BA or Virgin? Which is better?
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I would not recommend that anyone 'holds' out for a course at a later day for two reasons. Firstly requirements change especially in October this year as the new age legislation is coming into effect and I doubt much training will be going on over this period until numbers of pilots staying on after 55 is known. Secondly in British Airways seniority is key to everything that effects your working life. Between now and October you could find yourself 50 - 60 places lower down the list than you otherwise could of been. In the past when things were very stagnent this could easily translate into an extra 2-3 years for command, fleet change etc.. My advice for BA is get in as soon as possible on whichever fleet you will not lose anything by doing this, when I go to longhaul in 18 months time I will join above all of those who have joined direct into longhaul for the past 18 months because seniority is key. Only my thoughts, hope it all works out.
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seniority is key
If you want a career in a major airline, take the first job they offer you. Then try to blag yourself onto an earlier course. Even only one place higher is worth it!
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Nite Flyer,
No i dont believe what they told us depended on experience, as i have enough experience for the 777 too. Durng the interview lunch chat they joked about how 'mad' people were waiting for the 777. I know how you feel as the 777 is what i wanted. But i dont believe its an option anymore.
As the others have said dont hold out. Seniority is key. If they take you on 777 in Oct lets say and your on the bottom and they dont hire anyone externally for years, for the 777, you will remain at the bottom of seniority on the 777 fleet. Even though you've been flying it for longer, you will be junior to them as they have more company time. Just take what they give you!
No i dont believe what they told us depended on experience, as i have enough experience for the 777 too. Durng the interview lunch chat they joked about how 'mad' people were waiting for the 777. I know how you feel as the 777 is what i wanted. But i dont believe its an option anymore.
As the others have said dont hold out. Seniority is key. If they take you on 777 in Oct lets say and your on the bottom and they dont hire anyone externally for years, for the 777, you will remain at the bottom of seniority on the 777 fleet. Even though you've been flying it for longer, you will be junior to them as they have more company time. Just take what they give you!
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In joining BA the only people that you care about are the pilots on the seniority list BELOW YOU. Enough on that one.
Anyone holding out for the 777 I can see your point but a piece of advice. If you get offered the 757/767 jump on it like a fat kid on a big mac because its a great fleet to be on. Mixed fleet flying, great equipment and a wide range of destinations. Bidline+757/767 fleet=happy pilots from what I have seen.
Just my take but the key here is get in ASAP.
Anyone holding out for the 777 I can see your point but a piece of advice. If you get offered the 757/767 jump on it like a fat kid on a big mac because its a great fleet to be on. Mixed fleet flying, great equipment and a wide range of destinations. Bidline+757/767 fleet=happy pilots from what I have seen.
Just my take but the key here is get in ASAP.
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In joining BA the only people that you care about are the pilots on the seniority list BELOW YOU. Enough on that one.
Get in early..........by a fluke of the system a friend of mine joined 6 weeks before me and has had a 757/767 command for 2 years now. However, I probably won't get near it for several years
Plus, for those who think that being the best pilot (or brown nose) ever will get you an early command - it won't. Only one or two have ever broken the system and that's by becoming a manager.
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I was told that I can hold out for a 777 course in Oct, and thats what I've elected to do. Could it depend on your previous experience?
Your seniority number determines for your whole career your Seat, Fleet, Monthly Roster re Days Off / Destinations, Leave, liability to Forced Draft, (effectively) Pay, Staff Travel Rights, Standby Periods...
Given that in 2 months time the "turnover rate" is likely to reduce by ~90%, your seniority number i.e. Date of Joining will go from being of 100% importance to 150%
My P2 in the sim today was congratulated for a very good, but cautious "P1 Incapacitation" approach - he did his best to ensure everybody below my ~1650 Seniority # "moved up 1" 
NoD
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Completely agree with the previous sentiments. In my case, I did the 'done' thing and continued to work for my previous employer in order to complete my full notice term.
Actually my previous would have let me go early, but I thought I should complete my contract. BA dropped me off my first course and I started about 6 weeks later than originally planned......the result about 40 places further down the seniority list for life!
I actually ended up going to long haul straight away instead of the short haul offered on the earlier course date. Fantastic for my life style now etc but looking into the future, my career choices will always be behind those who started on the original date.
Also, for those who wish to commute, when the push comes to a shove, equal priority standby pax are given seats based on their date of joining.
Basically, we should have all joined at 18 years old!
