British Airways DEP Selection - THE lowdown Part 1
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I'm not sure how the IAG and BMI deal will affect future recruitment?
Consider that, Yes IAG are getting a load of pilots with BMI, but they are also getting a load of slots, and a load of aircraft, all of which will require crews, so the net crew / airframe / slot ratios won't change very much. In fact if anything they will change for the positive, as BMI shorthaul is a basket case and hemorrhages money, so IAG are more likely (and have allready stated their intent) to use some of the slots for longhaul- which is more crew intensive.
Just my tuppenceworth, but thats the way I read it.
Personally I think its positive news all round, as the alternative for BMI is almost certainly insolvency / mass redundancy and a slot auction, and given our hopeless government's stance on aviation this is the only way that BA / IAG are going to see any expansion within the UK.
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If the brand survives as Walsh says here, this also suggests the introduction of a B-scale at least for some workforces...?
British Airways Beats Virgin to Heathrow Slots- Bloomberg
British Airways Beats Virgin to Heathrow Slots- Bloomberg
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Redundancies would be awful as I have friends in bmi. Integration of the seniority list however poses a threat to new joiners and those past our prime. It could mean career FO's or upgrades onto a B scale.
Last edited by Kempus; 22nd Dec 2011 at 21:33. Reason: Grammar
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I guess the BMI pilots should consider themselves pretty lucky - especially the wannabe BA pilots. It will be interesting to hear the integration plans.
I've been traveling and out of the loop lately - is there any news on what IAG/BA will need to give up (slots, etc.) to Virgin to reduce the antitrust concerns?
I've been traveling and out of the loop lately - is there any news on what IAG/BA will need to give up (slots, etc.) to Virgin to reduce the antitrust concerns?
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Are BA actually recruiting experienced f/os? It says on the website they are with DEP scheme, then you click on that and its a road to nowhere. So is it just Mil pilots and FPP right now?
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Skyway
Correct. DEP recruitment not open at the moment. There is a reasonable backlog to work through, coupled with a possible review of the 2012 flying programme with regard to economic uncertainty, and yes, the BMI thing will almost certainly have an effect, but not a significant one.
I wouldn't expect it to open for another 3-6 months. Rgds KP
Correct. DEP recruitment not open at the moment. There is a reasonable backlog to work through, coupled with a possible review of the 2012 flying programme with regard to economic uncertainty, and yes, the BMI thing will almost certainly have an effect, but not a significant one.
I wouldn't expect it to open for another 3-6 months. Rgds KP
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The article alludes to a iag plan to turn the business around in 2-3 yrs. would this suggest maintaining a separate aoc with separate workforces? Perhaps either putting off or avoiding merger issues?
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I'm not sure how the IAG and BMI deal will affect future recruitment? I have no idea, but I'd hazard a guess that in the medium / term it would be a very positive effect.
If the bmi pilots are not integrated, my guess is it would affect future recruitment as it stands a lot - if IAG suceed in setting up a parallel LHR workforce to BA pilots, then there would be no recruitment into "BA" as we know it. All recruits go into the "new" outfit, essentially as with our CC now (Mixed Fleet) and IB Express pilots.
If bmi pilots are integrated, then recruitment will depend on numbers. Bear in mind we may have bmibaby pilots acquired by BA (which BA do not want), or some deal done with LH over bmibaby's employees. BA/LH are hardly going to pay redundancy (or even be allowed to?) whilst simultaneously recruiting.
For those in the Hold Pool I would keep a very close eye on it, and the implications. Depending on the way things go, and the "pick up" rate from the pool, possibilities are:
1. You might end up offered a job in "BA Express", the bmi part.
2. You might end up in "BA", but at the very bottom of a list that is then closed. Not a great place to be in a very seniority driven environment (v command / fleet / bidding prospects).
3. You might think you have one thing, but turn up on day 1 and get offered / find you have another.
Watch, think and move carefully
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Did the pilots who have joined since the IAG merger sign contracts saying they would be working for the BA brand? Or was is an IAG contract?
I understand that the contract states a base as LHR, and so by implication this means BA, but that is not very solid. They could very easily send us off to Madrid with no contractual restriction.
Any info is greatly appreciated. Don't want to leave my current job to work for anything other than BA proper.
I understand that the contract states a base as LHR, and so by implication this means BA, but that is not very solid. They could very easily send us off to Madrid with no contractual restriction.
Any info is greatly appreciated. Don't want to leave my current job to work for anything other than BA proper.
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Don't want to leave my current job to work for anything other than BA proper
What do you see as "BA proper" ? What do you see "BA" as (legally)? And as an aside, what do you see as the "benefit(s)" of working for "BA proper" (given the stagnated seniority system, BLRs, 15+yrs to command maybe more, general rundown even extinction of "legacy" carriers elsewhere, run from a central organisation overseeing the destruction of IB T&Cs - where next?).
Not suggesting I know the answers, just intrigued
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It depends on whether the bmi pilots how/are "integrated" (or not) with the BA pilots. An issue not determined, and being worked on by the relevant parties.
