FlyBe Pay Deal 2005.

[Nil further]

The much lauded return to profitability must be under serious threat with the RJ / wet lease fiasco , the cabin crews 30% and a proposed 20% for pilots .

As Smokie says "interesting times ahead"

[R3Hard]

I hear that Jersey European are looking at getting their own 737NGs or maybe 319s, anybody confirm or deny?? If so what are the chances of being based at EGTE, when i knew the 360 guys there it was generally the favoured few and management types.

I assume that Flystar are only sub contracting for a year or two? Also i hope that the opted out Flybes are getting salaries unlike the usual astraeus con of getting their F/O's to pay for the priviledge thereby undermining everyones T's +c's

[Smokie]

So getting back to the original thread.

The deal has been rejected, albeit by a slim majority but a majority it is.

For those of you who have now had the luxury ( or not ) of seeing your seniorty, Place/Number, increase by a 100 or more. Don't be fooled. Don't forget:.................

"Empowered Management" is "Divide & Rule"!!

The majority of the last to be suckered in saw the light and are now either Orange or Purple and Gold!!

T & C's, quality of life, better rostering, can far out weigh a crap Pay deal but when you get none of the afore mentioned what are you going to do?

Most do not have the balls to stay and fight and either Buggar off to pastures anew or try to keep their heads down..............because there are psychological contracts on offer................

LHS Q400.
RHS 146.
LHS 146.
LTC Q400.
LTC146.
TRI/TRE/IRE....

Yes, you can jump the Queue!
But we'll post you here there and everywhere.......eh! R.D.?

Hmmmmmm...... Seniority? don't think that word is in the Company Mannual!
Hmmm...Make a new post for myself (You Know who you are)

FACT.
Oh! just before you go to MONARCH, would please consider working the last 2 days "After your notice" We will pay you DOUBLE CONTRACT CAPTAINS SALARY to sit in tne RHS which you are only qualified for anway!! FACT.

What deal are you going to ask your CC members for?

5%? I don't think so!

There is more than one way to skin a cat..... or a RAT, as the case may be.





Lites Blue touch paper..............................

[Flying Fiona]

A meeting was held yesterday and the Ops director has flatly refused any increase on the original offer of 5%.

He has offered a few consessions for nite stops and extension of a duty period but that is it.

Stand together chaps and vote NO. If you vote for the new offer DO NOT MOAN ABOUT IT.

This is probably your last chance for an improved offer.

The company is making money hand over fist and screwing its employees in the process. I say again VOTE NO..

[beauport potato man]

FF

i quite agree with your sentiments towards a NO VOTE - my only problem rests with the minority of spineless people within the company.

The vote (if i remember correctly) was 51.8% NO..... therefore not a massive amount of people to sway in order to get the next vote through.

I'm sure that the majority of our pilots feel strongly about this pay deal - but that doesn't always transparent to the vote.

Here's hoping eh?

BPM

[Hudson Bay]

Looks like 5% then. You lot have no back bone.

If I hear anybody moaning about wages and how badly you are treated, I for one will remind you what a big girls blouse you all are. Bunch of idiots.

[Smokie]

Likewise, anyone moaning about any of the afore mentioned will get no quarter from me either.

I too shall be looking after No1, just like all the spineless onanists who will eventually look after themselves, getting the required experience, only to Bugga Awf and leave us in the lurch.

Except I shall have more "sickies" to drop the rest of you spinless gits in it.( don't blame me you had your chance)
Won't do Discretion, will tech more aircraft, ensure that every thing goes in the book, etc, etc etc, gettin the picture yet?


The cat will be well and trully skinned! Your Call.

[ATIS]

Too late, I have already left

Smokie how do you tech more a/c. I thought an a/c was tech when its tech, or are you flying around with ADD stickers all over the bloomin place.

Also how about joining the next brigade of resigners. I was in two minds about whether to leave or not. airbus/boeing talks were like dangling carrotts in my face. It took one of the captains I was flying with to slap me about a bit so I could come to my senses. It only needed him to ask me how much BS I had heard during my time there.

