BA verses EZY
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BA verses EZY
Ok, here the deal. Currently flying an Airbus for a charter company which is contracting and has no commands for the forseeable future. Absolutely nothing.
Given that anyone joining BA would go to the airbus and do 7-800 hours per year or go to EZY and do 8-900 hours per year, why do we hear so so much about pilot fatigue levels in Easy when they are 'only' doing 100 hours per year more. Which works out, very roughly at an extra days work a month.
Any light shed on this would help make decisions a little easier!
Given that anyone joining BA would go to the airbus and do 7-800 hours per year or go to EZY and do 8-900 hours per year, why do we hear so so much about pilot fatigue levels in Easy when they are 'only' doing 100 hours per year more. Which works out, very roughly at an extra days work a month.
Any light shed on this would help make decisions a little easier!
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OK, I have experience of neither commercial flying on a shift basis, or any experience of these two operators BUT I have experience of lots of different shift patterns and how they affect fatigue.
In my old job (ATC), fatigue is obviously a major thing to be avoided. We did a 4 on 2 off pattern, starting with a Late (4pm-10pm), then going to a Afternoon Swing (12pm-6pm), then Morning Swing (9am-1pm), then Morning (7am or 6am to 11am or 12pm).
This pattern allowed lots of recovery time and I was not in the slightest bit fatigued.
I also have experience of a 2 early, 2 late, 2 off shift pattern. This absolutely killed me, to the point where I went onto night shifts because the hours were better.
Possible explanation? Maybe someone on EZY, RYR or BAW can enlighten.
In my old job (ATC), fatigue is obviously a major thing to be avoided. We did a 4 on 2 off pattern, starting with a Late (4pm-10pm), then going to a Afternoon Swing (12pm-6pm), then Morning Swing (9am-1pm), then Morning (7am or 6am to 11am or 12pm).
This pattern allowed lots of recovery time and I was not in the slightest bit fatigued.
I also have experience of a 2 early, 2 late, 2 off shift pattern. This absolutely killed me, to the point where I went onto night shifts because the hours were better.
Possible explanation? Maybe someone on EZY, RYR or BAW can enlighten.
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Boeing 7E7.
A very good question!
Forget all about bidline etc , it won't be of any benefit to you . Basically; senior guys benefit greatly. BUT IT'S ALWAYS AT SOMEONE ELSE'S EXPENSE!
I'd put forward the argument that fatigue ( BA SH @750hrs vs EZ SH 850hrs) is similar because the "hassle" factor at LHR is very exhausting.
For example, I think I'd rather do six sectors say BHX/DUB rather than 4 sectors LHR/CDG.
LHR means;
holding on almost every approach, frequencies so busy you can't get a word in, no stand on arrival, no busses for pax disembarkation, slow security procedures, crossing busy runways to get to T4, crummy BA ground /baggage handling, unionised "jobsworth" bus drivers etc etc ( you get the idea!)
A very good question!
Forget all about bidline etc , it won't be of any benefit to you . Basically; senior guys benefit greatly. BUT IT'S ALWAYS AT SOMEONE ELSE'S EXPENSE!
I'd put forward the argument that fatigue ( BA SH @750hrs vs EZ SH 850hrs) is similar because the "hassle" factor at LHR is very exhausting.
For example, I think I'd rather do six sectors say BHX/DUB rather than 4 sectors LHR/CDG.
LHR means;
holding on almost every approach, frequencies so busy you can't get a word in, no stand on arrival, no busses for pax disembarkation, slow security procedures, crossing busy runways to get to T4, crummy BA ground /baggage handling, unionised "jobsworth" bus drivers etc etc ( you get the idea!)
Last edited by Shuttleworth; 30th Jun 2004 at 18:12.
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Easy presently operating 6 on 3 off with a crippling change from earlies to lates on day 4. Now about to trial 5 early 2(full)days off 5 normal/lates then 4 days off prior to recommencing earlies. Looking forward to going to work again.
Rgds,
Slonie
Rgds,
Slonie
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Comparing BA Airbus shorthaul out of LHR to Easy A319/737NG out of Luton/LGW, which would be the preferrable position as a junior FO? Would you be flying a comparable number of segments per day for each? Just focusing on those two positions (excluding opportunity for BA longhaul), which is the one you would prefer and why?
Cheers
Cheers
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if you are young (20's) then I would think that BA is the better option due to the ability to switch fleets and maybe even have a longhaul command before retirement. Guys who join BA in their 30's are unlikely to see a longhaul command before retirement. I wouldn't think there is much difference in the working days between EZY and BA on the bus..apart from BA nightstopping more. I know guys working for each and believe it or not the EZY guys on the bus moan less than the BA ones!!
T's and C's at BA have really changed now compared to the 'good old days'. Now the pension is coming down to meet the rest of us too. It's still a career though...if you're young enough.
T's and C's at BA have really changed now compared to the 'good old days'. Now the pension is coming down to meet the rest of us too. It's still a career though...if you're young enough.
