Will BA meet its recruitment target?
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No, he just has nothing better to do! Mr Gossip as he's otherwise known. And certainly no secrets when you're around as you have a serious case of can't-keep-your-mouth-shut....
Love ya!
Love ya!
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The reasons why BA is finding it hard to recruit? Well as Lima/Alpha junk says very lengthy time to command (except if you want B737 Gatwick) and a money purchase pension scheme, I know of one person who changed his mind after being given a start date on the B777.
I too also know of top guys who've not made it through the interview process and it's all the more galling when you end up sat next to a complete prat for a few days wondering how they managed to get through when so many good people got rejected.
The ironic thing being that when BA took over BCal, Dan Air and City Flyer that hundreds of boys and girls came through without an interview.
As for...
This doesn't surprise me - she's probably a result of the BA politically correct campaign whereby minority groups are pushed ahead/given a head start to fill vacancies. Note that Bob Ayling was rewarded by the Queen with some title or other for his services to equal opportunities.
Anyway, back to the TV...
The reasons why BA is finding it hard to recruit? Well as Lima/Alpha junk says very lengthy time to command (except if you want B737 Gatwick) and a money purchase pension scheme, I know of one person who changed his mind after being given a start date on the B777.
I too also know of top guys who've not made it through the interview process and it's all the more galling when you end up sat next to a complete prat for a few days wondering how they managed to get through when so many good people got rejected.
The ironic thing being that when BA took over BCal, Dan Air and City Flyer that hundreds of boys and girls came through without an interview.
As for...
When I attended second stage BA some years ago all I saw throughout the interview was the top of the lady pilot interviewers head!
Anyway, back to the TV...
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No but if you have the attitude that you can't make a decision as an FO you wouldn't have got near the place.
We tend to like people who are strong willed and won't get pushed around.
The training department, of which I am part of, then proceed to treat FO's as future Captains from day 1, including a P1 rating on their licence.
Also we have no individual restriction on x-wind limits like many(all FO's are 2/3 airplane limits) and unlike many airlines in the UK our FO's can call STOP and touch flight controls such as speedbrakes.
We also encourage real P1US.
So I doubt you would have enjoyed it if you just like being led.
Oh and if you'll forgive my guessing...you didn't get in did you?
We tend to like people who are strong willed and won't get pushed around.
The training department, of which I am part of, then proceed to treat FO's as future Captains from day 1, including a P1 rating on their licence.
Also we have no individual restriction on x-wind limits like many(all FO's are 2/3 airplane limits) and unlike many airlines in the UK our FO's can call STOP and touch flight controls such as speedbrakes.
We also encourage real P1US.
So I doubt you would have enjoyed it if you just like being led.
Oh and if you'll forgive my guessing...you didn't get in did you?
BTSM.
If you are a BA trainer your above post shows a very poor attitude. The sarcasm in your last sentence says more about you than the rest of your post. I trust your debriefs are more professional than your contribution to this topic.
If you are a BA trainer your above post shows a very poor attitude. The sarcasm in your last sentence says more about you than the rest of your post. I trust your debriefs are more professional than your contribution to this topic.
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B-T-S-M. Lets not forget the empowerment felt when FO's get to fill in the fuel remaining figure in the tech log wow, just like being a real pilot.
Still waiting to make a decision in BA, how many years does it take? I have however touched the speed brake, it felt goooood!
BA recruits people who will fit into the corporate jelly mold. Being a good pilot is NOT a factor. Being interested in aviation and flying is NOT a factor. Being a company clone is VERY much THE factor.
If you want a job in BA you have to fit the very specific mold. Being strong willed is not one of them as you will find your inability to change anything very frustrating. It is, what it has always been, is, and always will be.
BA is not for everyone.Not getting into BA might be the best thing to happen to you.
Harry
Still waiting to make a decision in BA, how many years does it take? I have however touched the speed brake, it felt goooood!
BA recruits people who will fit into the corporate jelly mold. Being a good pilot is NOT a factor. Being interested in aviation and flying is NOT a factor. Being a company clone is VERY much THE factor.
If you want a job in BA you have to fit the very specific mold. Being strong willed is not one of them as you will find your inability to change anything very frustrating. It is, what it has always been, is, and always will be.
BA is not for everyone.Not getting into BA might be the best thing to happen to you.
