Swimming In The BA Pool?
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zzz,
Many thanks; wasnt after a specific date just wanted to know when you start accruing it ?
Reason is i may have some time off before i start, just deciding if the mrs should use her holiday entitilement if i'm not getting much later in the year....
Many thanks; wasnt after a specific date just wanted to know when you start accruing it ?
Reason is i may have some time off before i start, just deciding if the mrs should use her holiday entitilement if i'm not getting much later in the year....
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Can anyone give a succint precis of how the lhr shorthaul bidline system works? Are there any good links on the web on how it works and why does LGW have a different system - i.e. not the actual bidlines but the whole system processing?
Join Date: Apr 1999
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Shorthaul bidline works vaguely like the following (numbers are just guesswork and not precise):
Say you have 250 FOs on a fleet. Pre Ops produce 200 complete rosters ( trip lines), 20 reserve lines (month of standby) and 30 are whats called 'blind lines' with no work on them. The lines are all published at stage 1 and you bid for them in seniority. The goal is to achieve a certain level of work called CAP. Some lines are at CAP, some slightly above, others slightly or much below CAP. Any pre-allocated duties, eg trips carrying in from previous months, sim checks,line checks, etc will take precendence over any conflicting trip and clash it off your line. All the clashed out trips drop to stage 2.
At stage 2 all the remaining trips are published and you bid for them in seniority order to pick up enough work to take you to CAP. If you go over CAP the credit goes into a personal bank. If you go under CAP the deficit is taken from your bank or if you have no bank they dock your pay (first 6 months you can have a bank overdraft whilst you build your bank up). If you want to work a bit less you can bid below CAP and take the financial hit. If you bid lower than CAP -15 you are 'wiped' and assigned a blind line. If you bid below CAP but above wiping level you can be assigned extra work under certain conditions.
If you don't have the seniority for a trip line or your don't bid you get a blind line. This is where the company build a line for you from all the trips left over after stage 2. You are credit protected, which means you are considered to have met CAP even if they actually roster you less work. Expect to work every weekend.
Reserve comes into play three months after your final check. Reserve is allocated in a points system and new entrants join with fleet average points. He who has least points is most vulnerable to reserve. Reserve will be a continuous block of 28 days with 7 days off (usually a block of 2 and a block of 5), with 21 days available for work. One airport standby, the rest is home standby with 2hrs notice to work, but usually much more. There is little predicatability, so don't plan on having a life during that period.
One other feature worth knowing about is 'Forced Draft'. This is basically compulsory overtime which is assigned in juniority order when the company have botchde their work coverage. Its lucrative but try telling that to the stack of people force drafted on Boxing Day and over New Year last year. If drafts about either take the cash or turn your phone off.
Say you have 250 FOs on a fleet. Pre Ops produce 200 complete rosters ( trip lines), 20 reserve lines (month of standby) and 30 are whats called 'blind lines' with no work on them. The lines are all published at stage 1 and you bid for them in seniority. The goal is to achieve a certain level of work called CAP. Some lines are at CAP, some slightly above, others slightly or much below CAP. Any pre-allocated duties, eg trips carrying in from previous months, sim checks,line checks, etc will take precendence over any conflicting trip and clash it off your line. All the clashed out trips drop to stage 2.
At stage 2 all the remaining trips are published and you bid for them in seniority order to pick up enough work to take you to CAP. If you go over CAP the credit goes into a personal bank. If you go under CAP the deficit is taken from your bank or if you have no bank they dock your pay (first 6 months you can have a bank overdraft whilst you build your bank up). If you want to work a bit less you can bid below CAP and take the financial hit. If you bid lower than CAP -15 you are 'wiped' and assigned a blind line. If you bid below CAP but above wiping level you can be assigned extra work under certain conditions.
If you don't have the seniority for a trip line or your don't bid you get a blind line. This is where the company build a line for you from all the trips left over after stage 2. You are credit protected, which means you are considered to have met CAP even if they actually roster you less work. Expect to work every weekend.
Reserve comes into play three months after your final check. Reserve is allocated in a points system and new entrants join with fleet average points. He who has least points is most vulnerable to reserve. Reserve will be a continuous block of 28 days with 7 days off (usually a block of 2 and a block of 5), with 21 days available for work. One airport standby, the rest is home standby with 2hrs notice to work, but usually much more. There is little predicatability, so don't plan on having a life during that period.
One other feature worth knowing about is 'Forced Draft'. This is basically compulsory overtime which is assigned in juniority order when the company have botchde their work coverage. Its lucrative but try telling that to the stack of people force drafted on Boxing Day and over New Year last year. If drafts about either take the cash or turn your phone off.
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You an approach a flight manager or fleet support manager and ask and they may protect you with no credit. However it is at their discretion so I wouldn't hold your breath. You may get lucky but bear in mind once you've asked and its refused you've had it.
It is not seniority related and decided upon on each case.
Leave isn't on seniority either but leave points accumulated. School holidays get low points non popular time high. The higher your leave points on a status list the higher your leave choice. Not sure if you join with 0 or average (a la reserve).
NN
It is not seniority related and decided upon on each case.
Leave isn't on seniority either but leave points accumulated. School holidays get low points non popular time high. The higher your leave points on a status list the higher your leave choice. Not sure if you join with 0 or average (a la reserve).
NN
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I am assuming then that you can't ask for too many days off as VIP? Seems a randomn way of getting them approved in a company with such a mania for systems and processes?
How did the LHR and LGW volve so differently?
How did the LHR and LGW volve so differently?
Join Date: Jan 2001
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AH64...
There is no VIP "system" in BA... As a new entrant, plan on being rostered every weekend outside leave, and you won't go far wrong.
