Lest We Forget
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Lest We Forget
Lately there has been, and will no doubt continue to be, a ongoing discourse on the perceived decline of the piloting profession and the so-called erosion of terms and conditions of pilot employment, much of it ill-informed and perhaps driven by fear. Reluctance to embrace change is a feature of the human condition, yet we seem over time to muddle through regardless.
For those of us inclined to overlook the immutable reality that markets, or more precisely, customers determine commercial success or failure or airlines, you may care to refresh your memories as to the immutable reality of what happens when we get it wrong.
Successful airlines mean jobs, security and a future....lest we forget.
For those of us inclined to overlook the immutable reality that markets, or more precisely, customers determine commercial success or failure or airlines, you may care to refresh your memories as to the immutable reality of what happens when we get it wrong.
Successful airlines mean jobs, security and a future....lest we forget.
PPRuNe Handmaiden
Perhaps it's worth noting which airlines went under because of bad or mismanagement and those that went under because of action by crew.
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Lest we forget is right!
Lest we forget the effort and dedication that pilot apply to their challenging work daily.
Lest we forget the Captain sholders 99% of the liability of a flight and its success.
Pilots are selling themselves short. And I am not getting Ms. T eyed over the past either, pilots are the success or failure of any airline!
Lest we forget the effort and dedication that pilot apply to their challenging work daily.
Lest we forget the Captain sholders 99% of the liability of a flight and its success.
Pilots are selling themselves short. And I am not getting Ms. T eyed over the past either, pilots are the success or failure of any airline!
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This free market stuff is great Ms. Ozi, but Ryanair does not operate in free market. It does exactly the same as any other business, it attempts to control its market where it can. You continuously sing the merits of free enterprise, but in doing so you do not sing the merits of what you actually do when you try to gain competitive advantage; rather you throw propaganda about.
Meanwhile you get on with sending solicitors letters, threatening governments, your staff and anyone else who comes along to challenge your obsessive view of the world. Why, says you, would people want to complain because you treat your people, and any disadvantaged passengers for that matter, exceedingly poorly – don’t they get great deals?
Are you really saying that market forces apply to Ryanair pilots? Yes you are. They may apply to your contract pilots, but what of your internal pilot market with its low costs, or the Eastern European cabin crew trapped into a situation by your agents – good for credible deniability that – in which they are as good as indentured labour.
And Ms. Turret, you can simply churn out gobbledegook till the cows come home about how you are doing them and your passengers a favour, but the sad reality has become reasonably well known. Are all those horror stories really the result of malevolent forces?
Wildly self-serving statistics and verbal bullying do not substitute for reality. Reality comes to bear in the end. It has humbled better persons than thou, even those who knew a lot more about wild self-belief and exploitation.
Meanwhile you get on with sending solicitors letters, threatening governments, your staff and anyone else who comes along to challenge your obsessive view of the world. Why, says you, would people want to complain because you treat your people, and any disadvantaged passengers for that matter, exceedingly poorly – don’t they get great deals?
Are you really saying that market forces apply to Ryanair pilots? Yes you are. They may apply to your contract pilots, but what of your internal pilot market with its low costs, or the Eastern European cabin crew trapped into a situation by your agents – good for credible deniability that – in which they are as good as indentured labour.
And Ms. Turret, you can simply churn out gobbledegook till the cows come home about how you are doing them and your passengers a favour, but the sad reality has become reasonably well known. Are all those horror stories really the result of malevolent forces?
Wildly self-serving statistics and verbal bullying do not substitute for reality. Reality comes to bear in the end. It has humbled better persons than thou, even those who knew a lot more about wild self-belief and exploitation.
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Calling Ms Ozi, where have you gone. We do, really DO, miss you. Please come back and set us correctly upon the path of airline wisdom.
P.S. Any chance of the apology that is outstanding on the other thread?
P.S. Any chance of the apology that is outstanding on the other thread?
