you leave the crew room at the end of your shift thats it. done. I don't take the job home with me, i dont have to 'work' on days off and I dont have to work late to clear my in tray before I go on holiday - a holiday which, of course should be reasonably cheap!

The training is tough but day to day life is pretty cruisy really, Tea and sudoku

[Fokkerdriver]

Hello there!!

Good questions you are asking yourself there. I wish I would have asked myself the same questions before I started my training.

I still think flying is the best job in the world. I enjoy it everytime I sit in the cockpit....but not a day goes by that I don't ask myself if it is worth the personal sacrifices.

It all depends on the job you get after flightschool offcourse...but in my case I spend on average 21 days a month away from home. The days I am home I am stressing to keep up with paying bills and all the small things that needs doing....I wash my uniform...pack my suitcase... and I'm of again.

If you are very adventurous and like living out of a suitcase then it is great...but if keeping a steady relationship is a main priority I wouldn't recommend it.

Some people seem to manage...but none of the people I trained with still have their girlfriend around.

Good luck!!

[le loup garou]

Hi Judojamesg,

I have worked for four airlines and I haven't spent a great time away from my family. I was there the first day my son walked, talked, laughed etc. I also know that I will not miss a birthday or any event for which I can give my company notice.

Whether your relationship will survive a Commecial pilots course, times of difficulty ( like looking for your first job ) Initially a poor salary ( hopefully not) and so on, is entirely up to the individuals concerned. However, the fact that you are asking about these issues suggests to me that they will not be a problem. The other fact of the job is that when you do have to spend time away there is obviously a trust issue that needs to be addressed, and that is only something that you and your girlfriend will know about, and that is not just aviation linked.

What I am trying to say is that not all flying jobs mean you spend time away from home. Once you have a little experience you can choose who you want to work for, and then you can balance your life so that you can still do a job you love and have a family life. I know I see more of my wife and son than most of my friends with so called 9 to 5 jobs.

I wish you well in your decision making but pesonally I'd go for it.

Regards Le loup

[judojamesg]

Hi there people.

Many thanks for your help. Your comments have helped me.

It sounds to me as though, the work load can depend on what company you work for. (would be interested what companies you's work for if anyone wants to PM me!)

My girl friend is supportive but we both dont know what sort of future will lie ahead for us if i decide to move into a pilot career. I think on the trust side of things it wouldnt be a problem, it just all the time being apart that i feel might be a concern.

I am in the situation where i am still living at home, i am 25, have no means of getting a house. But i am looking at obtaining a large loan (£25k) to help fund a fATPL course. Which could mean i will still be at home for a while!

Does cargo work have the same work load as passenger?
Does anyone know if there is a very signifcant pay difference between these job functions?

If anyone else has any other info on work life as a pilot, that would be great!

Regards
James

[EL CAPITAN]

James nowdays most cargo pilots earn the same as a pax flyer, the only diference is the company they work for, if they work for a major that also fly cargo is very good, because you get everything as the pax boys except the schedule is not as good as theirs. Anyway the whole issue is about family (relationship) life, well, I can tell you that it has a lot of variables, for sure you won't be able to program all special times with the family, but you can bid for it (again depends on the company), at the end of the day it is all up to you, there are jobs(non aviatin) that people have to dedicate a lot of time but we as pilots don't know about them, as these same people don't see the demands that our profession requires. You will always wonder what was it all about if you don't became a pilot.(not your girlfriend-wife). Anyway good luck and see you in the flight deck(maybe) some time.............The Capt..

[RMC]

Hi- I used to be an Executive Manager and regularly clocked up 75 hours / week 48 weeks / year. The balance I have struck is to fly regional jets in what I call a 5 to 9 job (6 to 10 actually). The pay isnt as good as the big boys (a lot better than I was on as a manager) I am,though, at home all but 2 or 3 nights /month.
Regarding trust shouldnt be a problem initially but once she gets married and lets herself go (as seems to be the way with British girls) the seven year itch, when you are out on the town with some attractive young girls, can become a problem. Checkout pilot divorce stats before convincing youself it will never happen to you. Go for it anyway....your a long time looking at the lid.

