Terms and Endearment The forum the bean counters hoped would never happen. Your news on pay, rostering, allowances, extras and negotiations where you work - scheduled, charter or contract.

Ryanair?

Old 22nd Apr 2005, 12:10
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Ryanair?

What are my chanses to get employed by ryan with a few hundred hours on the 737 Classic (3/4/500) and a NG diff?
I've heard that ryan requires you to pay for a whole NG type rating at one of their approved schools anyway!

Cheers
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Old 22nd Apr 2005, 13:14
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Pay the fee and off you go, with low hours or high hours
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Old 22nd Apr 2005, 13:29
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don't forget that vaseline!
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Old 23rd Apr 2005, 08:03
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And make sure yer phone is fully charged before you get to Scroogeland.
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Old 23rd Apr 2005, 09:06
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.......and bring your own coffee when waiting to be interviewed.
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Old 23rd Apr 2005, 09:46
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Oh yes... and bring the money to pay for your evaluation as a prospective employee, plus the simulator payment for your sim check... start, in other words, as they intend you to continue....

P.S. Don't forget that if you do not have a contract BEFORE you start then you cannot complain afterwards about the scams (such as not getting paid the amounts you expected, nor when expected).
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Old 23rd Apr 2005, 17:24
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Gonnabe,

With a 737 type rating you could be employed by Ryanair after completing their differences course which you may have to pay for. After that you will probably be employed as a second officer for around 12 months before progressing on to a first officer. Then my friend you will earn a great deal of money, fly brand spanking new 737-800s & have a stable roster pattern which can't be said for many other carriers, low cost schedule, charter or scheduled. Now, if you are prepared to work for it it doesn't sound too bad a deal does it?....

Unfortunately far too many people jump on the Ryanair bashing bandwagon who have absolutely no experience of the company whatsoever. You can probably see this from the above posts. As for bringing your own coffee to the interview then just check out BA's selection day. You are not even allowed to park your car in their staff car park right outside of Cranbank when you attend, nor are you allowed into their hollowed canteen!

Go for FRs selection day & you will find that it is practical & applies to your profession, with an interview & a sim check. Go for many others & you may find that unless you have studied Psychobable for 20 years & can't shoot down 'enemy aircraft' on a computer game your stuffed. You pay your money & you take your choice my friend.
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Old 23rd Apr 2005, 20:16
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The Potter.... hmmm..... Some questions for you, I have....

Is it true that you have to pay Ryanair to process an application to be a pilot?

And that the applicant has to pay in advance for their simulator assessment?

Is it true that different trainees often have different contracts, with different conditions?

Is it true that some contracts only allow for the pilot to receive basic pay once he or she is checked out at the end of line training?

Is it true that if line training is delayed that the new trainee will then receive no pay at all, and, in certain circumstances might even be required to make his way (at own expense) to EMA for a simulator refresher?

Is it true that these famous "expected earnings" are frequently not quite as good as you seem to imply?

I notice you went for attacking other selection processes and access to a canteen. Where might I find a Ryanair canteen? (That's an excuse for you to talk about wonderful Ryanair low costs and avoid the subject).
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Old 23rd Apr 2005, 21:27
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SNAM, you too are welcome to answer "in a constructive manner" the questions I provided above for the potter.

Ryanair may or may not be a well structured company, but after all this forum is for discussing "Terms and Endearment". I have identified above some of many issues that should concern a prospective new pilot. I'm sure you will agree and provide some guidance via clear answers.
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Old 23rd Apr 2005, 23:53
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Thanks to SNAM and The Potter for the constructive and serious answers. Perhaps we might see each other up there some day!
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Old 24th Apr 2005, 08:24
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Since you are all happy, so be it.

However, my advice is simple. If you start working for Ryanair without a clear and unambigous agreement, in advance, and in writing, then what existing pilots tell you is meaningless (as what they tell you cannot be assumed to apply to you).

I say this because you may simply join the many others who discovered, too late, that THEIR conditions were a lot different/worse than both other pilots and Ryanair told them, that the promised base was not available, etc., etc. Ryanair pilots who are unaware of what I am talking about must live in a pecularily cut-off environment.

I do not disagree about the pilot shortage that Ryanair increasingly suffers. That is the good news. But it is Ryanair's response to this shortage - for example using methods of "locking pilots in" for the coming years that should be of more interest to a new recruit. There has also been news of a change to F/Os pay that you should aquaint yourself with - (good for new pilots, whom Ryanair now need badly, but at the expense of the "higher earning" senior F/Os. These changes will be imposed, not negotiated).

gonnabe, with your rating and low hours you are very likely to get the job - Ryanair prefer people like you (however watch out for an unexpected "line training Bond", which might apply to you). There is also good news with respect to the base in Sweden - it is by common consensus the best run and happiest in Ryanair (if you get it). Just do your research before you ask your questions. I hope that you consider this to be a "constructive and serious answer". Good Luck!
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Old 24th Apr 2005, 12:29
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The answers to all of GGV previous questions is YES.