Also remember that airline economic restructuring has safety implications too:
Read the following report:
Joint Aviation Authorities (JAA) Sponsored Research Study into the Flight Deck Implications of Airline Restructuring
At:
http://www.icon-consulting.com/study...s/reportv2.pdf
I quote:
The consequences of recent developments have the potential to affect flight deck performance. Airline mergers and alliances will change the organisational culture in which individuals work, and this in turn may influence individual performance. They are likely, also, to increase the incidence of multi-national flight crew. As more flexibility is required of airline staff, effects such as changes in morale and increased fatigue may be seen.
and:
Unsympathetic rostering increases fatigue, upsets sleep patterns, reduces morale and has a detrimental effect on the personal life of crew. In some cases this is combined with a reduced ratio of crew per aircraft, leading to a loss of flexibility and pressure to fly despite personal welfare.
Significantly:
Captains are increasingly being required to make economic decisions, which is often counter to their traditional role of safely flying the aircraft. There is sometimes a dilemma between safety and economics: a Captain has the responsibility for the safety of a flight but may be blamed by management if he or she is thought to have taken a commercially detrimental decision. If a pilot succumbs to commercial pressure and as a result is involved in an incident, he cannot, in law, defend his position by saying that the company pressured him to take the actions that he did.
Some pilots find this dilemma difficult to resolve on a day to day basis.
Read the following report:
Joint Aviation Authorities (JAA) Sponsored Research Study into the Flight Deck Implications of Airline Restructuring
At:
http://www.icon-consulting.com/study...s/reportv2.pdf
I quote:
The consequences of recent developments have the potential to affect flight deck performance. Airline mergers and alliances will change the organisational culture in which individuals work, and this in turn may influence individual performance. They are likely, also, to increase the incidence of multi-national flight crew. As more flexibility is required of airline staff, effects such as changes in morale and increased fatigue may be seen.
and:
Unsympathetic rostering increases fatigue, upsets sleep patterns, reduces morale and has a detrimental effect on the personal life of crew. In some cases this is combined with a reduced ratio of crew per aircraft, leading to a loss of flexibility and pressure to fly despite personal welfare.
Significantly:
Captains are increasingly being required to make economic decisions, which is often counter to their traditional role of safely flying the aircraft. There is sometimes a dilemma between safety and economics: a Captain has the responsibility for the safety of a flight but may be blamed by management if he or she is thought to have taken a commercially detrimental decision. If a pilot succumbs to commercial pressure and as a result is involved in an incident, he cannot, in law, defend his position by saying that the company pressured him to take the actions that he did.
Some pilots find this dilemma difficult to resolve on a day to day basis.
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A little note on airline management
Turret,
Don't run an airline like your local Mickey-Dos (McDonald's)...
the complexities of safety adherence, operational restrictions, and diversity of options in which to expand productivity-increasing ideas propel this industry beyond where most commercial enterprises run dead in their tracks...
understand in this way your employees are equally one of your greatest assets, and like GGV rightfully said, manipulating their situation and capabilities is not going to structure a free-market environment...
this is where the backlash of your actions is now resulting from...
lest we forget, people are 'dumb', but a group of persons is observant, intelligent, and cunning...
divide and conquer takes on a new twist you might say...
Don't run an airline like your local Mickey-Dos (McDonald's)...
the complexities of safety adherence, operational restrictions, and diversity of options in which to expand productivity-increasing ideas propel this industry beyond where most commercial enterprises run dead in their tracks...
understand in this way your employees are equally one of your greatest assets, and like GGV rightfully said, manipulating their situation and capabilities is not going to structure a free-market environment...
this is where the backlash of your actions is now resulting from...
lest we forget, people are 'dumb', but a group of persons is observant, intelligent, and cunning...
divide and conquer takes on a new twist you might say...
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Salmonella
this is where the backlash of your actions is now resulting from...