Actually my previous would have let me go early, but I thought I should complete my contract. BA dropped me off my first course and I started about 6 weeks later than originally planned......the result about 40 places further down the seniority list for life!
I actually ended up going to long haul straight away instead of the short haul offered on the earlier course date. Fantastic for my life style now etc but looking into the future, my career choices will always be behind those who started on the original date.
Also, for those who wish to commute, when the push comes to a shove, equal priority standby pax are given seats based on their date of joining.
Basically, we should have all joined at 18 years old!
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Originally Posted by stansdead
coded messages
With regard to the VS holding pool, can I ask :
Are you Airbus A320/330 rated or B747 rated? Or are you waiting for a full type rating course?
With regard to the VS holding pool, can I ask :
Are you Airbus A320/330 rated or B747 rated? Or are you waiting for a full type rating course?
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Very interesting thread, very. 
Avoid BA. For all the above reasons. Avoid.
Jonsv and snooky : we all obviously work for the same company!
Im tired of people telling me how lucky I am to have my job. Its not a job, its a disaster that has torn my life apart.
Avoid BA. For all the above reasons. Avoid.
Jonsv and snooky : we all obviously work for the same company!
Im tired of people telling me how lucky I am to have my job. Its not a job, its a disaster that has torn my life apart.
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Life at BA
After a long absence from pprune in my boredom while downroute with my octogenerean crew I came across this thread and thought it was time to come out of the shadows and make my first posting on pprune.
I've been in BA for just over a year now, on the B777 and thought I'd add my views to some of those expressed here as regards life in Big Airways.
OK... well first the good points in my opinion. Job security has to be among the very best there is in the UK. The route network is superb and growing rapidly though with my seniority the same destinations (mainly east coast US) have a habit of repeating. Opportunity to do long and short haul in your career if thats what you want to do. Personally it seems to me that the majority of people on shorthaul Airbus are making the jump to longhaul as soon as they can due to working like dogs, 800hrs+ seems the norm for those guys. Everything is generally well organised, at least in terms of previous airline experience though of course the occassional cock up does occur. Bidline can be very good in terms of determining getting your days off when you want.
Downsides... time to command... current estimates for a long haul command range from 16-20+ years. Workload, at BA there is a system based on hitting a set number of hours and if you don't then you have pay deducted to cover the shortfall. Usually this requires you to fly around 85 hours a month or thereabouts. In order to achieve this target I've tended to do 5 trips a month, sometimes 6 which I can assure you is exhausting. 2 days off between trips is not uncommon though you can control this somewhat with bidding. If you are under 35 you will generally be the youngest person on the trip by a noticeable margin, which is fine though doesn't always make for the most vibrant exciting nightstops. By this I'm not meaning explicitly in terms of shacking up with crew but just even in terms of going out for drinks, food, days out etc... not always but mostly you'll find the crew have been there a thousand times before, too tired, can't be arsed etc to go do anything. What they do locked away in their rooms eating pot noodles I have no idea. It's not exactly a party fun vibrant airline though that is not to say that the people you work with aren't perfectly pleasant. Mostly the trips have just one night downroute though more routes are opening for 777.
Most people in the airline are friendly and helpful though I have met one or two people who seem to think that there are only 2 types of pilot those who work for BA and those that didn't get in. These people despite what you might hear are in the minority though is does really grate on me and make me cringe when I hear that sort of nonsense. Also had one CSD who could barely bring herself to speak to me as I had only 2 stripes which was pathetic but amusing in equal measures. As I say these incidents are very isolated but they do happen.
Pay after tax, pension etc for a new joiner is around £3500 per month. The company pay in 9% of your basic to your pension which is shockingly poor really when you compare to many in the charter world who will pay in 14-15% and fares even worse to the Virgin pension. Based on default contribution rates BALPA reakon after 30 years you'd retire on a pension around £25,000. Of course you can pay in more if you want though that will reduce your monthly net pay.
Overall I think it is a good company though the workload is exceptionally high in my opinion. Pay is average when you take the pension into account and the fact that you will be at least middle aged/old by the time you get a long haul command. The job is about as secure as you can get and despite it not being a particularly vibrant airline you can have some fun nights out etc downroute now and again.
Hope this helps, all just my opinion...
I've been in BA for just over a year now, on the B777 and thought I'd add my views to some of those expressed here as regards life in Big Airways.