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Have been at EZY for over 3 years averaging 640 hours a year - where did the 850 hours a year come from? As far as I am aware line trainers do the most hours here - many over 800 a year.
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Shuttleworth, completely disagree with you.
First try working for Ej then compare apples and pears. It is not mandatory to check for roster changes at BA after every flight. The roster is stable. The hours that you are referring to at Ej is maybe duty not flight time.
Why is there a lot of anti-BA sentiment on PPRUNE?Why?
BAs standards are a cut above the rest and they do know how to look after their crews.
Given the choice most guys/gals would Love to work for BA- hands down. Period.
Sir Don
First try working for Ej then compare apples and pears. It is not mandatory to check for roster changes at BA after every flight. The roster is stable. The hours that you are referring to at Ej is maybe duty not flight time.
Why is there a lot of anti-BA sentiment on PPRUNE?Why?
BAs standards are a cut above the rest and they do know how to look after their crews.
Given the choice most guys/gals would Love to work for BA- hands down. Period.
Sir Don
Q:-
A:-
Because of attitudes like this-
Why is there a lot of anti-BA sentiment on PPRUNE?Why?
Because of attitudes like this-
BAs standards are a cut above the rest
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At easyJet,
Home most nights ( no nightstops for me this month
)
Long days
Regional Bases
Yes we have to check for roster changes but haven't had any severe disruption to my roster in over a year. Rostering over the last six months has improved beyond belief. Now we're about to trial 5/2/5/4 which I'm looking forward to.
Adequate T&C
My view on BA:
Away a lot.
Long days
Bottom of seniority list for a long time
No regional bases
Stable rosters
Average T&C
I think a lot of people would disagree with your last statement Sir Donald.
Which BA standards were you talking about Sir Donald?
Home most nights ( no nightstops for me this month
)Long days
Regional Bases
Yes we have to check for roster changes but haven't had any severe disruption to my roster in over a year. Rostering over the last six months has improved beyond belief. Now we're about to trial 5/2/5/4 which I'm looking forward to.
Adequate T&C
My view on BA:
Away a lot.
Long days
Bottom of seniority list for a long time
No regional bases
Stable rosters
Average T&C
I think a lot of people would disagree with your last statement Sir Donald.
Which BA standards were you talking about Sir Donald?
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Scottie
’’A cut above the rest’’- that’s what it means.
Let me think.
1.Designer uniform and high vizz can anyone see me colours-get real.
2.Route structure,
3.Diversity,
4.4 sector days or 6?
5.Roster stability,
6.Hotel accommodation,
7.Minimum rest,
8.Crew transport,
9.Crew meals,
10.Dedicated staff,
11.Reliability,
12.Where do you actually check-in for duty?
13.Career progression and paths available, yea yea command in 3 years and then what?
14. Resignations per month, workforce satisfaction,
15. One is a career airline ,the other is a stepping stone.
16.Staff travel, etc etc etc shall I keep going my oblivious friend/
How many people are off or have been off on stress, at BA hmmm, unheard of unless???
I used to work for BA (not as flight crew though). I can truly say they are a cut above the rest .Only wish that I was flying for the world’s favourite
However give it some time.
G’Day,
Sir Don
’’A cut above the rest’’- that’s what it means.
Let me think.
1.Designer uniform and high vizz can anyone see me colours-get real.
2.Route structure,
3.Diversity,
4.4 sector days or 6?
5.Roster stability,
6.Hotel accommodation,
7.Minimum rest,
8.Crew transport,
9.Crew meals,
10.Dedicated staff,
11.Reliability,
12.Where do you actually check-in for duty?
13.Career progression and paths available, yea yea command in 3 years and then what?
14. Resignations per month, workforce satisfaction,
15. One is a career airline ,the other is a stepping stone.
16.Staff travel, etc etc etc shall I keep going my oblivious friend/
How many people are off or have been off on stress, at BA hmmm, unheard of unless???
I used to work for BA (not as flight crew though). I can truly say they are a cut above the rest .Only wish that I was flying for the world’s favourite
However give it some time.
G’Day,
Sir Don
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1. Designer Uniforms? Do you really go to work for that?
2. 78 destinations throughout Europe
3. Majority of days are 4 or 2 sectors. Only GLA, EDI & BFS have six sector days and these have been reduced, normally only one or two on roster per month.
4. Roster Stability - mine hasn't changed significantly in about 6 months.
5. Hotel Accommodation - well since we are home every night we don't need it, get it? However I've stayed in Marriotts, Thistle and Holiday Inns with eJ. Personally since I get perhaps one night away per month I'm not bothered.
6. Minimum Rest - ask your BA shorthaul collagues about that one!
7. Crew Transport, why when we are 10 min walk from the aircraft at my base?
8. Crew meals, yep we get em.
9. Dedicated staff? Ha ha make me laugh - a bunch of whingers like the rest of us!
10. Reliability - expand please
11. I check in at my crew room, don't need a fancy crew centre.
12. Career progression - well some of us are quite happy in what we do. I have no wish for long haul or pseudo management positions.