200 registered members out of a pilot corps of 1000 and most of them, like myself, registered in order to read the lie of the land and not the least bit interested in their fumbling attempts at relevance? Oh dear.....
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repaweb
please Turret, stop this number spinning!
200++ out of 700, almost 1/3 already, and only after 3 months of operation (not my place to give away exact numbers)...
Stop trying to include those youre only just interviewing for FO positions and be realistic for once...
that already so many have signed up should be a sure-fire sign theyre looking for answers elsewhere besides the lies, propoganda, and spin you and your fellow management keep dishing them...
and please, drop the facade, you only dream of open access to the full site...
Oh, lest we forget, the poodle recently won Buzz pilot's their TUPE court case...
so far REPA 2, Ryanair 0
repaweb.org - the truth, whole truth, nothing but the truth
.
200++ out of 700, almost 1/3 already, and only after 3 months of operation (not my place to give away exact numbers)...
Stop trying to include those youre only just interviewing for FO positions and be realistic for once...
that already so many have signed up should be a sure-fire sign theyre looking for answers elsewhere besides the lies, propoganda, and spin you and your fellow management keep dishing them...
and please, drop the facade, you only dream of open access to the full site...
Oh, lest we forget, the poodle recently won Buzz pilot's their TUPE court case...
so far REPA 2, Ryanair 0
repaweb.org - the truth, whole truth, nothing but the truth
.
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Curried Chicken
that already so many have signed up should be a sure-fire sign theyre looking for answers elsewhere
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My god, you are a bitter and scared little man.
You doth protest too much methinks, a sure sign REPA has put the fear of god (or MOL) into you. Looks like when the Mullingar Mucker goes looking for a scapegoat you know whose head is in the chopping block.
You doth protest too much methinks, a sure sign REPA has put the fear of god (or MOL) into you. Looks like when the Mullingar Mucker goes looking for a scapegoat you know whose head is in the chopping block.
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The usual dance
Yep Maximus, the usual tripe from Ozi, name calling, number spinning and thinly veiled threats.
Sad old man, really though, not sure if you qualify for "man" as you still have not apologised for your comments, and the way you name call like a 10 year old, really mate, grow up.
Sad old man, really though, not sure if you qualify for "man" as you still have not apologised for your comments, and the way you name call like a 10 year old, really mate, grow up.
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Nose bleed.
and the way you name call like a 10 year old, really mate, grow up.
And now to drag our little discussion back on topic, it is with sadness that I note that the sharks are circling in ever decreasing circles at EUjet, which of course means that it will take Planestation Group PLC down the drain with it. A sadness compounded by the fact that many of EUjet's pilots moved there from another failed airline, Jetmagic.
One can't help but note the delicious irony, though, that both companies had a certain former president of IFALPA involved in management roles. Talk about the kiss of death! Proof positive, albeit from an unexpected quarter, that pilot unions are hemlock to the airline business, in all sorts of ways!
Can't wait to see where the angel of airline death ends up next!
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tsk tsk Ozi
There you go again, name calling, can't really help yourself can you?
Lots of big words for a small man to use eh? Must be trying to prove something that all your false numbers and claims can't.
"it is with sadness that I note blah blah blah".....and you call me a hypocrite?
"one can't help note the delicious irony blah blah blah".......and you call me a hypocrite?
'Can't wait to see where the angel of airline death ends up next!'...said with glee.
As always, it reigns in your sad, pathetic, name calling posts.
Goodbye
Nosegear, to you mate.
Lots of big words for a small man to use eh? Must be trying to prove something that all your false numbers and claims can't.
"it is with sadness that I note blah blah blah".....and you call me a hypocrite?
"one can't help note the delicious irony blah blah blah".......and you call me a hypocrite?
'Can't wait to see where the angel of airline death ends up next!'...said with glee.
As always, it reigns in your sad, pathetic, name calling posts.
Goodbye
Nosegear, to you mate.
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Angel of Airline Death?