Harry
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The new joiner to BA will be able to enjoy the recent incarnation of ‘forced draft’, and exciting little backwater of the rostering agreement where your days off can be changed in an instant with a threatening phone call from current ops to come in or your on a disciplinary!
Perhaps this slightly less vote winning policy has yet to impress the putative DEP who might prefer some of the more traditional terms and conditions offered by other employers such as days off, leave, and time with your family. Funnily enough, ‘I’m sorry, I’m the only one who can look after my children’, or I’m sorry but I’m not in the UK, have yet to be accepted as reasonable excuse to decline forced draft.
I imagine the slightly disappointing guest list is because those prospective new recruits who have done their homework have realised that working for BA is rapidly becoming a profoundly unpleasant experience.
It’s not the opposition I’m worried about, it’s my management I can’t beat!
Perhaps this slightly less vote winning policy has yet to impress the putative DEP who might prefer some of the more traditional terms and conditions offered by other employers such as days off, leave, and time with your family. Funnily enough, ‘I’m sorry, I’m the only one who can look after my children’, or I’m sorry but I’m not in the UK, have yet to be accepted as reasonable excuse to decline forced draft.
I imagine the slightly disappointing guest list is because those prospective new recruits who have done their homework have realised that working for BA is rapidly becoming a profoundly unpleasant experience.
It’s not the opposition I’m worried about, it’s my management I can’t beat!
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Harry
I'm sorry you have that attitude. I suspect you haven't worked for many other airlines or you would probably appreciate more the way you are treated on the flight deck.
If you have then you will know the reality and are probably just a sulking FO pissed off with the pay deal and probable increase in time to command
That is understandable.
However try to remember you enjoy the best Ts+Cs of any UK FO and for equivalent experience (time in) the best pay.
Airbrake, I'm touched by your feedback. Thanks. I'll make sure my debriefs would be up to a standard which I am sure you would approve.
As for the sarcasm, harsh but true I would say.
I'm sorry you have that attitude. I suspect you haven't worked for many other airlines or you would probably appreciate more the way you are treated on the flight deck.
If you have then you will know the reality and are probably just a sulking FO pissed off with the pay deal and probable increase in time to command
That is understandable.
However try to remember you enjoy the best Ts+Cs of any UK FO and for equivalent experience (time in) the best pay.
Airbrake, I'm touched by your feedback. Thanks. I'll make sure my debriefs would be up to a standard which I am sure you would approve.
As for the sarcasm, harsh but true I would say.
Last edited by behind_the_second_midland; 6th May 2005 at 15:27.
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B-T-S-M
Hang on, I don't have the ATTITUDE that I can't make decisions. What I was saying is that BA asked for SPECIFIC examples of a situation when I had made a whatever (good/bad) decision. My basic response on here was because I couldn't really see the point in going into great detail (hey, I didn't really think anyone would pick up on my answer and try to tell me why I didn't get in). However, if you'd like me to explain - I don't get to make decisions in such a situation that would be worthy of telling my potential new employers about. How about this "Well, I get to decide what fuel I want on the sectors I'm flying" WOW!!!!!!!! Bet they haven't heard that before. Or "Well we had bad weather one day, and had to divert. My company specifies alternates, but I told the Capt it was my decision to go there, I'd fly it, and he could get the weather". Wow. Or maybe not so... Get my point???
I do get to make decisions, and am encouraged to do so by the Capts I fly with. My whole point was that due to a relative lack of flying experience (I'm 22) I didn't have many decent answers to their questions, which as far as I'm concerned had little to do with me as a person. So what if someone else has had an emergency where they made a great decision because the Capt had become incapacitated?!?!? Does that automatically make them a better person for the job? I was being interviewed for a FIRST OFFICER position - a position where you do know how to fly, blah blah blah, but can be moulded and TAUGHT along the way. Surely those questions would be far better suited to a direct entry capt, who most likely has got some stories to tell.
Oh, and would it have been better for me to LIE and come up with some corker examples???
>>Also we have no individual restriction on x-wind limits like many(all FO's are 2/3 airplane limits) and unlike many airlines in the UK our FO's can call STOP and touch flight controls such as speedbrakes<<
Umm, we have the same crosswind limits after 100hrs, and FO's being allowed to touch the flight controls?! Surely not!! If I was going to join a company where they thought they were special because they allowed a fully trained FO to touch a flying control, I'd definitely be going to the wrong place!
