Loss of Comms at EGCC
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Loss of Comms at EGCC
I was browsing the Jeppy the other day for the comms fail procedures in EGCC. Found a question that maybe some of you insiders might have the answer to (hi ATC folk!)
The general procedures are same as ICAO, but with a local difference depending on where you are relative to the hold facility when the failure occurs.
If inbound to the hold it says add 10mins to the ETA and hold till then before commencing approach.
Problem is, it doesn't state clearly if that ETA refers to the ETA at the hold facility or at the field itself.
Probably the hold you say?
Well, before you jump in...the other scenario mentioned is that if you lose comms while in the hold you add the ten minutes to the ETA for the hold and then commence approach.
So if the ETA for the hold is used in both cases, why mention the two different scenarios?
Anyone got an answer?
The general procedures are same as ICAO, but with a local difference depending on where you are relative to the hold facility when the failure occurs.
If inbound to the hold it says add 10mins to the ETA and hold till then before commencing approach.
Problem is, it doesn't state clearly if that ETA refers to the ETA at the hold facility or at the field itself.
Probably the hold you say?
Well, before you jump in...the other scenario mentioned is that if you lose comms while in the hold you add the ten minutes to the ETA for the hold and then commence approach.
So if the ETA for the hold is used in both cases, why mention the two different scenarios?
Anyone got an answer?
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Maybe this is the 'Jeppy' letting you down, but that isn't what my Aerad says (albeit a tiny bit out of date, as I don't keep the current one in my study).
If approaching the hold, you will hold until ETA plus ten, or EAT. No difficulty there, then.
If in the hold already, hold until ETA plus ten or last communication with ATC plus ten, whichever is later, or EAT.
Generic comms failure procedures assume the hold is overhead an airfield beacon, and I would always take all mentions of ETAs as relating to the ETA for the holding fix, especially bearing in mind that EATs apply to leaving the hold.
In a real lost comms situation, if the ground kit has gone, it'll be every man for himself, and things like flying .5nm displaced and two hundred feet high might help to save your life.
If approaching the hold, you will hold until ETA plus ten, or EAT. No difficulty there, then.
If in the hold already, hold until ETA plus ten or last communication with ATC plus ten, whichever is later, or EAT.
Generic comms failure procedures assume the hold is overhead an airfield beacon, and I would always take all mentions of ETAs as relating to the ETA for the holding fix, especially bearing in mind that EATs apply to leaving the hold.
In a real lost comms situation, if the ground kit has gone, it'll be every man for himself, and things like flying .5nm displaced and two hundred feet high might help to save your life.
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This is what I found in SAS Flight Support manual:
14.3.7 Manchester TMA:
A.Manchester Intl:
1.If failure occurs before ETA or before EAT when this has been RCVD and acknowledged ACFT will: Proceed to HP MIRSI or ROSUN (DALEY when applicable) or DAYNE. Hold at last assigned level until last acknowledged ETA+10 MIN or EAT when this has been given. Then commence descent for LDG and effect landing according to IAL within 30 MIN (or later if able to APCH and land visually).
2.If failure occurs after ACFT reported to ATC on reaching the holding point, ACFT will: Maintain last assigned holding level at MIRSI or ROSUN (DALEY when applicable)or DAYNE until:
i)ETA over the HP +10 MIN or 10 MIN after the last acknowledged com with ATC whichever is the later or
ii)EAT when this has been received and acknowledged. Then commence descent for LDG and effect landing according to IAL within 30 MIN (or later if able to APCH and land visually).
3.If failure occurs during initial and radar APCH:
Continue visually or by using an appropriate final APCH aid.If not possible proceed at 5000, or last assigned level if higher, to DAYNE hold via AMLET or ROSUN via BURNI. Then see 14.3.2, 14.3.3.or 14.3.9.
4.If failure occurs during intermediate/final approach:Continue visually or by using an appropriate final APCH aid. If not possible follow MISAP to DAYNE hold via AMLET or ROSUN via BURNI.
Sorry if it's a bit messy but I just ripped it out of my manual...
Cheers
14.3.7 Manchester TMA:
A.Manchester Intl:
1.If failure occurs before ETA or before EAT when this has been RCVD and acknowledged ACFT will: Proceed to HP MIRSI or ROSUN (DALEY when applicable) or DAYNE. Hold at last assigned level until last acknowledged ETA+10 MIN or EAT when this has been given. Then commence descent for LDG and effect landing according to IAL within 30 MIN (or later if able to APCH and land visually).
2.If failure occurs after ACFT reported to ATC on reaching the holding point, ACFT will: Maintain last assigned holding level at MIRSI or ROSUN (DALEY when applicable)or DAYNE until:
i)ETA over the HP +10 MIN or 10 MIN after the last acknowledged com with ATC whichever is the later or
ii)EAT when this has been received and acknowledged. Then commence descent for LDG and effect landing according to IAL within 30 MIN (or later if able to APCH and land visually).
3.If failure occurs during initial and radar APCH:
Continue visually or by using an appropriate final APCH aid.If not possible proceed at 5000, or last assigned level if higher, to DAYNE hold via AMLET or ROSUN via BURNI. Then see 14.3.2, 14.3.3.or 14.3.9.
4.If failure occurs during intermediate/final approach:Continue visually or by using an appropriate final APCH aid. If not possible follow MISAP to DAYNE hold via AMLET or ROSUN via BURNI.
Sorry if it's a bit messy but I just ripped it out of my manual...
Cheers