Oh no! EUJet going down the drain?
better quickly write up another memo and post it on crewdock to warn your crews!
your use of language has no place alongside your apathy!
And to say the sharks are circling closer...how are those recruitment leaflets coming along then?
Sure theyve heard enough after opting out of joining up when magic went bust!
Unions being the hemlock of this industry! My word you are a comedian...
The fine balance between management and employees needs to be established in any organisation, and to dismiss this obvious requirement in one swooping accusation pointedly underlines an obvious disposition in which Ryanair places itself...
ANY sort of repressenation for Pilots is not welcome...
Albeit Unions, Employee Repressentative Committees, or even "Base Committees"...
Airlines have 'bled to death' by pilot walk-outs... I can tell you where the angel will be visiting next if the current trends continue without appropriate interference...and it aint Easyjet!
better quickly write up another memo and post it on crewdock to warn your crews!
your use of language has no place alongside your apathy!
And to say the sharks are circling closer...how are those recruitment leaflets coming along then?
Sure theyve heard enough after opting out of joining up when magic went bust!
Unions being the hemlock of this industry! My word you are a comedian...
The fine balance between management and employees needs to be established in any organisation, and to dismiss this obvious requirement in one swooping accusation pointedly underlines an obvious disposition in which Ryanair places itself...
ANY sort of repressenation for Pilots is not welcome...
Albeit Unions, Employee Repressentative Committees, or even "Base Committees"...
Airlines have 'bled to death' by pilot walk-outs... I can tell you where the angel will be visiting next if the current trends continue without appropriate interference...and it aint Easyjet!
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Oh M.s Turret,
Not surprised you're not a Mrs. with a nasty attitude like yours.
I would love to know where you get your patently ridiculous statements about unions being Hemlock.
A union helps companies as well as crews. In the first instance you have a direct point of contact, want to change something? Talk to everyone at the same time through one contact.
Need help in a certain area, well blow me down if you are unsure about something there are professionals there that can help out, all you have to do is ask.
With a company like Ryanair, unfortunately it seems that the concept of working with your employees rather than against them hasn't found root.
Ryanair would dearly love to become as successful as Air Southwest and you know what, they treat their employees a hell of a lot better than you do.
I don't expect you would have the wit or intelligence to even understand the simple concepts that make companies such as Diageo or Air Southwest so successful. Ryanair has all the makings of a short term success, but a long term failure. I wonder if it will still be around in 50 years time? Probably not.
Not surprised you're not a Mrs. with a nasty attitude like yours.
I would love to know where you get your patently ridiculous statements about unions being Hemlock.
A union helps companies as well as crews. In the first instance you have a direct point of contact, want to change something? Talk to everyone at the same time through one contact.
Need help in a certain area, well blow me down if you are unsure about something there are professionals there that can help out, all you have to do is ask.
With a company like Ryanair, unfortunately it seems that the concept of working with your employees rather than against them hasn't found root.
Ryanair would dearly love to become as successful as Air Southwest and you know what, they treat their employees a hell of a lot better than you do.
I don't expect you would have the wit or intelligence to even understand the simple concepts that make companies such as Diageo or Air Southwest so successful. Ryanair has all the makings of a short term success, but a long term failure. I wonder if it will still be around in 50 years time? Probably not.
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Some very very simple questions to Ms Turret:
What is the most unionised airline in the USA?
What is the most profitable airline in the USA?
Hint, Ozzie: its the same company.
Dont expect an anwser from him here of course, it rather reduces his argument to nothing in one fell swoop.
Further useful info, SWA are 83% unionised, as proudly claimed on their own website. Speaks for itself really.
What is the most unionised airline in the USA?
What is the most profitable airline in the USA?
Hint, Ozzie: its the same company.
Dont expect an anwser from him here of course, it rather reduces his argument to nothing in one fell swoop.
Further useful info, SWA are 83% unionised, as proudly claimed on their own website. Speaks for itself really.