13. As part of the workforce I am satisfied. People will move on to the like of Virgin to try longhaul, if thats their wish so be it. Bit like BA pilots leaving for Emirates & Cathay I suppose....
14 easyJet is a young company and I hope the staff travel improves but it's not a decision I make when looking at employers. I'd rather be home.
15. Sorry I don't know any eJ pilots on stress leave so perhaps you could enlighten me?
Having spoken with some retired BA skippers they've said there is no point in any of us joining BA as the company is not what it once was and the career opportunities at my present company are better.
Carry on with points 16 - 100000 as I'm really enjoying this
2. 78 destinations throughout Europe
3. Majority of days are 4 or 2 sectors. Only GLA, EDI & BFS have six sector days and these have been reduced, normally only one or two on roster per month.
4. Roster Stability - mine hasn't changed significantly in about 6 months.
5. Hotel Accommodation - well since we are home every night we don't need it, get it? However I've stayed in Marriotts, Thistle and Holiday Inns with eJ. Personally since I get perhaps one night away per month I'm not bothered.
6. Minimum Rest - ask your BA shorthaul collagues about that one!
7. Crew Transport, why when we are 10 min walk from the aircraft at my base?
8. Crew meals, yep we get em.
9. Dedicated staff? Ha ha make me laugh - a bunch of whingers like the rest of us!
10. Reliability - expand please
11. I check in at my crew room, don't need a fancy crew centre.
12. Career progression - well some of us are quite happy in what we do. I have no wish for long haul or pseudo management positions.
13. As part of the workforce I am satisfied. People will move on to the like of Virgin to try longhaul, if thats their wish so be it. Bit like BA pilots leaving for Emirates & Cathay I suppose....
14 easyJet is a young company and I hope the staff travel improves but it's not a decision I make when looking at employers. I'd rather be home.
15. Sorry I don't know any eJ pilots on stress leave so perhaps you could enlighten me?
Having spoken with some retired BA skippers they've said there is no point in any of us joining BA as the company is not what it once was and the career opportunities at my present company are better.
Carry on with points 16 - 100000 as I'm really enjoying this
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Actually far more Cathy and Emirates guys move to BA than the other way round. This month I am flying with two ex-Cathay and one ex Emirates. Grass always seems greener on the other side of the fence. In my humble opinion the chaps that are constantly moving airlines seem to lose out long term. It was always thus.
Having said that I don\'t think I have ever flown in BA with an ex Easy pilot! Maybe that points to Easy being a good employer, food for thought.
Having said that I don\'t think I have ever flown in BA with an ex Easy pilot! Maybe that points to Easy being a good employer, food for thought.
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JustBelowCap,
Yep I think you're right about the people constantly moving around lose out. At least in BA to try varied flying i.e. longhaul/shorthaul you don't have to move companies.
Each to their own though
Yep I think you're right about the people constantly moving around lose out. At least in BA to try varied flying i.e. longhaul/shorthaul you don't have to move companies.
Each to their own though
On the other hand, I have not had to sit in the right seat for years and years with BA, earning an F/O's salary and sucking the hind tit at the bottom of an iniquitous and indefensible bidline system.
In my 25 years of civil aviation I have spent precisely 1 year in the right seat. The rest of the time I have been earning bloody good money in the left seat and have a very nice final salary scheme pension to show for it.
Despite flying for several operators, I have earned much more dosh than I would ever have got if I had gone into BA 25 years ago and I have certainly had a hell of a lot more fun!
In my 25 years of civil aviation I have spent precisely 1 year in the right seat. The rest of the time I have been earning bloody good money in the left seat and have a very nice final salary scheme pension to show for it.
Despite flying for several operators, I have earned much more dosh than I would ever have got if I had gone into BA 25 years ago and I have certainly had a hell of a lot more fun!
Last edited by JW411; 14th Jul 2004 at 16:23.
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"Having said that I don't think I have ever flown in BA with an ex Easy pilot! Maybe that points to Easy being a good employer, food for thought."
Since BA haven't recruited any pilots for 3 year, I guess that's not surprising.
At the end of the day, no other airline can offer a more varied career than BA. Though it does of course have it's drawbacks.
Horses for courses.... blah!
Since BA haven't recruited any pilots for 3 year, I guess that's not surprising.
At the end of the day, no other airline can offer a more varied career than BA. Though it does of course have it's drawbacks.
Horses for courses.... blah!
Movin´ up in this world...
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Tandemrotor
"no other airline can offer a more varied career than BA" ...
AF/KL/LH/ in Europe
AA/DL/CO in the US
QF/JL/TG in Asia
Shall I continue?
PS
At the end of the day, it's midnight
AF/KL/LH/ in Europe
AA/DL/CO in the US
QF/JL/TG in Asia
Shall I continue?
PS
At the end of the day, it's midnight