I could write a movie saga on par with star wars regarding all the BS I had to listen to.

Spend your 5% wisely. A new Armani suit for the future interviews would be a suggestion.

[Smokie]

The Armarni suit seems like a fine plan.
As does going into business manufacturing little yellow stickers and floggin them to the Airlines!!!!

[beauport potato man]

Hudson Bay,

sweeping generalisation for even someone of average intelligence?

"if i hear anyone moaning about wages or how they are treated..."

"bunch of idiots"

I guess you mean EVERYONE in the pilot workforce then?

EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THE 300+ PILOTS?????

Are they ALL a bunch of idiots?

Even the ones who have fought/argued/ballotted for change? Those ones who will be let down by the YES voting transient pilots stopping off on their way to EasyJet.... or the others who are too spineless to ask for what they are worth?

There are plenty here who want to see change as the last vote shows. Unfortunately the small NO majority won't be too hard to swing with the promise of an extra sausage in their crew meal and 2p on their duty pay.

As for the rest they will be disappointed AGAIN at missing the chance to get what they deserve whilst the company is in a better and stronger position to deliver it.

If you post again (and please do coz i like a laugh) then at least make it a valid / sensible opinion.

BPM

[Nil further]

BPM

"stopping off on their way to easyjet "

Quite a few of your colleagues have tried and failed to get in to easyjet ,including one of the more voiciferous posters on this topic .

Remember when you make statements like "prostitue myself to a low cost " that lots of people read this website ,some of them work for ezy , some of them conduct the interviews .

The arrogant asumption that any airline is desperate for your skills and will bite your hand off the minute you apply is well wide of the mark . . . . . . many of your colleagues have found that the hard way .

You must know a load of people who have made the jump , i suggest you talk to them about the interview process and the training standards , its a different world .

NF

[Smokie]

It appears that the Flight Op's Director has selective short term Memory. He has only agreed to the 5%, none of the Extra's and flatly denies having ever mentioning them.

Yet again the words, teeth, his, through and lying, spring to mind.

[beauport potato man]

Prostituting myself to a low cost.......

Handing over more and more money in order to get what you want.....
Since arriving in the market LoCo's have almost made this an industry norm and it is now frightening the amount of money needed for someone to go thru all of the flight training AND joining a LoCo.

"An airline desperate for MY flying skills?"

No.

I'm not very good and don't fill in application forms so that comment means nothing to me.

But.... with the rate at which they (ezy etc) are expanding i betcha they are PLEASED to receive applications from people with EFIS time or 1500+ with a bit of jet. You telling me they're not?
Sure some don't get thru but that is down to the individual and the personal interview / sim etc.

As there are people reading this from the EZY intervew panel, can they answer this Q? With a highish pilot turnover at the moment and a regular delivery of a/c are you PLEASED or NOT PLEASED to receive applications from pilots with the necessary skills....?

Also i do know a few who have made the jump. All are still well and flying regularly. Not sure what your point was there - are you suggesting that their interviews, type ratings and line training was infinately harder than mine hence the "different world?"

If this is the case then how on earth do the flybe pilots going to ezy cope?
Are they all just lucky that they are so much better than the flybe standards that making to the jump to ezy is not too much of an intellectual leap?

And by "training standards" are you suggesting that other airlines (and you heavily suggest flybe in your reply) have LOW standards in their training? Not just have different SOP's or training methods, BUT ARE ACTUALLY substandard?

Well in which case i will bring this up with the relevant people at EXT because obviously we are more of a risk to the travelling public and therefore have a duty to let them know how much better ezy are and how much safer they will be travelling orange, or indeed any other LoCo.

Also judging by your ferocious reply how about you tell us about your experince then.......

BPM

[er82]

Didn't take part in the vote.... I'm one of those jumping ship.... but do feel very sorry for those who said No to the deal and got bumped by those who will accept working for peanuts.... They went after the 'stable roster' and better lifestyle over a decent pay-rise - and we all know that's just BS the management dish out and never deliver on......