If the bmi pilots are not integrated, my guess is it would affect future recruitment as it stands a lot - if IAG suceed in setting up a parallel LHR workforce to BA pilots, then there would be no recruitment into "BA" as we know it. All recruits go into the "new" outfit, essentially as with our CC now (Mixed Fleet) and IB Express pilots.
If bmi pilots are integrated, then recruitment will depend on numbers. Bear in mind we may have bmibaby pilots acquired by BA (which BA do not want), or some deal done with LH over bmibaby's employees. BA/LH are hardly going to pay redundancy (or even be allowed to?) whilst simultaneously recruiting.
For those in the Hold Pool I would keep a very close eye on it, and the implications. Depending on the way things go, and the "pick up" rate from the pool, possibilities are:
1. You might end up offered a job in "BA Express", the bmi part.
2. You might end up in "BA", but at the very bottom of a list that is then closed. Not a great place to be in a very seniority driven environment (v command / fleet / bidding prospects).
3. You might think you have one thing, but turn up on day 1 and get offered / find you have another.
Watch, think and move carefully
If the bmi pilots are not integrated, my guess is it would affect future recruitment as it stands a lot - if IAG suceed in setting up a parallel LHR workforce to BA pilots, then there would be no recruitment into "BA" as we know it. All recruits go into the "new" outfit, essentially as with our CC now (Mixed Fleet) and IB Express pilots.
If bmi pilots are integrated, then recruitment will depend on numbers. Bear in mind we may have bmibaby pilots acquired by BA (which BA do not want), or some deal done with LH over bmibaby's employees. BA/LH are hardly going to pay redundancy (or even be allowed to?) whilst simultaneously recruiting.
For those in the Hold Pool I would keep a very close eye on it, and the implications. Depending on the way things go, and the "pick up" rate from the pool, possibilities are:
1. You might end up offered a job in "BA Express", the bmi part.
2. You might end up in "BA", but at the very bottom of a list that is then closed. Not a great place to be in a very seniority driven environment (v command / fleet / bidding prospects).
3. You might think you have one thing, but turn up on day 1 and get offered / find you have another.
Watch, think and move carefully
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I see BA proper as working on the Ts and Cs currently enjoyed, albeit with the potential future pitfalls. I would rather start from a position of relative strength, rather than join IAG on a reduced contract right from the very start.
I understand your points, but I still see the overall package as stronger than anywhere else, in my opinion. The other options that you suggest may appear within IAG are not appealing whatsoever, and I will be staying with my current company if that is what is offered to me.
I understand your points, but I still see the overall package as stronger than anywhere else, in my opinion. The other options that you suggest may appear within IAG are not appealing whatsoever, and I will be staying with my current company if that is what is offered to me.
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"British Airways PLC Contract Of Employment (DEP)" and then later the name Company= British Airways PLC and that is after the merger was made public.
The way I read it, unless the merger falls under the BA Brand (not IAG) on that contract you cannot be forced to work for anyone else unless its merged under the BA AOC.
I hope that helps answer your question a little FLR.
The way I read it, unless the merger falls under the BA Brand (not IAG) on that contract you cannot be forced to work for anyone else unless its merged under the BA AOC.
I hope that helps answer your question a little FLR.
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The BMI integration would be interesting, particularly regarding BMI baby pilots. Given that BA have just made a significant number of Open Skies pilots redundant (were offered selection to BA mainline....most failed) BA would be wide open legaly to be taken to the cleaners!
I cannot see BA integrating BMI pilots into mainline without selection, it opens up too many cans of worms. I do see them creating a short haul division through BMI .....perhaps name it BEA?
ill get my coat!
I cannot see BA integrating BMI pilots into mainline without selection, it opens up too many cans of worms. I do see them creating a short haul division through BMI .....perhaps name it BEA?
ill get my coat!
I cannot see BA integrating BMI pilots into mainline without selection,
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Would hate to be a Balpa rep just now but if they did merge the pilots it would have to be bmi's most senior under ba's then bmi's second most senior under ba's and so on.
Selection wouldn't be an option and if you think the bmi guys will allow balpa to let it happen well good luck. It's always been nicknamed British Airways Line Pilots Association and this will be the true test of the union to wether they are as biased as many pilots from other airlines think.
I'm I'm the pool, Im not holding out much hope. 330 pilots with grandfather rights means I would prob never see a command. Last bmi guys started in May '11.
"BA Express" would be the best outcome for those already in the company. They did it with the cabin crew with mixed fleet to save money. It's no longer the glory days and share holders will prevail!
Harsh but true and if I was CEO....
Selection wouldn't be an option and if you think the bmi guys will allow balpa to let it happen well good luck. It's always been nicknamed British Airways Line Pilots Association and this will be the true test of the union to wether they are as biased as many pilots from other airlines think.
I'm I'm the pool, Im not holding out much hope. 330 pilots with grandfather rights means I would prob never see a command. Last bmi guys started in May '11.
"BA Express" would be the best outcome for those already in the company. They did it with the cabin crew with mixed fleet to save money. It's no longer the glory days and share holders will prevail!
Harsh but true and if I was CEO....