Life's too short.

At this point, 67 pages in, the thread is random noise.

I agree stepwilk, too little known information was put out and who knows when any more will be known. Now all that is being discussed is the sliver of information they released. They have it all even though they haven't gone over it thoroughly but the CVR would tell a lot of the story. We can go on about why the PF elected to pull up and start the whole disaster but the CVR will explain why he thought he had to do it. They already have that information. Eventually we will know too. Guess we will have to wait. It sucks, doesn't it?

FL380
 

As a side matter to that of course deviation, on the night in question, wouldn't FL 380 have been reserved for South bound traffic?

Does the A330 have inertial VSI?

It's not normally in my scan, but may have given them an indication that they were in a deep stall?

Can anyone post the images of the given thread... :sad:

stepwilk, bubbers44,
are you suggesting people shouldn't have the right to express whatever they think, or that none is valid?
No more information would reveal whatever we don't yet know, BEA released information along that line or it would be meaningless and misleading.
You don't need to know the color of cockpit inetrior if you know that the captain went to rest minutes before entering a CB other flights bypassed, that the PF held pro-stall controls throught the fall, and that it resulted as it did.
The answer as to why to me is also pretty obvious, it's in the previous sentence.
I wouldn't discount opinions of worthy others, just because so much was written, you don't have to read it all.

best analysis so far imho.
 

TheShadow in post 1222 gives the best analysis so far on the facts that are known to us. I advise everyone who has an honest and keen interest in this accident to keep a a good look out for his postings.

I go back to gardening, the fate of a retired pilot.

BREATH, it helps. Getting old sucks.

Lonewolf_50

I noted that the Flightglobal article referenced in #1242 stating Abnormal Law was not entered was dated in January of this year, prior to recovery of the data recorder. I would guess it must be re-evaluated in light of the flight data now available. In Abnormal law I've read that only the manual trim wheel would alter the angle of the THS. I've also read that at 13 degrees nose up THS, the sidestick would not have authority to lower the nose. So this is a big and unresolved issue.

Not at all. It's just that 1/after over 1,350 posts, anybody coming relatively fresh to the subject simply hasn't the time to read them all, so the same questions get asked and theorizations get posted over and over and over. 2/The people who have been here from the beginning are no longer bringing anything new to the subject. 3/Many of the real, knowledgeaqble professionals--I'm certainly not one of them, but then I don't post on matters of true import--have moved on, realizing there's nothing new or important to say. And 4/Many of the professionals have been replaced by curious frequent flyers, model builders, flightsim players and Cessna 150 pilots.

Hence random noise. My rule of thumb is that when a thread begins to top five pages, it's time to move on. Everything important to say has been said.

decasali it's the 1st of June not Jan 6th, so apparently its from the recovered data.

Good Memories
 

What is VR on the latest generation of mowers?!

stepwilk

"Hence random noise. My rule of thumb is that when a thread begins to top five pages, it's time to move on. Everything important to say has been said."

So practice what you preach and move on, stepwik

Indeed The Shadow a great post. Thank you.

However let's cut to the chase. Has anyone flown the AF scenario in the simulator and successfully brought the A330 out of its super stall? It is either possible or it isn't.

Now with the enlightenment that it is not just T tailed jets that can end up in this predicament, then some of the protections that are fitted to rear engined aircraft must be considered for other types. High speed, high altitude stall recovery must be trained for or preferably, a better awareness of what is causing an erroneous speed indication. If Air France knew there were issues with the Thales pitot tubes, it was allegedly grossly negligent that they did not either train for the situation the crew of AF 447 found themselves in, or accelerated the replacement of the defective parts.

Perhaps it is time to look at a safer design from the past. The VC10 is the only T-tailed airliner never to have been involved in a deep stall situation. The "10" had a very large and powerful tailplane which was mounted high and swept back. If a stall did occur the elevators were situated well aft from the wing blanking effect. The AF A-330 was lost from an altitude of 38,000 feet, but the VC10's were frequently flown at 43,000 feet with a little help from the droops. Other designs such as the Trident and 1-11 proved in testing to be irrecoverable in a deep stall without a tail chute.

I find it hard to believe that with all of its automated protective systems, this A330 was lost from such a high altitude in an apparently unrecoverable stall. Perhaps Boeing have got it right?

Hi,

Unfortunately .. IMHO you can't reproduce this in the sim with realism.
On the other hand I suspect (after all the allegations in the press or experts about possible prob with Airbus procedures .. etc ..) that Airbus will make a real demonstration flight and introduce a loss of pitot ... and demonstrate that it was no problems for continue safely the flight.
They will save their ass

- The protections were not active
- To conclude it was unrecoverable we would need to know that there were efforts made suitable to recover it. We know of one ND input very late in the game the a/c seemed to be responsive to, but not how long it was sustained. In fact we have no information whatsoever about what happened the following 1m30s
- I can guarantee you it's possible to stall a Boeing. And by pulling up you're not likely to recover that one either

Test pilot "Cats Eyes" Cunningham put a Trident into a deep stall and recovered.

I expect nothing less of AIRBUS and its A-330 test pilots.

The AF 447 crash has shown that in the certification process, there is a gaping hole.

I suspect he has, just like many others. What he has stated is his individual opinion and some readers take that as meaningful that no significant revelations have been missed in their read of the forum.

Quite a few of us are waiting for some new facts rather than a rehash of what might have happened.

A/S / Alt
 

After the pitot was blocked with ice it performed as an altimeter. It would direct the pilot in a counter intuitive and divergent fashion, stick back resulting in increasing indicated airspeed. Stick forward would indicate a speed decrease, so much so that the AOA was disabled.

This is the saddest story since Aero Peru.