Think long and hard before joining, look at all the previous threads on Ryanair. Why is there so much unrest within the pilot body if all is rosey within? Why are there so many court cases in the running? Why is Ryanair in the papers almost daily due to its 'employee' relations?

There are a few good points. Good rostering and good pay FOR THE PEOPLE WHO JOINED A FEW YEARS AGO. Its in the region of E15000 plus half sector pay for a new join SO, not forgetting that you have paid for the sim check the CV and your type rating.

Im not someone on the outside looking in, Im on the inside looking out! The market is opening up for pilots, jobs are slowly starting to come up. Do think long and hard
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Old 24th Apr 2005, 18:34
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GGV, you raise some points that are valid & I can't address each & every one of them it is true. It is also true of many other carriers who will try anything that they get away with to rip off the pilot work force. To attempt to answer some of your points:-

I was rated on the 737 when I joined & did not pay FR for an interview, or a sim ride or for my LPC. A former colleague of mine (who failed the sim check) also did not pay them a penny & he only had about 100 hours on the 737-300.

No one in FR tried to 'bond' me as I was already rated, this is not the case with Jet2 who have the cheek to apply a 5,000 bond if an already type rated pilot leaves them within the first year & this bond doesn't decrease during the 12 months. Their pay & rostering are total crap from what I hear. With FR we get a fixed roster pattern & a salary, all in, of approximately 58,000 per annum.

GGV, name me an airline who hasn't left pilots out to dry. Go on, just one. Name me an airline who hasn't kicked it's people in the balls when it felt it had to commercially.

So many people start to knock FR who have never even spent a day working with us. We have an excellent team of TRI/TREs & training Captains & our SOPs are sound, they have to be. We will also be around for a long time to come so if Gonnabe wants to join a progressive &, yes, sometimes aggressively marketed airline then he could do far worse than Ryanair.
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Old 25th Apr 2005, 16:40
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Another question.........or two
If you want a base in particular (CIA) when joining, should you only join on a ryr contract (not third party) so you dont get moved around??
Do pilots on a ryr contract get paid less in europe (CIA) than UK? If so, what would be the norm?

Cheers
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Old 27th Apr 2005, 01:11
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The Potter

You seem to be avoiding (or missing) the point.

One should think long and hard about working for Ryanair. It is absolutely true that you will pay for your application to be read, never mind accepted, pay for the sim ride, pay for the course, pay for it back over however long they decide on the day you should.

Nobody has attacked Ryanair pilots. Ryanair pilots are professionals at the end of the day who work in a commercially challenging industry, just like everyone else.

But tell me of an airline that goes and "kicks it's people in the balls" whilst crowing about being the most profitable, fastest expanding etc etc in the industry? Is this commercially reasonable?

It is also a fact that recently recruited pilots have been informed of some "typographical errors" in their contracts. So the goalposts shift. In whose favour?

There is no shortage of work out there! So shop around!
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Old 27th Apr 2005, 13:26
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There are over 100 victimisation cases before the courts against this company by the pilots.
The boss is in court today to see if he's going to jail for contempt of court regarding suspending a pilot whom they want rid of .
Unless the most senior pilots in the company pay 18000 grand to convert to the 800, he now says he's cutting their pay.
Is this the place you want to join.
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Old 28th Apr 2005, 10:53
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SNAM,

In Spain there are some airlines hiring people with 200-300-400 TT and the Company pays the TR. All of them have much better T&C's than Ryanair (work less, earn more), with very good agreements, nice and relaxed environment and union protection. The shame is that by now most of them just want spanish speaking crews.

Cheers
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Old 28th Apr 2005, 18:50
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snam - go to ryanair and have a great time!
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Old 14th May 2005, 20:11
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I wonder which spanish airlines crisidebrian is talking about, because as far as I know, none of them are hiring low houred pilots even if you speak Spanish, English or Chinese, so unless you uncle owns the company, I am afraid you chances of getting a job are quite slim.
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Old 15th May 2005, 15:05
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Cipri,

The problem in Spain is that there are too many (more than 4000) jobless low houred pilots, so Companies are hiring the son of, or the brother of someone inside the Company, wich is normal as far as they are private and free to hire whoever they want. It's impossible to think of a selection process for all the 4000 plus jobless pilots, because that would cost millions. Just imagine a 30 minute simulator check for 4000 pilots... hundreds of instructors and maybe every simulator in Europe to be able to do it in less than 1 year: impossible.
Imagine a Company that needs a lawyer making a selection process for every jobless lawyer in the Country, maybe 15000, and imagine every jobless lawyer claiming for their right of attending to every selection process of every Company hiring. Senseless.
In Spain there are too many schools (FTO) and too many people thinking they will fly a Jumbo and earn a lot of money just days after finishing their training. You shouldn't start an expensive training without having a job prospection in the future, and if you do so, then you have to assimilate the consequences. Most of the jobless pilots in Spain will never fly a commercial airplane.
Anyway, spanish Companies do hire low houred pilots. In Air Madrid, for example, they are hiring 200-300 hour pilots to fly an A330 (they might look after some University degree, though). The same in Futura, Iberworld, etc.
Cheers
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