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BA or Virgin? Which is better?

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BA or Virgin? Which is better?

Old 3rd Nov 2018, 08:20
  #141 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pickled View Post
BA outsources every job that they practically can, but that is most unlikely to apply to line pilots (training is another matter)
Just goes to show the power of the rumour mill. The possible outsourcing of training was a Chinese whisper that apparently rose and grew out of all proportion out of nothing more sinister than the maintanence of the TBA/TBC buildings being under consideration for outsourcing. BA have already investigated outsourcing training a couple of years back but decided it was cheaper to keep it in house, amongst other reasons.


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Old 3rd Nov 2018, 11:43
  #142 (permalink)  
 
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Some SH training has been outsourced to L3 for capacity reasons, I believe. Although that has caused some issues of it’s own apparently.
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Old 6th Nov 2018, 14:51
  #143 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
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Thanks all for your honesty, advice & input - it really has made for an interesting read and helped make an informed decision.
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Old 6th Nov 2018, 15:18
  #144 (permalink)  
 
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Could anyone be so kind and explain red vs blue thing? How is culture/mentality in each of the companies? Thanks!
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Old 6th Nov 2018, 17:12
  #145 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by cefey View Post
Could anyone be so kind and explain red vs blue thing? How is culture/mentality in each of the companies? Thanks!
Blue = confident in the knowledge that one is working for the worlds favourite airline

Red = Fur coat and no knickers. All about the brand

Actually these are sweeping generalisations: there are great guys and a few not so great working at both. My impression is that crew interaction levels are overall better at VS than BA, but mixed fleet crews have certainly made that gap closer.

Hope that helps!
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Old 6th Nov 2018, 17:46
  #146 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BleedingOn View Post


Blue = confident in the knowledge that one is working for the worlds favourite airline

Red = Fur coat and no knickers. All about the brand

Actually these are sweeping generalisations: there are great guys and a few not so great working at both. My impression is that crew interaction levels are overall better at VS than BA, but mixed fleet crews have certainly made that gap closer.

Hope that helps!
God it makes me so sick ď the worlds favourite airline ď
BA has rapidly gone downhill, anyone that goes to work and thinks that is probably a bit of a [email protected] or a thoroughbred Nigel ( basically the same )

Virgin looks way more exciting than BA
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Old 6th Nov 2018, 19:41
  #147 (permalink)  
 
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BA hasn’t used the “world’s favourite” tagline for decades. Technically, it was actually correct at the time.

“JAFA” could possibly be a better one these days.
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Old 7th Nov 2018, 15:44
  #148 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Riskybis View Post


God it makes me so sick ď the worlds favourite airline ď
BA has rapidly gone downhill, anyone that goes to work and thinks that is probably a bit of a [email protected] or a thoroughbred Nigel ( basically the same )

Virgin looks way more exciting than BA
Trust me there are about 4000 that think it and believe it......
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Old 7th Nov 2018, 19:49
  #149 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Barcli View Post
Trust me there are about 4000 that think it and believe it......
And you know them all on a personal level to make such a statement?

This topic was going so well with respect for each other, until Riskybis and Barcli came along...
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Old 7th Nov 2018, 20:00
  #150 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Barcli View Post
Trust me there are about 4000 that think it and believe it......
There's approximately 4300 pilots in BA and during my 4 years in the company I can assure you that the ratio of [email protected] : good guy/girl is no different than anywhere else. The misconception that we're all a bunch of Nigel's poncing around thinking we're the best is frankly just outdated utter [email protected]@x.
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Old 7th Nov 2018, 20:51
  #151 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 2 Whites 2 Reds View Post
during my 4 years in the company I can assure you that the ratio of [email protected] : good guy/girl is no different than anywhere else
If weíre talking Short Haul, my experience of it is that I had far more great days out at easyJet in my year there than Iíve had in 3 years at BA. The severe lack of pragmatism of many in the LHS at BA and minutiae driven briefings and stress levels in that seat are noticeably higher than any other airline Iíve worked for. They arenít deliberately awkward or difficult individuals by nature outside of the flightdeck but boy do they make it hard work in the flightdeck. I donít know if itís something that you can blame those guys for as such Iíve got a feeling that itís being driven by the training department here.
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Old 7th Nov 2018, 21:14
  #152 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Jumbo2 View Post
And you know them all on a personal level to make such a statement?