[Ignition Override]

The first question might be whether you can see yourself flying a desk/computer in a cubicle, traveling with a laptop for a job, or an office (with large window?) instead of an airplane for a living.
Don't forget that procedures are followed in a business, but especially in flying (the public has no awareness of how many we must comply with). Do you realize how much study is involved? But you are not stuck about five days a week where the boss might be around the corner...we rarely see our boss (Chief Pilot) Do you have 'stars in your eyes', and can only see long-term material rewards and the shiny gold or white stripes etc? Does your girlfriend seem bitten by the lifestyle and image "bug"? Do these rewards only have value if they happen rather soon, in the short-mid term? One must be totally honest with one's self and potential spouse. If present, be able to clearly see, and somehow deal with it (no matter how), or nasty, ugly surprises can lurk just over the horizon. Can a long-term girlfriend or fiance be satisfied with one's pursuit of an interesting career, have infinite patience (no matter whether a wive's sister or mother questions, behind your back, one's financial prospects...), and also be willing to work full-time, in order to help out?

Here are the reasons for these questions, although the situations might be a bit uncommon (?):
Pardon the personal angle here, but what if a lady becomes pregnant in the meantime as a young man struggles through the ratings and heavy heap of financial debt? For example, swimming is difficult with a wet flightsuit and boots, even with no sharks in the swimming pool. Without a very level-headed mate (and totally free of deep-seated emotional troubles...they will often get worse after marriage-guys or gals sometimes won't admit to themselves that these people have problems, and are very hesitant to probe deeper, and cancel an engagement...), serious questions about a few factors which can profoundly change your life, are always a stark reality. My brother 'lost' his (unstable) second wife, who strongly resented the fact that she ALSO needed to work, for them to survive, as he decided to earn his ratings at age 32 or so (she was raised with the idea that having a baby or two was enough, and the need for a spouse to work, was not HER problem). His first wife, despite being quite level-headed, also had unrealistic financial expectations before he even decided to fly. Because he had children to support, he could not afford to work as regional First Officer-this is about US minimum wage. Along with flight instruction, it is often a very critical step in an airline career for US civilian pilots (multi-turbine PIC cross-country and solid instrument approach experience: rain, fog, snow...but never in very heavy rainshowers), unless they are one of the lucky few hired by a good corporate flight department, possibly charter company. Please also realize that an airline job can be used as a VERY HANDY excuse if a marriage flounders, but is not a valid reason, in my opinion. Usually egos and mis-matched personalities/expectations are the reason, from my perspective .

Second, can you afford to earn your ratings and probably earn little for a few years? Some luck (from hard work, persistence, multiple sources of info.) and an upswing in the economy at the right time are factors.

If you can agree to these general requirements, then maybe you can adjust to missing a Christmas (etc) or birthday each year for a while-but can a girlfriend or wife adjust to the totally unique lifestyle? Speaking of women, about 17 years ago I took a young German lady to lunch nearby. She lived not far from here as an "au pair" for a flight attendant who had a baby. The German girl had a boyfriend who was trying very hard to be selected by Lufthansa for the "ab initio" flight training program. Between bites of her sandwich, she suddenly (immer Angst vor Einkreisung...) brought up a subject about a vague notion, prevalent among those with no exposure to our industry: "Tell me about the Stewardesses"! I told her: " I don't find too many of ours very attractive, and almost all of the attractive ones either are married or always have a boyfriend; a fraction consists of men who have boyfriends..., many women are not very young, and don't worry about it". She was already concerned and anxious about some vague idea-her boyfriend had not even been accepted yet! What she had not considered, is the fact that the spouse at home, day after day, has more of an opportunity to "get into trouble". The other person is the one who almost always goes to different places, with often just enough time to sleep and shower (alone) after 4, 5 or even 7 flights in one duty period.

