Virgin Atlantic Questions - the Master Thread! (Merged)
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Virgin Job Security
Currently a LHS A320 driver for a well-respected UK outfit....Fancying a change to a different lifestyle and don't fancy BA.
After the downturn post 9/11 Virgin dropped a lot of pilots and my fear is that if I was to jump ship now are Virgin in a stronger position to withstand a downturn and also the ever increasing fuel prices and also with the A380 delays can they sustain their "impressive" expansion plans ?
After the downturn post 9/11 Virgin dropped a lot of pilots and my fear is that if I was to jump ship now are Virgin in a stronger position to withstand a downturn and also the ever increasing fuel prices and also with the A380 delays can they sustain their "impressive" expansion plans ?
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Just my thoughts but...
Virgin seems to be in a different position now, what I mean by that is that post 9/11 most of its business was towards America (90% or so) now they have concentrated on developing routes on another market too (S.A. and Asia, etc) so they are not solely relying on American routes...
Virgin seems to be in a different position now, what I mean by that is that post 9/11 most of its business was towards America (90% or so) now they have concentrated on developing routes on another market too (S.A. and Asia, etc) so they are not solely relying on American routes...
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If you do jump ship better to do it sooner rather than later because if there is a downturn then at least there will be more people beneath you on the seniority list!
There's as much, if not more job security as VS than most airlines at present.
There's as much, if not more job security as VS than most airlines at present.
And that's just what I thought when I joined VS in 2001. Sept 11 was a suprise, but not as much as a suprise at how ready VS was to ditch a huge number of the workforce.
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September 11 was a suprise Dan, as was being laid off within 6 weeks, however they did ask everyone back and many did return, unless they had found greener pastures elsewhere as you did.
The biggest threat to job security is the rocketing oil price, and that affects all airlines in the medium term, hedging only covers a fixed period although some clever sods stand to make money on it.
The airline has diversified its route structure in the years since 2001 with no new US routes although some frequencies have been upped. I think its also fair to say that the company has changed quite a bit, 2001 was the catalyst but there were structural issues prior to that date which have since been sorted out. Caution is the name of the game rather than new routes just for the fun of it. Virgin has been around for over 20 years now, it survived two Gulf wars, SARS, 9/11 and various downturns not to mention other carriers attempts to force it out of business in the early days. The company is also making money. If VS were to fold at this stage I suspect it would be part of a general catastrophe which would take many other carriers with it.
The expansion has been stretched out over a longer timescale than initially envisioned but recruitment seems to be continuing at a steady pace, mostly for the A340 but as SFO's from the 744 start to move over to the Airbus for command there could well be more Boeing recruitment to cover the empty RHS slots.
As has been stated before, the sooner you join, the sooner you will have a cushion of people below you. There are no certainties in life but I'm not feeling terribly worried for my job at the moment. Hope this helps.
Over to you Scroggs.....
The biggest threat to job security is the rocketing oil price, and that affects all airlines in the medium term, hedging only covers a fixed period although some clever sods stand to make money on it.
The airline has diversified its route structure in the years since 2001 with no new US routes although some frequencies have been upped. I think its also fair to say that the company has changed quite a bit, 2001 was the catalyst but there were structural issues prior to that date which have since been sorted out. Caution is the name of the game rather than new routes just for the fun of it. Virgin has been around for over 20 years now, it survived two Gulf wars, SARS, 9/11 and various downturns not to mention other carriers attempts to force it out of business in the early days. The company is also making money. If VS were to fold at this stage I suspect it would be part of a general catastrophe which would take many other carriers with it.
The expansion has been stretched out over a longer timescale than initially envisioned but recruitment seems to be continuing at a steady pace, mostly for the A340 but as SFO's from the 744 start to move over to the Airbus for command there could well be more Boeing recruitment to cover the empty RHS slots.