What n_n is referring to is a system whereby for strong compassionate reasons you may be "let" off a duty you were rostered for. Strong reasons are just that. NB to BA, something as trivial as your own wedding day should be arranged to coincide with your leave etc.
Of course, there are all sorts of namby pamby euro / New labour laws which can get you time off - Parental Leave, Dependant's days etc. which they cannot deny.
In summary:
no - and something like that would not be regarded as anything like strong enough to use the system n_n refers to...
HTH
NoD
There is no VIP "system" in BA... As a new entrant, plan on being rostered every weekend outside leave, and you won't go far wrong.
What n_n is referring to is a system whereby for strong compassionate reasons you may be "let" off a duty you were rostered for. Strong reasons are just that. NB to BA, something as trivial as your own wedding day should be arranged to coincide with your leave etc.
Of course, there are all sorts of namby pamby euro / New labour laws which can get you time off - Parental Leave, Dependant's days etc. which they cannot deny.
In summary:
Ta for that - is there any sort of VIP system for booking specific dates off - e.g. wedding anniversary?
HTH
NoD
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What n_n is referring to is a system whereby for strong compassionate reasons you may be "let" off a duty
Believ t when I see it though.
Leave
Winter/summer spilt evenly.
We have leave wrap days and duty free weeks.
Wraps are three days and go at the end or beginning of your leave block
so
7 day block +3 wraps
8 day block +3 wraps
or 15 day block +6 wraps
7 days Duty free
in both summer and winter.
Wraps can be lost under certain circumstances and you can work in wraps and DFW if you wish.
Leave you can't.
NN
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I would add that wraps are not extra days off, they're just days you can choose not to be allocated work. If you don't work them you'll have to find the credit somewhere else, which means a bank withdrawal or working like a dog for the rest of the month.
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The contract that BA sent to me refers to the "Pilot Agreement".
I presume all questions about leave, pay etc are answered in this document.
Does each base have its own Pilot Agreement?
Where does one access this document?
Is it available electronically?
Thanks in advance,
T29.
I presume all questions about leave, pay etc are answered in this document.
Does each base have its own Pilot Agreement?
Where does one access this document?
Is it available electronically?
Thanks in advance,
T29.
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1. Err, yes I think.
2. Only two bases. LHR and LGW. Think the agreement is the same, but the scheduling rules need to be read in conjunction, with LHR on Bidline and LGW on Carmen.
3. BA ought to provide you with a copy, but failing that try BALPA.
4. Yes, but probably only from BALPA.
2. Only two bases. LHR and LGW. Think the agreement is the same, but the scheduling rules need to be read in conjunction, with LHR on Bidline and LGW on Carmen.
3. BA ought to provide you with a copy, but failing that try BALPA.
4. Yes, but probably only from BALPA.
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Mate of mine wanted the same thing - access to the t's and c's and BA said he could go to LHR and view it under supervision. Can;t work out why they do not just send it like any other company. Surely contracts are considered slightly untenable if the employee has not been given sight of all the t's and c's?
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So if you were at the age that BA still offered you a postion but there was virtually no chance of a command, either short or long haul. Then surely it would be in your interest to hold out for say that 747-400 postion and enjoy what left there is of your career in the RHS, albeit going to all those places you have always wanted to.
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AH64...
The Ts and Cs are strange in BA, because in the majority, they are decided by the "agreement" i.e. between BA and BALPA.
The effect is that BA could quote you a starting salary of £40K, and 2 weeks after you joined, you salary is cut to £20K. All legit, if in accordance with BALPA. Naturally, only a theoretical situation...
Not quite sure where this sits in law, but presumably OK...
NoD
The Ts and Cs are strange in BA, because in the majority, they are decided by the "agreement" i.e. between BA and BALPA.
The effect is that BA could quote you a starting salary of £40K, and 2 weeks after you joined, you salary is cut to £20K. All legit, if in accordance with BALPA. Naturally, only a theoretical situation...
Not quite sure where this sits in law, but presumably OK...
NoD
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That is a bit strange - what happens for those folks not in BALPA but in BA. Surely they could claim their contracts being negotiated by people without their interests at heart?
My point previously was that in theory they could also turn around and say to you that actually you only have one day off a year holiday and cos you have signed the contract you would be stuck!
My point previously was that in theory they could also turn around and say to you that actually you only have one day off a year holiday and cos you have signed the contract you would be stuck!
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AH 64...
That's why your contract says Ts & Cs are determined by the "Pilots' Agreement" i.e. negotiated by BALPA. If you don't like the concept, don't join BA...
Yes - they could negotiate you down to 1 day a holiday... However, there's probably a Euro law against that
That's why your contract says Ts & Cs are determined by the "Pilots' Agreement" i.e. negotiated by BALPA. If you don't like the concept, don't join BA...
Yes - they could negotiate you down to 1 day a holiday... However, there's probably a Euro law against that
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Its not ideal.
Over 3000 pilots pay their 1% to BALPA and enjoy (for the most part) the favourible T+C's negotiated and policed by them.
The other ***** get it all for free minus discipliniary/legal support.
NN
erm Mr Moderator. Whats wrong with the word scabs? Because that's what freeloading non-members are.
Over 3000 pilots pay their 1% to BALPA and enjoy (for the most part) the favourible T+C's negotiated and policed by them.
The other ***** get it all for free minus discipliniary/legal support.
NN
erm Mr Moderator. Whats wrong with the word scabs? Because that's what freeloading non-members are.
Last edited by normal_nigel; 2nd Dec 2004 at 12:01.
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Just under. Oliver Cromwell, or whatever he calls himself this week, has been crowing on the corporate brainwashing day (OOF) that we have just under the 3000 mark but flying substantially the same size flying program as when we had a couple of hundred more.