APU inop risks
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 316
Likes: 263
From: Earth
APU inop risks
with recent events around the world, and noticing the increase in inop APU's around the network, should there be a push back agaist company, and start rejecting aircraft's for having inop APU's flying around the country for week's on end?
i imagine capt sully's story will end very differently if his apu was on MEL.
i imagine capt sully's story will end very differently if his apu was on MEL.
Popular Reply
28th January 2025, 09:56
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,260
Likes: 1,170
From: Kichin
Pilots should always be pushing back against practices that reduce safety in the interest of profit.
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,260
Likes: 1,170
From: Kichin
Pilots should always be pushing back against practices that reduce safety in the interest of profit.
Joined: Jul 2024
Posts: 355
Likes: 424
From: The Bin
Nothing more enjoyable then rocking up to Melbourne on a 40 degree day with no APU, shutting down the engines after GPU plugged in and the Swissport bloke on the ground tells you “sorry there’s no qualified stair pushers so it’ll be a 10 minute wait before we can open the door”
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 657
Likes: 47
From: Asia
As I’m sure you’re aware, an MEL simply dictates what defects you may dispatch with, not what you must dispatch with. Furthermore any preamble to an MEL is very clear in what authority a Captain possesses regarding his or her right to request any defect be rectified. Remember, your company will not back you up if you accept a defect and a subsequent problem occurs which is exacerbated by said defect. Their position will be ‘they didn’t have to accept it’.
Pilots should always be pushing back against practices that reduce safety in the interest of profit.
Pilots should always be pushing back against practices that reduce safety in the interest of profit.
I am aware of that - so will you dispatch a 787 or a 330 safely without APU on a Transpac or will you insist on an aircraft swap (with an extensive delay)?
Last edited by AQIS Boigu; 28th January 2025 at 12:22.
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,396
Likes: 148
From: Weltschmerz-By-The-Sea Australia
An aircraft with a RAT is a different kettle of fish to an obsolete aircraft without one. That said: perhaps*
*I have been…difficult for 40 years as a captain and no one has ever argued with me, In that time I have been confronted with NO generators twice** and am reluctant to explore the attendant complications again. Your curiosity and acquiescence may eventually provide you with other insights.
**including once, for a time, on a 330
*I have been…difficult for 40 years as a captain and no one has ever argued with me, In that time I have been confronted with NO generators twice** and am reluctant to explore the attendant complications again. Your curiosity and acquiescence may eventually provide you with other insights.
**including once, for a time, on a 330
Joined: Sep 2024
Posts: 51
Likes: 87
From: Perth
Ha ! APU inop, that's NOTHING compared to a day in the life of a Network pIlot. They are running around with Packs out, bleeds MEL'ed for days (no APU bleed airborne) high engine vibes, fuel leaks, FMC's inop, HYD problems, GPS no RAIM for over a year now, you name it. QF couldn't care less.
Joined: Apr 2003
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 3,652
Likes: 492
From: Europe
Now of course, if you think your company is bending the rules, then we are playing a different ballgame all together…
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 344
Likes: 43
From: Land of Oz
Ha ! APU inop, that's NOTHING compared to a day in the life of a Network pIlot. They are running around with Packs out, bleeds MEL'ed for days (no APU bleed airborne) high engine vibes, fuel leaks, FMC's inop, HYD problems, GPS no RAIM for over a year now, you name it. QF couldn't care less.
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,260
Likes: 1,170
From: Kichin
It doesn’t really matter who I work for. Suffice to say it’s concerning that any Australian RPT jet operator is still entrenched in the good ol’ GA mantra of ‘it says you can go so you should’. This also goes beyond just APUs, how many deferred items are airborne as we speak, and how many of those are occurring simply because airlines prefer to prioritise profit over maintenance? The company I work for is known for not-so gently coercing the Captain into accepting a defect just because the MEL suggests you can.
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,260
Likes: 1,170
From: Kichin
Ha ! APU inop, that's NOTHING compared to a day in the life of a Network pIlot. They are running around with Packs out, bleeds MEL'ed for days (no APU bleed airborne) high engine vibes, fuel leaks, FMC's inop, HYD problems, GPS no RAIM for over a year now, you name it. QF couldn't care less.
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 316
Likes: 263
From: Earth
Ha ! APU inop, that's NOTHING compared to a day in the life of a Network pIlot. They are running around with Packs out, bleeds MEL'ed for days (no APU bleed airborne) high engine vibes, fuel leaks, FMC's inop, HYD problems, GPS no RAIM for over a year now, you name it. QF couldn't care less.
Joined: Dec 2024
Aviation Qualifications: PPL
Posts: 101
Likes: 95
From: Maskot
It doesn’t really matter who I work for. Suffice to say it’s concerning that any Australian RPT jet operator is still entrenched in the good ol’ GA mantra of ‘it says you can go so you should’. This also goes beyond just APUs, how many deferred items are airborne as we speak, and how many of those are occurring simply because airlines prefer to prioritise profit over maintenance? The company I work for is known for not-so gently coercing the Captain into accepting a defect just because the MEL suggests you can.
Joined: Dec 2001
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 4,419
Likes: 853
From: Brisvegas
I see some of the items in the MEL as a way to get the aircraft home to a maintenance base, not a way to fly it for two weeks with a US item. Notwithstanding the ten or thirty day restrictions.
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 781
Likes: 81
From: melbourne
Ha ! APU inop, that's NOTHING compared to a day in the life of a Network pIlot. They are running around with Packs out, bleeds MEL'ed for days (no APU bleed airborne) high engine vibes, fuel leaks, FMC's inop, HYD problems, GPS no RAIM for over a year now, you name it. QF couldn't care less.
It doesnt matter how long it takes, if it causes a delay that is not your problem.
The chief pilot or any other management stoog will not be sitting next to you at 30,000 feet when you need to make a decision because of an equipment failure due to their dont care cost cutting measures.
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 376
Likes: 41
From: Brisbane
Spare a thought for the FOs who may feel that it’s not acceptable, but due to it being “the Captain’s ship” would find it tough to speak up and effectively over-rule, and don’t have that defence in stepping off..
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 800
Likes: 279
From: East of Westralia
First question I ask my FOs when dealing with a serious MEL - any reason you wouldn’t take it?
Joined: Apr 2003
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 3,652
Likes: 492
From: Europe
The question in the OP is actually quite interesting: what is the risk of flying around without an APU and how does that correlate with the latest spat of incidents.
Was the APU a factor in any of the recent incidents to such an extent that the whole MEL safety assessment should be reconsidered? Contrary to the OP I don’t think the APU was a deciding factor in any recent incidents. Even in Sully’s case.
So, do we need to ask the manufacturer, legislator, regulator, airlines and pilots to reconsider the APU rectification interval in the MEL? Is there an emerging case for this? I doubt it.
Was the APU a factor in any of the recent incidents to such an extent that the whole MEL safety assessment should be reconsidered? Contrary to the OP I don’t think the APU was a deciding factor in any recent incidents. Even in Sully’s case.
So, do we need to ask the manufacturer, legislator, regulator, airlines and pilots to reconsider the APU rectification interval in the MEL? Is there an emerging case for this? I doubt it.
