BA or Virgin? Which is better?
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 44
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From: London
Red = Fur coat and no knickers. All about the brand
Actually these are sweeping generalisations: there are great guys and a few not so great working at both. My impression is that crew interaction levels are overall better at VS than BA, but mixed fleet crews have certainly made that gap closer.
Hope that helps!
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 125
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From: London
Blue = confident in the knowledge that one is working for the worlds favourite airline
Red = Fur coat and no knickers. All about the brand
Actually these are sweeping generalisations: there are great guys and a few not so great working at both. My impression is that crew interaction levels are overall better at VS than BA, but mixed fleet crews have certainly made that gap closer.
Hope that helps!
BA has rapidly gone downhill, anyone that goes to work and thinks that is probably a bit of a c@ck or a thoroughbred Nigel ( basically the same )
Virgin looks way more exciting than BA
Joined: Nov 1998
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From: south coast
Trust me there are about 4000 that think it and believe it......
Joined: Jul 2006
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From: London
Joined: Mar 2009
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From: Button Moon
There's approximately 4300 pilots in BA and during my 4 years in the company I can assure you that the ratio of c@ck : good guy/girl is no different than anywhere else. The misconception that we're all a bunch of Nigel's poncing around thinking we're the best is frankly just outdated utter b@ll@x.
Joined: Feb 2005
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From: Botswana
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 125
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From: London
its just my opinion , the reason is that I believe many colleagues in BA are watching there back , almost terrified of management .
Are you still on SH ? if so you haven’t flown with the wonderful captains we have on the 787 fleet .
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,729
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From: The Winchester
its just my opinion , the reason is that I believe many colleagues in BA are watching there (sic) back , almost terrified of management .
I think being “aware” of the former is fair enough isn’t it? OTOH I’d agree there are one or two colleagues who can behave like Boy Scouts over some issues where we could take a legitimate stand.
Most of us on most Fleets get through the day not thinking much about management...if we do it is just to marvel at the thickness of the silo walls and annoyance at level of competence displayed by some at Waterside.
Last edited by wiggy; 8th November 2018 at 06:45.
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 125
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From: London
I have to say I’ve never sensed anyone on the line being terrified of this lot or previous management, so I’m puzzled by that- in what context and in what way is this fear manifesting itself? Is it as in: “we’d better not bust the stable approach criteria” , or as in “ I’m not delaying the departure just because we have been under catered/just because we arrived late at the aircraft side
I think being “aware” of the former is fair enough isn’t it? OTOH I’d agree there are one or two colleagues who can behave like Boy Scouts over some issues where we could take a legitimate stand.
Most of us on most Fleets get through the day not thinking much about management...if we do it is just to marvel at the thickness of the silo walls and annoyance at level of competence displayed by some at Waterside.
I think it’s just on the last few trips I have done , my gears have grinded down with some of the guys I have flown with .
Just bad luck I guess ..... Hopefully next roster will be ok
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 123
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From: UK
If we’re talking Short Haul, my experience of it is that I had far more great days out at easyJet in my year there than I’ve had in 3 years at BA. The severe lack of pragmatism of many in the LHS at BA and minutiae driven briefings and stress levels in that seat are noticeably higher than any other airline I’ve worked for. They aren’t deliberately awkward or difficult individuals by nature outside of the flightdeck but boy do they make it hard work in the flightdeck. I don’t know if it’s something that you can blame those guys for as such I’ve got a feeling that it’s being driven by the training department here.
Some places on the network obviously warrant proper discussion, and I appreciate many people have also come from long haul where briefings presumably become a novelty. But we're flying 6 day blocks, comprising anything up to 20 sectors, and you have to adjust accordingly. Quizzing me about the rad alt or MSA on our 5th approach into Heathrow will a) totally disengage me and b) make me want to punch you.
It's definitely something I think ought to be addressed in the training department as I’ve found it makes for an altogether more tiring day - especially if you’re with one of these people for 4 or 5 days in a row.
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 125
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From: London
Absolutely spot on. I never knew how difficult a single sector could be made until I joined BA - I regularly find myself in total disbelief as the guy next to me conducts a 30 minute brief on a straight forward approach in CAVOK conditions. Even returning to LHR can be turned into a long drawn out affair. As you say, an astonishing lack of pragmatism.
