"Roll the Trucks" ATC verbiage in the USA

[BoeingDriver99]

“Roll the trucks” is a demonstrable phenom in a specific demographic. Not Nationality specific.

To attempt to turn that into “trashing other nations” is hyperbole at worst and naive at best.

The pilots who choose to use casual RT are a specific bunch - they use the same R/T worldwide. Similarly; the ATC who choose to use casual R/T are also localised; they expect the non local pilots to understand their lingua franca that they apply to all pilots, both foreign & domestic.

Professionals adapt, overcome & improvise.

It has nothing to do with countries. It’s all to do with training, standards and attitude.

But in the context of the UK’s current strife I’m not surprised someone tried to drag nationalism into this pretty inane and basic discussion.

Hey ho, the JAL 350 evacuation & the AA 320 evacuation demonstrated these differences quite clearly.

Caveat;

there are none so blind as those who will not see

[Equivocal]

I've spent a long time working in airport ATC and ground ops. In most/many parts of the world, if the pilot declares an emergency, either using MAYDAY or PAN, or just mutters something about having a bit of a problem, the controller will implement the Emergency Response Plan. Each plan is different and the level of response, both on the airport and at other sites such as hospitals, will vary to suit the local situation. Although a specific level of emergency is defined for certain situations, it may come down to an assessment by the controller of the information provided by the crew. From an aircraft in the air, 'Roll the trucks' is of little value to anyone, in almost every case any RFFS vehicles on the airport will be alerted and moved to one or more positions close to the runway. What is far more important, as others have said, is to know the nature of the problem and any special handling that may be needed. But I guess if you just say 'Roll the trucks', all that important stuff can be sorted out later....

[jumpseater]

Originally Posted by DuncanDoenitz

Incidentally, with regard to communicating the location, I think a Crash Map grid reference is ok for an incident off-piste, but you can't whack the Airfield Chart for precision. Every responder is Airfield Driving qualified (or will be so escorted) and will know exactly where "Taxiway Tango abeam Stand 23" is.

The crash map grid reference is given for clarity and simplicity. It enables the crews to easily memorise the location whilst they are running and getting their PPE on, starting the vehicles, and getting moving. Once they are crewed and moving, the definitive location, route, and any further pertinent details can be passed. Not all responders are crash vehicle driving qualified either, and I’ve known a few that aren’t qualified for airside area driving. The emergency crews have a good working knowledge of the airfield but not everyone of them will know exactly where “Taxiway Tango Abram stand 23” is. If taxiway Alpha is 3km long, the airfield grid reference is much more accurate in getting first responders rapidly moving to a reference they are familiar with, and train for.

The airfield grid is also a vital element for directing external resources to the incident scene. When one kicks off for real simplicity is key as not all airport staff who play a role in the real thing, escorting etc, will be regular airside drivers or operators.

[meleagertoo]

When one hears cringe-making hillbilly-style nonsense like "roll the trucks" coming from allegedly 'professional' pilots it make me wonder how they'd request, say, medical assistance. "Boogie the gurneys"? Perhaps with "Dood" or "man" added for good measure? Don't sneer, it's no more ridiculous than 'roll the trucks', in fact it's considerably more precise as gurneys are pieces of medical equipment while 'trucks' conveys only freight and sometimes leisure vehicles, perhaps 40 tons of string beans or maybe something testosterone-enhancing with a beer cooler, rifle rack and a lawn tractor in the back. 'Truck' conveys fire engines to very few people indeed overall.
It is generally agreed that aviation RT should only consist of words or phrases that convey a clear and specific meaning in the language in use, and 'roll the trucks' fails that test miserably.
How would these people call for police or security? "Rumble the goons"?

Other equally silly suggestions welcome.

[DuncanDoenitz]

Originally Posted by jumpseater

The airfield grid is also a vital element for directing external resources to the incident scene. When one kicks off for real simplicity is key as not all airport staff who play a role in the real thing, escorting etc, will be regular airside drivers or operators.

I take your point on the simplicity thing, but I would expect that non airfield-permit-holders would never be driving to an on-airfield incident, except when so-escorted.

[jumpseater]

Originally Posted by DuncanDoenitz

I take your point on the simplicity thing, but I would expect that non airfield-permit-holders would never be driving to an on-airfield incident, except when so-escorted.

Up until three years ago I experienced and expected the same thing. Now, not so much …

[hans brinker]

Originally Posted by meleagertoo

When one hears cringe-making hillbilly-style nonsense like "roll the trucks" coming from allegedly 'professional' pilots it make me wonder how they'd request, say, medical assistance. "Boogie the gurneys"? Perhaps with "Dood" or "man" added for good measure? Don't sneer, it's no more ridiculous than 'roll the trucks', in fact it's considerably more precise as gurneys are pieces of medical equipment while 'trucks' conveys only freight and sometimes leisure vehicles, perhaps 40 tons of string beans or maybe something testosterone-enhancing with a beer cooler, rifle rack and a lawn tractor in the back. 'Truck' conveys fire engines to very few people indeed overall.
It is generally agreed that aviation RT should only consist of words or phrases that convey a clear and specific meaning in the language in use, and 'roll the trucks' fails that test miserably.
How would these people call for police or security? "Rumble the goons"?

Other equally silly suggestions welcome.