Hang on, I don't have the ATTITUDE that I can't make decisions. What I was saying is that BA asked for SPECIFIC examples of a situation when I had made a whatever (good/bad) decision. My basic response on here was because I couldn't really see the point in going into great detail (hey, I didn't really think anyone would pick up on my answer and try to tell me why I didn't get in). However, if you'd like me to explain - I don't get to make decisions in such a situation that would be worthy of telling my potential new employers about. How about this "Well, I get to decide what fuel I want on the sectors I'm flying" WOW!!!!!!!! Bet they haven't heard that before. Or "Well we had bad weather one day, and had to divert. My company specifies alternates, but I told the Capt it was my decision to go there, I'd fly it, and he could get the weather". Wow. Or maybe not so... Get my point???
I do get to make decisions, and am encouraged to do so by the Capts I fly with. My whole point was that due to a relative lack of flying experience (I'm 22) I didn't have many decent answers to their questions, which as far as I'm concerned had little to do with me as a person. So what if someone else has had an emergency where they made a great decision because the Capt had become incapacitated?!?!? Does that automatically make them a better person for the job? I was being interviewed for a FIRST OFFICER position - a position where you do know how to fly, blah blah blah, but can be moulded and TAUGHT along the way. Surely those questions would be far better suited to a direct entry capt, who most likely has got some stories to tell.
Oh, and would it have been better for me to LIE and come up with some corker examples???
>>Also we have no individual restriction on x-wind limits like many(all FO's are 2/3 airplane limits) and unlike many airlines in the UK our FO's can call STOP and touch flight controls such as speedbrakes<<
Umm, we have the same crosswind limits after 100hrs, and FO's being allowed to touch the flight controls?! Surely not!! If I was going to join a company where they thought they were special because they allowed a fully trained FO to touch a flying control, I'd definitely be going to the wrong place!
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Well don't go to Britannia then as last time I heard they weren't allowed to touch the speedbrakes. Maybe someone can comment?
Also many airlines do not allow FO's to call stop and sign their licence P2.
As for your interview, If I interviewed a serving airline FO and they couldn't enlighten me with a decision making process that they had gone through, or were forced to make, which had an impact on the operation, I probably wouldn't give them the job either.
However did you explain that your limited experience made the question difficult, but then proceed to expand on other situations in life where a similar decision process was required?
As for lying, no, but you do have to sell yourself.
All that said if you are a female with long legs and two other assets, who cares?
Good luck wherever you have ended up
Well don't go to Britannia then as last time I heard they weren't allowed to touch the speedbrakes. Maybe someone can comment?
Also many airlines do not allow FO's to call stop and sign their licence P2.
As for your interview, If I interviewed a serving airline FO and they couldn't enlighten me with a decision making process that they had gone through, or were forced to make, which had an impact on the operation, I probably wouldn't give them the job either.
However did you explain that your limited experience made the question difficult, but then proceed to expand on other situations in life where a similar decision process was required?
As for lying, no, but you do have to sell yourself.
All that said if you are a female with long legs and two other assets, who cares?
Good luck wherever you have ended up
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Yes I did. Please don't think I sat there going - ummmmmm, sorry can' think of anything. I'd gone into it well-planned, and because I knew I had limited experience in flying I had plenty of other suitable alternative situations.....
As for going through the decision-making process - yup. Done it many times...and told them about such times....
And two ticks in the boxes for long legs and other assets. Obviously not good enough assets - although I think they're a decent handful!!! (Thinking back, I was interviewed by two women.......)
As for going through the decision-making process - yup. Done it many times...and told them about such times....
And two ticks in the boxes for long legs and other assets. Obviously not good enough assets - although I think they're a decent handful!!! (Thinking back, I was interviewed by two women.......)
Is it really true that BA only allow their F/Os to land in 2/3rds of the aircraft crosswind (demonstrated) limit?
If true, you obviously don't have much faith in them!
Our F/Os have no such get-out clause and have to be able to hack the full 35 knots across.
Furthermore, I have been a TRI/TRE for donkey's years and have NEVER signed a F/O's license as P2. I can't believe this happens.
If true, you obviously don't have much faith in them!
Our F/Os have no such get-out clause and have to be able to hack the full 35 knots across.
Furthermore, I have been a TRI/TRE for donkey's years and have NEVER signed a F/O's license as P2. I can't believe this happens.
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In that case I look forward to meeting you
and of course will female recruiters you may have had just a few too many assets.
The girl from BACX that has just got in was obviously interviewed by blokes!