Pardon another very remote, negative possibilty, but, we had a lead flight attendant (just one...) who told us that SHE would decide when her husband (on probation) could upgrade from 727 to DC-10 etc. She would not allow a TDY stay in Paris, because of the 'women over there', or words to that effect, and I doubt that she had ever spent any time there (instructed by Hollywood movies with Gene Kelly? Certainly not "Frantic", with Harrison Ford). Maybe this insecure young Flight Attendant noticed how the foreign ladies eat a good bit less (she might have felt very self-conscious about her not-so-good figure...). My FO and I looked at each other and I wondered why the guy put up with such ludicrous, out-of-place treatment. I told him that with many of us she would quickly become history . But maybe these types are quite rare (?). Your situation will probably be much better-I honestly hope so.
On a more positive note, being apart from a wife not only gives you more to chat about (after you rest for a while), but mostly removes the boring daily routine which many people live through. Almost any spouse needs a little independence and time away (unless she grew up in a mountain cabin and had no shoes), unless they have some anxiety hang-ups. I told my wife last October in Maastricht, twice, that she could stay by herself an extra three days or so (my working trip at home began four days later) and see a nearby slice of Belgium, Aachen, Germany, even back to Delft, but despite being an experienced traveler, she simply did not want any problem traveling alone as a "non-rev"/staff wife.

If you can become interested in airplanes, as complex machinery and extensions of yourself, with basically reliable systems (which can fail) requiring knowledge of limitations, systems' knowledge and normal/abnormal procedures and (consider it) as a challenge, can gradually but nevertheless steadily learn to adjust to quickly-changing weather, air traffic control (atc) and other situations, first either as an instructor or as First Officer, working in an uncompromising, unstable industry, then flying might be for you . This might sound twisted, but sometimes the unknown makes it interesting. These comments might reflect mostly a US attitude, or not, but maybe you can cross-check it with attitudes and career factors "over there". Ratings over there can cost so much more! Lots of foreign types train in Florida etc. Beware, that in addition to the huge financial investments (unless selected ab initio), some beginning pilots might not encourage you to begin the long training route-you could later be competition for them, in a saturated market!

[kingoftheslipstream]

judojames...

you have asked a broadening eternal question, and you have already received some very thoughtful answers


if you have "the bug" as we say, then doing anything else in life will always leave you somewhat disatisfied

this is the greatest profession on earth, but it has its price to pay

good luck with your decision

[Airbus Girl]

James,
The hardest things are going to be whilst you are studying, as you will need to be very selfish and focused during this time.

Then you will be broke for quite a while until you are well into your first job and able to pay debts back.

Then it depends on the type of flying you are doing. Excluding BA, if you are flying short haul you are generally back most nights, and will fly a few nights a month as well. If you are long haul then you will be away much more, with more opportunities for straying. If working for BA I think its a bit different, as the short haul fleets do seem to do more tours of a few days at a time, although they probably get more days off in a month too.

I think that the most important quality your girlfriend will need is to have a full life herself, with plenty of interests and friends and basically not mind her own company and doing her own thing. You can probably work that out yourself - do you spend all your spare time together, does she demand all your attention?

It is easy for someone to say that they will support you, but unless they are their own person, they may put you under additional undue stress just when you don't need it.

[guclu]

judojamesg


Just consider you do not take this long and expensive route and you brake up suddenly ! Or you did not try this route and you are doing a job which doesn't make you happy !


Beleive me, if you are unhappy after some time you will be making the other person unhappy, too.

So, if this is "the job" for you which you wanna do, then do it.

I experienced exactly the same story and I was a design engineer with a good salary! Very hard work; every day at job. At night you have job in your mind. Now, I am very happy with my wife and she is,too. But as other people say, you might not be able to be at home for birthdays, cristmas, first walk/talk. But just consider that you are not alone. Someone has to do this job and everyjob has its own difficulties.


Hope it helped,

Guclu