Some places on the network obviously warrant proper discussion, and I appreciate many people have also come from long haul where briefings presumably become a novelty. But we're flying 6 day blocks, comprising anything up to 20 sectors, and you have to adjust accordingly. Quizzing me about the rad alt or MSA on our 5th approach into Heathrow will a) totally disengage me and b) make me want to punch you.
It's definitely something I think ought to be addressed in the training department as I’ve found it makes for an altogether more tiring day - especially if you’re with one of these people for 4 or 5 days in a row.
Some places on the network obviously warrant proper discussion, and I appreciate many people have also come from long haul where briefings presumably become a novelty. But we're flying 6 day blocks, comprising anything up to 20 sectors, and you have to adjust accordingly. Quizzing me about the rad alt or MSA on our 5th approach into Heathrow will a) totally disengage me and b) make me want to punch you.
It's definitely something I think ought to be addressed in the training department as I’ve found it makes for an altogether more tiring day - especially if you’re with one of these people for 4 or 5 days in a row.
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,729
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From: The Winchester
OK..I can see where you are coming from...
Once upon a time time we could almost get away with ”Bovingdon, 27L, any questions” on Longhaul, Route Checks excepted...over the years the whole song and dance act has grown..but don’t blame it all on the people in the LHS..trust me there are plenty of your colleagues in the RHS who insist on briefing every item on the “Wheel of Doom” for a CAVOK departure out of LHR.
Once upon a time time we could almost get away with ”Bovingdon, 27L, any questions” on Longhaul, Route Checks excepted...over the years the whole song and dance act has grown..but don’t blame it all on the people in the LHS..trust me there are plenty of your colleagues in the RHS who insist on briefing every item on the “Wheel of Doom” for a CAVOK departure out of LHR.
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 179
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From: England
Interesting discussion on briefings. I tend to tune out fairly quickly if the other bloke or bloke-ess is droning on. Briefings lose their effectiveness very quickly if they're too verbose, and in my experience the people who do the longest briefs tend to miss out the bits which are actually important.
As an aside, a colleague (to prove people weren't listening to briefs) once said "At the end of the runway I will ask for both FACs off, pull into a vertical climb and perform a flick roll off the top of the loop." It didn't register with the FO.
As an aside, a colleague (to prove people weren't listening to briefs) once said "At the end of the runway I will ask for both FACs off, pull into a vertical climb and perform a flick roll off the top of the loop." It didn't register with the FO.
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 324
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From: UK
I think it’s made worse both by LH and that BA are huge, it’s always new faces so pot luck. Some say that’s a positive as you rarely have to fly with any Richard heads frequently. But I found when I did fly frequently with Richard heads at previous airlines you actually could adapt to each other and in the end it wasn’t so bad really.
WRT the superiority. I personally only have seen it in a the minority of people on the line, but it definitely exists. More indoctrination I think. The majority of colleagues on my fleet seem normal balanced folk to me. Granted everyone is indoctrinated by the “BA way” but that’s not their fault as we all know it’s what this firm want from us. I think the superiority, super science “let’s make this job as hard as poss” level stuff really starts from the training dept level up into management. One of my joining letters even had something like “BA has the best pilots bla bla” or something like that. Nearly fell over. Had to pinch myself that we weren’t in 1930s colonial Britain
. I thought I might possibly be in the wrong place at that point ha! 
Joined: Sep 2018
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From: London
Joined: May 1999
Posts: 241
Likes: 47
From: Runcorn,Cheshire,England
If we’re talking Short Haul, my experience of it is that I had far more great days out at easyJet in my year there than I’ve had in 3 years at BA. The severe lack of pragmatism of many in the LHS at BA and minutiae driven briefings and stress levels in that seat are noticeably higher than any other airline I’ve worked for. They aren’t deliberately awkward or difficult individuals by nature outside of the flightdeck but boy do they make it hard work in the flightdeck. I don’t know if it’s something that you can blame those guys for as such I’ve got a feeling that it’s being driven by the training department here.