As has been stated before, the sooner you join, the sooner you will have a cushion of people below you. There are no certainties in life but I'm not feeling terribly worried for my job at the moment. Hope this helps.
Over to you Scroggs.....
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After 9/11, Virgin decided to ditch 25% of capacity, that being their guess as to how much the market would decline in the short term as a direct result of the WTC attack. Spookily enough, most majors with heavy exposure to the North Atlantic/US market came to a roughly similar conclusion. No other European carrier had such a large bias towards the US as Virgin did, and therefore Virgin was particularly exposed to how that market reacted.
To achieve that 25% reduction, VS axed the B747 Classic fleet. Of course, this was the only aircraft VS flew with Flight Engineers, so the redundancy list at one point approached 40% of the flight deck staff, as all the FEs were to go!
As history and hindsight now shows, even with the extended effects of SARS shortly after 9/11, 25% was an over-estimate of the effect on Virgin's market (though it was considerably more than that on some routes), and the job losses never got anywhere near the 25% proposed - except for the dear old FEs. Even some of them got a reprieve, as two Classics were retained for the MAN-MCO task.
That's the history lesson. The most salient factors in job security at VS are firstly that the airline is far less exposed to any one market than it was in 2001, and secondly that BALPA rapidly became a significant strength in the workforce, ensuring (after a shaky start) that the correct principles of equity, seniority and process became enshrined in the company's redundancy policies.
No airline is secure, and airlines funded by private equity are less secure than those with government backing, but VS is in good shape these days and is as likely as any middle-sized airline to be here in another 22 years.
To achieve that 25% reduction, VS axed the B747 Classic fleet. Of course, this was the only aircraft VS flew with Flight Engineers, so the redundancy list at one point approached 40% of the flight deck staff, as all the FEs were to go!
As history and hindsight now shows, even with the extended effects of SARS shortly after 9/11, 25% was an over-estimate of the effect on Virgin's market (though it was considerably more than that on some routes), and the job losses never got anywhere near the 25% proposed - except for the dear old FEs. Even some of them got a reprieve, as two Classics were retained for the MAN-MCO task.
That's the history lesson. The most salient factors in job security at VS are firstly that the airline is far less exposed to any one market than it was in 2001, and secondly that BALPA rapidly became a significant strength in the workforce, ensuring (after a shaky start) that the correct principles of equity, seniority and process became enshrined in the company's redundancy policies.
No airline is secure, and airlines funded by private equity are less secure than those with government backing, but VS is in good shape these days and is as likely as any middle-sized airline to be here in another 22 years.
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The guys getting commands now have been with VS 7 to 8 years. The guys joining the company now will be nowhere near command when the current expansion ends - note the emphasis on current expansion, who knows what will happen in the future.
As to job security - as has been pointed out, VS has diversified its route structure quite a bit since 9/11, but I think that most of the profits still come from the US routes - though no doubt that will change with time as the new routes bed in. It's also been pointed out, by that fine scribe Scroggs, that VS is a private carrier and private carriers will never be as secure as state carriers. We're in good shape at the moment, and we're no longer the new kids on the block trying to find our feet, but if a general catastrophe hits aviation (maybe Bird Flu??) then we're not going to be immune. If job security is your overriding concern, then I think BA is a better bet.
Having said all that, this a good place to work - not perfect by any means, but the best job I've ever had. Just don't tell management I said that..
As to job security - as has been pointed out, VS has diversified its route structure quite a bit since 9/11, but I think that most of the profits still come from the US routes - though no doubt that will change with time as the new routes bed in. It's also been pointed out, by that fine scribe Scroggs, that VS is a private carrier and private carriers will never be as secure as state carriers. We're in good shape at the moment, and we're no longer the new kids on the block trying to find our feet, but if a general catastrophe hits aviation (maybe Bird Flu??) then we're not going to be immune. If job security is your overriding concern, then I think BA is a better bet.