This topic was going so well with respect for each other, until Riskybis and Barcli came along...
Jumbo

its just my opinion , the reason is that I believe many colleagues in BA are watching there back , almost terrified of management .
Are you still on SH ? if so you havenít flown with the wonderful captains we have on the 787 fleet .
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Old 8th Nov 2018, 06:32
  #153 (permalink)  
 
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its just my opinion , the reason is that I believe many colleagues in BA are watching there (sic) back , almost terrified of management .
I have to say I’ve never sensed anyone on the line being terrified of this lot or previous management, so I’m puzzled by that- in what context and in what way is this fear manifesting itself? Is it as in: “we’d better not bust the stable approach criteria” , or as in “ I’m not delaying the departure just because we have been under catered/just because we arrived late at the aircraft side

I think being “aware” of the former is fair enough isn’t it? OTOH I’d agree there are one or two colleagues who can behave like Boy Scouts over some issues where we could take a legitimate stand.

Most of us on most Fleets get through the day not thinking much about management...if we do it is just to marvel at the thickness of the silo walls and annoyance at level of competence displayed by some at Waterside.

Last edited by wiggy; 8th Nov 2018 at 06:45.
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Old 8th Nov 2018, 07:20
  #154 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by wiggy View Post


I have to say Iíve never sensed anyone on the line being terrified of this lot or previous management, so Iím puzzled by that- in what context and in what way is this fear manifesting itself? Is it as in: ďweíd better not bust the stable approach criteriaĒ , or as in ď Iím not delaying the departure just because we have been under catered/just because we arrived late at the aircraft side

I think being ďawareĒ of the former is fair enough isnít it? OTOH Iíd agree there are one or two colleagues who can behave like Boy Scouts over some issues where we could take a legitimate stand.

Most of us on most Fleets get through the day not thinking much about management...if we do it is just to marvel at the thickness of the silo walls and annoyance at level of competence displayed by some at Waterside.
Donít get me wrong , all the guys I have flown with have been very professional .
I think itís just on the last few trips I have done , my gears have grinded down with some of the guys I have flown with .
Just bad luck I guess ..... Hopefully next roster will be ok
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Old 8th Nov 2018, 11:48
  #155 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by RexBanner View Post


If weíre talking Short Haul, my experience of it is that I had far more great days out at easyJet in my year there than Iíve had in 3 years at BA. The severe lack of pragmatism of many in the LHS at BA and minutiae driven briefings and stress levels in that seat are noticeably higher than any other airline Iíve worked for. They arenít deliberately awkward or difficult individuals by nature outside of the flightdeck but boy do they make it hard work in the flightdeck. I donít know if itís something that you can blame those guys for as such Iíve got a feeling that itís being driven by the training department here.
Absolutely spot on. I never knew how difficult a single sector could be made until I joined BA - I regularly find myself in total disbelief as the guy next to me conducts a 30 minute brief on a straight forward approach in CAVOK conditions. Even returning to LHR can be turned into a long drawn out affair. As you say, an astonishing lack of pragmatism.

Some places on the network obviously warrant proper discussion, and I appreciate many people have also come from long haul where briefings presumably become a novelty. But we're flying 6 day blocks, comprising anything up to 20 sectors, and you have to adjust accordingly. Quizzing me about the rad alt or MSA on our 5th approach into Heathrow will a) totally disengage me and b) make me want to punch you.

