Flight Deck doors and the MEL
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 127
Likes: 0
From: IO83VI
Flight Deck doors and the MEL
This is triggered by the flight deck door thread. I decided to post a new thread rather than change the direction of an existing one.
The company I am employed by, British, totally charter at the moment, has in it’s various MELs (5 a/c types) the fairly normal statement :
The aircraft may continue the flight or series of flights for the purpose of returning to a place where repairs can be made,
The aircraft shall not depart an airport where repairs or replacements can be carried out.
I have always considered this to mean ‘Main Base’ i.e. where the bulk of the Maintenance is carried out, where all the Engineers are etc. However they (MEL Compilers) have inserted a clause in the preamble to the MEL which states that lack of spares, qualified manpower etc. would qualify a station as one where repairs or replacements could not be performed, even if it's a main base. This seems to be a ‘get out ‘ sort of we can fly with that until the spare turns up, qualified manpower is available etc.
My (engineering) view is that this paragraph means, and not open to interpretation, grounded on return to base, spares, manpower, time, and all the other excuses not even considered.
What do the drivers think ?
The company I am employed by, British, totally charter at the moment, has in it’s various MELs (5 a/c types) the fairly normal statement :
The aircraft may continue the flight or series of flights for the purpose of returning to a place where repairs can be made,
The aircraft shall not depart an airport where repairs or replacements can be carried out.
I have always considered this to mean ‘Main Base’ i.e. where the bulk of the Maintenance is carried out, where all the Engineers are etc. However they (MEL Compilers) have inserted a clause in the preamble to the MEL which states that lack of spares, qualified manpower etc. would qualify a station as one where repairs or replacements could not be performed, even if it's a main base. This seems to be a ‘get out ‘ sort of we can fly with that until the spare turns up, qualified manpower is available etc.
My (engineering) view is that this paragraph means, and not open to interpretation, grounded on return to base, spares, manpower, time, and all the other excuses not even considered.
What do the drivers think ?
Last edited by woderick; 20th September 2002 at 22:21.
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 121
Likes: 0
From: North Sea and elsewhere
Does the MEL say "shall not depart an airport......" or "shall not depart a maintenance base......."?
I have heard that certain airlines interprete "maintenance base" as the "maintenance area" on an airport. ie, if the aircraft has left the "maintenance base" and is now sitting on an airport stand loading pax then it is considered to be away from the maintenance base. If it is now found to have a defect, it may depart on a flight (assuming no other restrictions apply). The fault will then be fixed next time it is in the "maintenance base".
Any opinions??
Sorry if I have slightly digressed from the original post but the CAA must have agreed (or not objected to) the MEL's preamble. If the poster is concerned, he/she should phone the CAA MEL section to get its interpretation.......that's if you can get to speak to someone in the CAA who is willing to make a decision !!
I have heard that certain airlines interprete "maintenance base" as the "maintenance area" on an airport. ie, if the aircraft has left the "maintenance base" and is now sitting on an airport stand loading pax then it is considered to be away from the maintenance base. If it is now found to have a defect, it may depart on a flight (assuming no other restrictions apply). The fault will then be fixed next time it is in the "maintenance base".
Any opinions??
Sorry if I have slightly digressed from the original post but the CAA must have agreed (or not objected to) the MEL's preamble. If the poster is concerned, he/she should phone the CAA MEL section to get its interpretation.......that's if you can get to speak to someone in the CAA who is willing to make a decision !!
Last edited by coalface; 23rd September 2002 at 19:02.
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 93
Likes: 0
From: Where ever boss send me
I think that you might find your company MEL mentions line /contract maintenance in the introduction. Anyway the satement say" The aircraft may continue the flight or series of flights for the purpose of returning to a place where repairs can be made,
The aircraft shall not depart an airport where repairs or replacements can be carried out. " No all airports have facilities where repairs & replacements can be made therefore it is open to the interpretation of the company & the CAA.
The aircraft shall not depart an airport where repairs or replacements can be carried out. " No all airports have facilities where repairs & replacements can be made therefore it is open to the interpretation of the company & the CAA.
Joined: Dec 1998
Posts: 4,282
Likes: 6
From: Escapee from Ultima Thule
What do the definitions for the various terms say? They have an important effect on interpretation.
For example, 'Maintenance Base' may be defined as the airport, a designated area on the airport etc etc. That alone affects the meaning of any sentence that uses the term.
For example, 'Maintenance Base' may be defined as the airport, a designated area on the airport etc etc. That alone affects the meaning of any sentence that uses the term.
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,704
Likes: 1
From: Who can say?
Personal opinion only here...
Unless otherwise defined (in a version containing the written approval of the CAA):-
"Maintenance Base" = an airport at which the airline has a maintenance facility, whether their own or 3rd. Party.
A company attempting to define "Maintenance Base" as the maintenance area only is, IMHO, very far indeed from the intention of the MEL and the spirit of the law.
Further "...where repairs may be carried out" does not mean to limit the MEL further - spares, manpower, etc etc being temporarily unavailable do not permit the aircraft to continue. Otherwise I could see the scene:- "G-XXXX is coming in with that snag - quick - five of you guys take an early lunch so it can depart again!"
If either of these were to be used by airlines as excuses I would expect the CAA FOI to come down very hard, and demand a change to the wording of the MEL to close such a loophole.
Misuse of an MEL in this way is, IMO, dangerous and not to be condoned.
Unless otherwise defined (in a version containing the written approval of the CAA):-
"Maintenance Base" = an airport at which the airline has a maintenance facility, whether their own or 3rd. Party.
A company attempting to define "Maintenance Base" as the maintenance area only is, IMHO, very far indeed from the intention of the MEL and the spirit of the law.
Further "...where repairs may be carried out" does not mean to limit the MEL further - spares, manpower, etc etc being temporarily unavailable do not permit the aircraft to continue. Otherwise I could see the scene:- "G-XXXX is coming in with that snag - quick - five of you guys take an early lunch so it can depart again!"
If either of these were to be used by airlines as excuses I would expect the CAA FOI to come down very hard, and demand a change to the wording of the MEL to close such a loophole.
Misuse of an MEL in this way is, IMO, dangerous and not to be condoned.
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 2,627
Likes: 2
From: UTC +8
The ultimate maintenance "interpretation," as to whether something needs to be logged and fixed "right now" or "later," is made by the flight crew: It has a lot to do with foreign "garden spots," pubs and hotels and about how soon or how late the crew wants to get back to home base. Needles to say, there is a huge difference in having to camp at Kano or at Dakar; Which is to say that, unless an engine has gone on vacation, the crew will likely press on to the next stop.
Joined: May 1999
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
From: Manchester UK
This is a very grey area in all airlines. However if there are no spares available and no down time then it is interpreted that the repairs cannot be carried out. It is the same in all UK airlines.
However the "preamble" to the MEL is actually written by the CAA in the Type MEL Supplement. They wrote it.....and the Airline must copy it.
However the "preamble" to the MEL is actually written by the CAA in the Type MEL Supplement. They wrote it.....and the Airline must copy it.
Joined: Dec 1998
Posts: 3,038
Likes: 52
From: .
Does the MEL also have a time code A, B, C or D? In this sort of case you are normally given a 3 day limit, which should give you time to get the spares and then carry out the fix.
Some of our (CX) limits are similar to that stated but also have a clause "shall not depart Hong Kong" so that basically you can get it back to base where it must be fixed.
Some of our (CX) limits are similar to that stated but also have a clause "shall not depart Hong Kong" so that basically you can get it back to base where it must be fixed.