OK... well first the good points in my opinion. Job security has to be among the very best there is in the UK. The route network is superb and growing rapidly though with my seniority the same destinations (mainly east coast US) have a habit of repeating. Opportunity to do long and short haul in your career if thats what you want to do. Personally it seems to me that the majority of people on shorthaul Airbus are making the jump to longhaul as soon as they can due to working like dogs, 800hrs+ seems the norm for those guys. Everything is generally well organised, at least in terms of previous airline experience though of course the occassional cock up does occur. Bidline can be very good in terms of determining getting your days off when you want.
Downsides... time to command... current estimates for a long haul command range from 16-20+ years. Workload, at BA there is a system based on hitting a set number of hours and if you don't then you have pay deducted to cover the shortfall. Usually this requires you to fly around 85 hours a month or thereabouts. In order to achieve this target I've tended to do 5 trips a month, sometimes 6 which I can assure you is exhausting. 2 days off between trips is not uncommon though you can control this somewhat with bidding. If you are under 35 you will generally be the youngest person on the trip by a noticeable margin, which is fine though doesn't always make for the most vibrant exciting nightstops. By this I'm not meaning explicitly in terms of shacking up with crew but just even in terms of going out for drinks, food, days out etc... not always but mostly you'll find the crew have been there a thousand times before, too tired, can't be arsed etc to go do anything. What they do locked away in their rooms eating pot noodles I have no idea. It's not exactly a party fun vibrant airline though that is not to say that the people you work with aren't perfectly pleasant. Mostly the trips have just one night downroute though more routes are opening for 777.
Most people in the airline are friendly and helpful though I have met one or two people who seem to think that there are only 2 types of pilot those who work for BA and those that didn't get in. These people despite what you might hear are in the minority though is does really grate on me and make me cringe when I hear that sort of nonsense. Also had one CSD who could barely bring herself to speak to me as I had only 2 stripes which was pathetic but amusing in equal measures. As I say these incidents are very isolated but they do happen.
Pay after tax, pension etc for a new joiner is around £3500 per month. The company pay in 9% of your basic to your pension which is shockingly poor really when you compare to many in the charter world who will pay in 14-15% and fares even worse to the Virgin pension. Based on default contribution rates BALPA reakon after 30 years you'd retire on a pension around £25,000. Of course you can pay in more if you want though that will reduce your monthly net pay.
Overall I think it is a good company though the workload is exceptionally high in my opinion. Pay is average when you take the pension into account and the fact that you will be at least middle aged/old by the time you get a long haul command. The job is about as secure as you can get and despite it not being a particularly vibrant airline you can have some fun nights out etc downroute now and again.
Hope this helps, all just my opinion...
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he company pay in 9% of your basic to your pension which is shockingly poor really when you compare to many in the charter world who will pay in 14-15% and fares even worse to the Virgin pension.
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Scroggs - I'm not quite sure how you read Supadupafly's post as dispargaging although I think it should have said 'against the Virgin pension'.
I can assure you that any of us on the new BA pension scheme BARP, look enviously at the contributions that Virgin are putting in for you guys.
I can assure you that any of us on the new BA pension scheme BARP, look enviously at the contributions that Virgin are putting in for you guys.
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Correction to my previous post
Hey Scroggs, just to clarify that yes indeed I was trying to make the point that the Virgin pension is considerably better than the BARP BA one. Sorry if I didn't make that clear originally, I can only assume my brain has slowed down from flying 6 trips in the past 4 weeks. As oojamaflip states us guys in BA on the new pension scheme look enviably at the contribution Virgin and many other carriers make on behalf of their pilots. There was(is) talk that BALPA are going to try and improve the company contribution rates for BARPers as part of the upcoming pension showdown though as time drags on the focus is increasingly shifting to aiding the pilots in NAPS with little or nothing said for sometime on improving BARPs. BALPA seem to favour the view that we should all support the guys in NAPS as a priority on the basis that if BA can get away with changing their pension for the worse then we'll be next. In return BALPA will endevour to get some improvement to BARPs.
Truth be known I'd love to fly for Virgin. I think BA is a good company to work for but Virgin has to be a clear favourite for a number of reasons. I have many friends in Virgin so feel I have some insight into the differences between the 2 airlines. Just a pity that Virgin have just stopped accepting applications for the time being.... poor timing on my part... well maybe one day .. I can dream.
Truth be known I'd love to fly for Virgin. I think BA is a good company to work for but Virgin has to be a clear favourite for a number of reasons. I have many friends in Virgin so feel I have some insight into the differences between the 2 airlines. Just a pity that Virgin have just stopped accepting applications for the time being.... poor timing on my part... well maybe one day .. I can dream.