Having said all that, this a good place to work - not perfect by any means, but the best job I've ever had. Just don't tell management I said that..
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I'm not sure exactly what NB had in mind when he said that expansion plans had been stretched over a longer timescale. The airline seems to be on track to achieve the planned doubling in its 2002 size by 2012 or thereabouts, and I've heard nothing to suggest that that plan has changed. The A380 entry into service is delayed (probably to 2009), but the extra delay over and above Virgin's 2-year order deferral of two years ago is all down to Airbus.
Command time has been covered before, and it's a very imprecise science. It depends almost entirely on expansion at present, though retirements will become of proportionally greater relevance before too long. As tired says, 8 years is the going rate just now. For guys joining in 2006, my best guess is that they'll wait 10-12 years, but there's no way of knowing how accurate that is - so don't sue me if it takes 20!
Command time has been covered before, and it's a very imprecise science. It depends almost entirely on expansion at present, though retirements will become of proportionally greater relevance before too long. As tired says, 8 years is the going rate just now. For guys joining in 2006, my best guess is that they'll wait 10-12 years, but there's no way of knowing how accurate that is - so don't sue me if it takes 20!
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Scroggs, just regurgitating part of the discussion I had a few weeks ago on the way back from BGI. Maybe I misunderstood but I got the impression that the original plan was to double in size (or was it capacity) by 2010 and that the oil price increase, which was not forseen in 2002, had led to a small brake application. Whether this includes the delay to the 380 I'm not sure, the rest of the 340 order seems to be progressing on schedule. Being a 744 bod I'm not really well up on the commings and goings on the bus so I reckon you know a lot more! I have also had a spot of leave during which the entire scenario will have changed at least twice.
I wonder if the expansion includes our budding space program?
nb
I wonder if the expansion includes our budding space program?
nb
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Virgin age limits!!
I know this post is not in keeping with the previous post, I just didnt want to start a new thread, when the aim of my enquiry is mainly to do with Virgin!
How old are the guys and girls being hired by Virgin? I have read on here that you need a minimum of 4000hrs of which the majority needs to be jet time, but have no idea whether age is also an issue?
The reason I ask is im 27 in a couple of weeks, im half way through my atpl ground school and have realised that by the time I find employment, build up 4000+ hrs i will be mid to late 30's? Is this too old?
How old are the guys and girls being hired by Virgin? I have read on here that you need a minimum of 4000hrs of which the majority needs to be jet time, but have no idea whether age is also an issue?
The reason I ask is im 27 in a couple of weeks, im half way through my atpl ground school and have realised that by the time I find employment, build up 4000+ hrs i will be mid to late 30's? Is this too old?
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Don't fret Hollywood. VS seem to hire folks ranging from mid twenties to late forties, perhaps older. If you're in your thirties when you apply you'll still be around the average age of new joiners from what i've seen.
Good luck with your exams.
Good luck with your exams.
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Too old for what? Retirement age is 60 - and soon to be 65. Why would a new joiner in their late 30s be considered too old? With 30+ years service ahead of you, what would you be too old for? The vast majority of new hires at VS are in their 30s, and a significant minority are over 40.
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Inevitably it will, though there is no glut of Virgin pilots approaching 60, let alone 65. There are some, but the numbers aren't that significant in the context of the overall seniority list. This (EU) legislation affects all UK airlines, so nowhere will be exempt its ramifications. The almost simultaneous ICAO legislation which effectively prohibits nations from preventing foreign carriers using commanders up to age 65 (for which see a number of topics in R&N) will mean that many more countries are likely to accept aircrew retirement at age 65, so Virgin is hardly unique!
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virgin recruitment
hi folks
just wondering where you can find real infos about the whole interview process - lots of useful infos about payment, roosters and other staff but unable to find things about recruitment
thanks for reply
just wondering where you can find real infos about the whole interview process - lots of useful infos about payment, roosters and other staff but unable to find things about recruitment
thanks for reply