It's definitely something I think ought to be addressed in the training department as Iíve found it makes for an altogether more tiring day - especially if youíre with one of these people for 4 or 5 days in a row.
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Old 8th Nov 2018, 12:24
  #156 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by FACoff View Post
Absolutely spot on. I never knew how difficult a single sector could be made until I joined BA - I regularly find myself in total disbelief as the guy next to me conducts a 30 minute brief on a straight forward approach in CAVOK conditions. Even returning to LHR can be turned into a long drawn out affair. As you say, an astonishing lack of pragmatism.

Some places on the network obviously warrant proper discussion, and I appreciate many people have also come from long haul where briefings presumably become a novelty. But we're flying 6 day blocks, comprising anything up to 20 sectors, and you have to adjust accordingly. Quizzing me about the rad alt or MSA on our 5th approach into Heathrow will a) totally disengage me and b) make me want to punch you.

It's definitely something I think ought to be addressed in the training department as Iíve found it makes for an altogether more tiring day - especially if youíre with one of these people for 4 or 5 days in a row.
Spot on sir
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Old 8th Nov 2018, 12:54
  #157 (permalink)  
 
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OK..I can see where you are coming from...

Once upon a time time we could almost get away with ”Bovingdon, 27L, any questions” on Longhaul, Route Checks excepted...over the years the whole song and dance act has grown..but don’t blame it all on the people in the LHS..trust me there are plenty of your colleagues in the RHS who insist on briefing every item on the “Wheel of Doom” for a CAVOK departure out of LHR.
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Old 8th Nov 2018, 13:06
  #158 (permalink)  
 
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Interesting discussion on briefings. I tend to tune out fairly quickly if the other bloke or bloke-ess is droning on. Briefings lose their effectiveness very quickly if they're too verbose, and in my experience the people who do the longest briefs tend to miss out the bits which are actually important.

As an aside, a colleague (to prove people weren't listening to briefs) once said "At the end of the runway I will ask for both FACs off, pull into a vertical climb and perform a flick roll off the top of the loop." It didn't register with the FO.
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Old 8th Nov 2018, 13:26
  #159 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Riskybis View Post


Donít get me wrong , all the guys I have flown with have been very professional .
I think itís just on the last few trips I have done , my gears have grinded down with some of the guys I have flown with .
Just bad luck I guess ..... Hopefully next roster will be ok
i sympathise. Luckily on my fleet we have a tonne of ďgood folkĒ who just want to be partners in arms getting around with as little hassle as possible. Granted thereís a fair few Richard heads who I swear would have little propellers fitted on top of their epaulettes and even bigger Russian style hats if they could. Iíve just had a decent run of working with some really top folk and came away really enjoying the chats about non works stuff. But I know what itís like when you do have a run of challenging ones. Can really suck the life out of it. A small example that doesnít help is more than a few misunderstand the post flight review is meant to be a team thing, instead they seize the opportunity to play ďhave a go sim debriefĒ. Can make for that final little miserable draining experience to cap off on the way home on what is already a thankless job if youíve been flying with someone whoís psychologically hard work.

I think itís made worse both by LH and that BA are huge, itís always new faces so pot luck. Some say thatís a positive as you rarely have to fly with any Richard heads frequently. But I found when I did fly frequently with Richard heads at previous airlines you actually could adapt to each other and in the end it wasnít so bad really.

WRT the superiority. I personally only have seen it in a the minority of people on the line, but it definitely exists. More indoctrination I think. The majority of colleagues on my fleet seem normal balanced folk to me. Granted everyone is indoctrinated by the ďBA wayĒ but thatís not their fault as we all know itís what this firm want from us. I think the superiority, super science ďletís make this job as hard as possĒ level stuff really starts from the training dept level up into management. One of my joining letters even had something like ďBA has the best pilots bla blaĒ or something like that. Nearly fell over. Had to pinch myself that we werenít in 1930s colonial Britain . I thought I might possibly be in the wrong place at that point ha!
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Old 8th Nov 2018, 14:17
  #160 (permalink)  
 
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With all of the above comments it would indicate that Virgin is best
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