Quito, Ecuador questions
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Quito, Ecuador questions
We're planning operations into Quito, and I've got a few questions.
1. Runway 35/17 is 10,236 feet long, but it shows a "ILS Displaced Threshold" 1673 feet down the rwy, making it 8563 beyond this threshold. Is it permissable to land short of this threshold (using full length) if on a visual approach? Or any approach other than an ILS?
2. Rwy 35 shows PAPI. Are these located so as to touchdown full length, or are they located to touchdown at the "ILS" displaced threshold?
1. Runway 35/17 is 10,236 feet long, but it shows a "ILS Displaced Threshold" 1673 feet down the rwy, making it 8563 beyond this threshold. Is it permissable to land short of this threshold (using full length) if on a visual approach? Or any approach other than an ILS?
2. Rwy 35 shows PAPI. Are these located so as to touchdown full length, or are they located to touchdown at the "ILS" displaced threshold?
Guest
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Quito is not a place for amatures. Yes you do have to abandon the GS (3.2deg) at 664 DH and transition to the PAPIs (3.0deg). That requires about a 1200-1500 FPM initial sink close to the ground to intercept the normal visual slope. Eng out considerations are VERY important considering the pressure altitude and terrain. There are people that make a living picking up aluminum off the sides of mountains there. Quito is usually a special qualification airport for airlines. The fact that you're asking these questions in this forum, in an attempt to get certified, would be red flags to me if I were the FAA.
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Roadtrip-
No matter how much you know (or think you know), there's always something to learn here on PPRuNe.
You know nothing about me or who I represent, so I'm surprised at the arrogance evidenced in your reply.
I'll pass your concerns on to my POI.
No matter how much you know (or think you know), there's always something to learn here on PPRuNe.
You know nothing about me or who I represent, so I'm surprised at the arrogance evidenced in your reply.
I'll pass your concerns on to my POI.
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quid -
Didn't mean to be arrogant, but info in this forum is at best heresay. The proper source would be a company or check airman that has reliable experience there. If you're planning ops into Quito you should approach some Part 121 airlines that already fly there for their professional and proven training programs, policy, and guidance. AAL comes to mind as a company who knows Quito well. You probably want to have Jepps tailor an Eng Out 10-7 page, if required, for you particular needs as well -- more money, unfortunately. I've flown all over the world and Quito to my mind is one of the most challenging airports around. I would also recommend that you get a jumpseat into Quito in your particular type aircraft sometime and see for yourself (preferably during the day so you can see the terrain on the whole approach. Also, while on the ground take a while and watch some airliner landings, with emphasis on TAS over the threshold, touchdown points and braking. Again, sorry for the tone of the previous post.
Didn't mean to be arrogant, but info in this forum is at best heresay. The proper source would be a company or check airman that has reliable experience there. If you're planning ops into Quito you should approach some Part 121 airlines that already fly there for their professional and proven training programs, policy, and guidance. AAL comes to mind as a company who knows Quito well. You probably want to have Jepps tailor an Eng Out 10-7 page, if required, for you particular needs as well -- more money, unfortunately. I've flown all over the world and Quito to my mind is one of the most challenging airports around. I would also recommend that you get a jumpseat into Quito in your particular type aircraft sometime and see for yourself (preferably during the day so you can see the terrain on the whole approach. Also, while on the ground take a while and watch some airliner landings, with emphasis on TAS over the threshold, touchdown points and braking. Again, sorry for the tone of the previous post.
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Quid:
Roadtrip is right on stating the challenges of Quito.
I however disagree with him saying that this is the wrong place to learn.
OF COURSE tips/info here would be in addition to your other, formal check-out.
Sometimes the school/training environment can be just that: Dusty books.
If a company is starting a new route, you may all be virgins on this particular approach.
The FAA however will accept a 25 year old Pan-Am video as the sole source of information to the pilot in command flying into a strange field in IFR conditions.
FARs is a joke anyway: No duty time limits for international pilots.
And read it again for clarification:
No duty time limitations for international pilots:
Yes, you can work for 40 hours, then fly into
a strange and high/rocky field like Quito,
never been there before. All perfectly legal because ya watched the 'ol tape.
And a month ago or so, hundreds of people were squaking on PPRuNe because some guys flew with a hang over from Spain to the UK.
My grandma could do that.
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Men, this is no drill...
Roadtrip is right on stating the challenges of Quito.
I however disagree with him saying that this is the wrong place to learn.
OF COURSE tips/info here would be in addition to your other, formal check-out.
Sometimes the school/training environment can be just that: Dusty books.
If a company is starting a new route, you may all be virgins on this particular approach.
The FAA however will accept a 25 year old Pan-Am video as the sole source of information to the pilot in command flying into a strange field in IFR conditions.
FARs is a joke anyway: No duty time limits for international pilots.
And read it again for clarification:
No duty time limitations for international pilots:
Yes, you can work for 40 hours, then fly into
a strange and high/rocky field like Quito,
never been there before. All perfectly legal because ya watched the 'ol tape.
And a month ago or so, hundreds of people were squaking on PPRuNe because some guys flew with a hang over from Spain to the UK.
My grandma could do that.
------------------
Men, this is no drill...
Guest
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The man we have heading up the Quito operation has numberous approaches in there as PIC on 747's, but he wasn't around for me to ask at the time, so I posted here.
We are sharing info with other ATA carriers.
Our contract is very good regarding duty time. 16 hours max, no matter where you are.
We are sharing info with other ATA carriers.
Our contract is very good regarding duty time. 16 hours max, no matter where you are.
Guest
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High terrain, bad weather, R/w 17 is out of question at night, so be careful of tendencies to shoot approach with any tailwind, the R/w slopes down so you can’t see the end of r/w, pilots tend to use heavy braking due to that (many burst tires), so develop the procedure to call remaining distance which is available, by the PNF, Suggest to be Captains Ldg only, High crew coordination is vital, Ground proximity warnings are very common, so should really set limits to deviations. Language barrier should be taken into consideration, speak clearly and use aviation terminology only. Some people get really tired and depressed or mood changes on gnd because of the height so take it easy with the exercise, at the hotels normally O2 bottles are available on request. Eng out procedures should be briefed before each T/o as it is not normal, and has a special pattern. (Need to circle in the valley) If you lose an eng enroute do not land at Quito, better find a better place. Pressurization would have a difference to what you are normally used, as you need to climb the cabin instead of the normal descent. Know your tire speed limits and call the gnd speed on final. Be careful with wet R/w's .due rubber deposits you'll find slippery.