Nil Further - first of all, you seem to be under the impression that BPM would actually want to go to ezy... and should therefore "talk to them about the interview process and the training standards , its a different world ." No matter what the interview process, if you've got the cash and are willing to sell your soul to the bank-manager-devil then that's a big tick in the box......
Training standards - well, it can't be that bad if over 90 flight deck have recently been accepted to other airlines after having passed sim checks. Surely if we were that bad we wouldnt have been offered jobs......

As for the arrogant assumption bit - I've re-read BPM's post and can't see the bit where he said anything about "any airline being desperate for his skills"..... that came from you... He was making a general mark that lots of pilots join flybe as a stepping stone onto other carriers..... which they do. Out of interest, did you ever work for FlyBe???

Oh, and could be just the way you've posted, but you seem to come across as being totally arrogant yourself.....


The pay-deal sucks. Guys/Gals here deserve more, but unfortunately there will always be a group who can't be bothered to fight for what they deserve, and will sit back and take an easy ride of what the management offer them....

[80ktsboth]

Couldn't agree more with BPM and er82.

But we are going off point.....

As i understand BPM's point the whole easyjet correlation was to show, in general, that pilots who use flybe as a stop gap don't care about the salary and terms and conditions and therefore vote YES. This in turn scuppers the rest of the pilot workforce into reluctantly accepting 5% even if we voted NO.

This clearly needs to change and its important to get the message through to all Balpa members to stand firm and vote NO be that through pprune, flyingbe, on the flight deck or in the pub.

Talks with the CC and management are in critical stages....as new concessions were agreed at a previous meeting then disagreed during the next conversation.

Surely there's proof i hear you cry...the minutes of the meeting......that's true but unfortunatley the minutes of the previous meeting are agreed at the beginning of the next meeting....leaving negociations in the balance.

It seems the CC rep's are in a game of poker with the management at the moment. Jim French thinks the CC are bluffing and will fold thereby accepting 5%. I also think that he believes the CC rep's don't have the balls to take negociations to dispute with Balpa.

Bullies only respond to strength...........and I for one hope the CC rep's stand firm and don't concede on any of the points they are trying to achieve.

Time to give Jim a like Tony.

8KB

[Riker]

Slightly off topic, but I read that Flybe just purchased a bunch of Avro RJ100s from Turkish. This must be good news for a lot of the Q400 guys who were so concerned about never getting jet time before they leap for Easyjet or an IT carrier.

[er82]

Nope..... They had got some RJ's, started all the training, then found out they had too much corrosion (I think). Anyway, they've gone now.

As for the Q400 drivers 'so concerned' about getting jet time - we don't need it!!!!

[ATIS]

.........Unless you aspire to join the ranks of Virgin or Emirates. I'm pretty sure they won't touch you even with a million million million hours on the Q400.

[Nil further]

BPM er82

Didnt mean to upset guys , i suffered years of bull at flybe myself . When i said there was a different world out there i meant there is a world where you are paid properly and treated as a proffessional and allowed to operate the aircraft in the way the manufacturer's intended . A world where you dont get some a**e of a jet fleet manager phoning you up and threatening the sack you if you dont fly an aircraft for technical reasons.

Training standards . Its a fact and you may not like it , smaller companies in general have different training standards from the majors . There are people flying in the left hand seat in regional airline's on turbo props who would never meet the standard required for medium /heavy jet command in a major airline. ( there are also some fantastic people who choose to be there)Out of the many hundreds of people i have flown with in both seats at this airline i have never come across anyone about whos ability i had any doubt at all . IN flybe We all know of guys who were promoted purely on the basis they had the hours and the seniority.

I spent many years on the 146 and flew it to some of the most interesting places in europe INN , LCY et all the head of training when i was there was true gent' and a great trainer . The recurrent checks though were at a different level to my current employer.

Sorry if it comes across as arrogant , the fact is many of us have worked dam hard to get out of flybe and in to something else. There is a different world out there , please come and join the party ; but dont forget youwill have to sell yourself pretty hard along the way.

Good luck to you all.

[Flying Fiona]

Conditions will never get better as long as Mike W. is there. He was pushed at Air UK and he needs pushing now. The guy has his head in the sand.