In that case I look forward to meeting you
and of course will female recruiters you may have had just a few too many assets.
The girl from BACX that has just got in was obviously interviewed by blokes!
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Dear Hoppy
I apologise if my view of BA is as stated, but these are the facts as I see them. I cannot comment on everyones experience of BA, only my own. Since you have no idea about my background and experiences then you cannot really comment on my viewpoint.
Generalisations are "generally" dangerous so I try to avoid them. However BA recruits people who are interested in working for BA and BA alone. They have to be a blank canvas(much like Tim in The Apprentice) in order that they may be suitably programmed. BA requires people who will fit in, they do not need to interested in their area of expertise. For that reason many of the managers within BA have little or no expertise of their area of concern as BA is of the opinion that a manager is "a manager" and can be slotted in anywhere within the organisation.
Also, pilots are selected for their ability to be BA people rather than pilots. TEP's do indeed come from a variety of backgrounds but it is their interest in BA that is important not whether they are interested in flying. Remember BA can teach anyone to fly (this opinion is not mine but that of the BA training dept).
From my experiences elsewhere I can confirm that other companies seem to recruit people that are interested in flying first and foremost and therefore do not care how they get a job, as long as its a flying job. BA's pilots consist of a large portion of people who consider the "lifestyle" that BA offers to be of prime importance.
The money is alright, especially if you are inexperienced. But moving from any other company with experience and you are liable to be less well off.
ER82, I don't know where you went wrong but my guess is that you were not deemed to be a BA person. That may be a good thing as it will allow you the opportunity to work for a company where you are better suited. Please do not fixate on BA as the be all and end all.
Some people view it as the best company to work for in aviation, that viewpoint depends on your goals and interests.
Please don't believe the hype, a lot of people do, and they don't like it when its pointed out that the emperor has no clothes.
Harry
I apologise if my view of BA is as stated, but these are the facts as I see them. I cannot comment on everyones experience of BA, only my own. Since you have no idea about my background and experiences then you cannot really comment on my viewpoint.
Generalisations are "generally" dangerous so I try to avoid them. However BA recruits people who are interested in working for BA and BA alone. They have to be a blank canvas(much like Tim in The Apprentice) in order that they may be suitably programmed. BA requires people who will fit in, they do not need to interested in their area of expertise. For that reason many of the managers within BA have little or no expertise of their area of concern as BA is of the opinion that a manager is "a manager" and can be slotted in anywhere within the organisation.
Also, pilots are selected for their ability to be BA people rather than pilots. TEP's do indeed come from a variety of backgrounds but it is their interest in BA that is important not whether they are interested in flying. Remember BA can teach anyone to fly (this opinion is not mine but that of the BA training dept).
From my experiences elsewhere I can confirm that other companies seem to recruit people that are interested in flying first and foremost and therefore do not care how they get a job, as long as its a flying job. BA's pilots consist of a large portion of people who consider the "lifestyle" that BA offers to be of prime importance.
The money is alright, especially if you are inexperienced. But moving from any other company with experience and you are liable to be less well off.
ER82, I don't know where you went wrong but my guess is that you were not deemed to be a BA person. That may be a good thing as it will allow you the opportunity to work for a company where you are better suited. Please do not fixate on BA as the be all and end all.
Some people view it as the best company to work for in aviation, that viewpoint depends on your goals and interests.
Please don't believe the hype, a lot of people do, and they don't like it when its pointed out that the emperor has no clothes.
Harry
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Sorry mate but us Britts boys/gals certainly DO touch the speedbrake. There is a crosswind limit on S/O's but not F/O's. Although I more than happy to hand over in a 40knot crosswind. Im not too proud to admit.
All F/O's from ALL companies should be prepared to say STOP. How can you be sure the captain didnt becomae incapacitated at the start of the roll?
The BA selection isnt that hard. If you dont have flying examples use something from other aspects of your life. I personally turned BA down as us Britannia mob still have a final salary pension(even for new joiners), RAPID command due to expansion and ,oh yes, we get to touch the speedbrake.
MAX
All F/O's from ALL companies should be prepared to say STOP. How can you be sure the captain didnt becomae incapacitated at the start of the roll?
The BA selection isnt that hard. If you dont have flying examples use something from other aspects of your life. I personally turned BA down as us Britannia mob still have a final salary pension(even for new joiners), RAPID command due to expansion and ,oh yes, we get to touch the speedbrake.
MAX