Any controller at an international airport in the US would know what you mean by "roll the trucks", "declaring an emergency", "MAYDAY,MAYDAY", ASO. I have had way more issues the years I flew in the EU, as a European getting things from done ATC than I see here in the US. Yes, we have our own lingo here, but everyone understands it. When I ask for "EMT" or "LEO at the gate" it happens. No "dood" required. Have had several emergencies in the EU, mostly Spain. Always painful, always had to redeclare after a frequency change. Just had a medical emergency flying into LAS. I wasn't sure if we needed priority, as the situation was under control. ATC advised us they preferred to declare the emergency for us, got us on the ground fast, the "trucks" followed us to the gate, and the ambulance was waiting for us there. I did my flight training in the EU, am originally from there, and operated there for close to a decade, and have been in the US for the last 20. Up north everything was difficult because of organization, down south everything was difficult because of dis-organization. Look in the mirror, plenty of cringe from professional EU pilots. And that is just the ones that actually speak English, because you seem to forget the ones that barely can speak it.

[meleagertoo]

Originally Posted by hans brinker

Yes, we have our own lingo here, but everyone understands it. When I ask for "EMT" or "LEO at the gate" it happens.

Look in the mirror, plenty of cringe from professional EU pilots. And that is just the ones that actually speak English, because you seem to forget the ones that barely can speak it.

Cannot recall cringe RT on that level from pilots in Eu ever except for perhaps poor ability in spoken English (and most of that is from non-Eu pilots) which is more or less forgiveable, as opposed to wilfully talking childish yee-haar scribble like 'Roll the trucks'.
In UK eryone would know what "Winkle out the Trumpton" means - but that's no reason for 'professional' pilots to be using it on TR, is it???

It's an exact comparison...

There may not be an ICAO OK phrase to specifiacally call the fire service, buit "MAYDAY FIRE" works the world over except in the strange places where you'd be subjected to a barrage of queries about whether you're declaring and emergency (!!!), what the nature of the problem is, how many pob, how much fuel in pounds...
"Request fire service" should have the same effect. If only.

[hans brinker]

Originally Posted by meleagertoo

Cannot recall cringe RT on that level from pilots in Eu ever except for perhaps poor ability in spoken English (and most of that is from non-Eu pilots) which is more or less forgiveable, as opposed to wilfully talking childish yee-haar scribble like 'Roll the trucks'.
In UK eryone would know what "Winkle out the Trumpton" means - but that's no reason for 'professional' pilots to be using it on TR, is it???

It's an exact comparison...

There may not be an ICAO OK phrase to specifiacally call the fire service, buit "MAYDAY FIRE" works the world over except in the strange places where you'd be subjected to a barrage of queries about whether you're declaring and emergency (!!!), what the nature of the problem is, how many pob, how much fuel in pounds...
"Request fire service" should have the same effect. If only.

I wasn't talking about cringe, just the fact that on the various emergencies I have had in the last 25 years of flying they were handled vastly better in the US than the EU, just no comparison. Maybe the UK is above reproach, but so is Delaware...... If you say "MAYDAY" in the US every controller knows you are declaring an emergency, no need to clarify. Declared 7 emergencies in the US of the top of my head, all were zero pressure from ATC "when able state nature of emergency, POB/FOB", say "STANDBY", no further questions. And I absolutely have zero patience for the poor level of English spoken on the frequency all over south and east EU. I did ATC in France in French, in Spain in Spanish, because some of those fields would not have ATC that spoke English (neither my native language, and English isn't it either). There is just no excuse for ATC/pilots not being fluent in English today. So yeah, spare me....

also there is an option to delete posts, you know, just in case you reply 3 times.....

[josephfeatherweight]

If you say "MAYDAY" in the US every controller knows you are declaring an emergency, no need to clarify.

I have seen more than one YouTube video that contradicts EXACTLY that:
Aircraft: "Mayday, Mayday, Mayday, etc, etc."
US ATC: "Confirm you're declaring an emergency??"

You Tube

See video from 2:00 mins.

[InSoMnIaC]

“Require jackless snorkel” sounds like it might catch on

[jumpseater]

Originally Posted by meleagertoo

In UK eryone would know what "Winkle out the Trumpton" means - but that's no reason for 'professional' pilots to be using it on TR, is it???

It's an exact comparison...
.

Its nothing of the sort, as a Uk national I have no idea whatsoever on what you’re on about.

If I heard a pilot say “roll the trucks” whilst not Uk CAP413 compliant, I’m pretty sure any ATCO/ATCA or airfield operations person would come to the conclusion that vehicles needed to be moved. And logic would dictate that’s probably a call for RFFS, because generically fire response vehicles are known as “fire trucks”.

[BoeingDriver99]

I’ve worked & flown all over the world and at least we can all agree that Spanish ATC is the absolute worst.

And the US gets second worst

[WHBM]

Originally Posted by hans brinker

If you say "MAYDAY" in the US every controller knows you are declaring an emergency, no need to clarify....

One wonders what do USA crews actually learn and do in their FAA exams or sim checks ? "Mayday" or "Declaring an Emergency" ? Would you be failed for saying the opposite one ?

And what do USA controllers make of "Pan Pan Pan" ?

** - In passing I was addressed, on frequency, as "Pard'ner" in the US. Which I sort of understood ...

[RandomPerson8008]

At training for a US carrier with ~300 widebody aircraft, it is insisted that we use Mayday or Pan Pan as appropriate, including upgrading or downgrading between the two or cancelling as appropriate (at least on our specific fleet type). The students do it well enough to get through training, although in most cases it has to be taught, even though the average trainee has been flying professionally 10+ years. As most of the newhires are around age 40 it is very difficult to drive out their previous bad habits. What they do in the real world when situations occur may well be a reversion to law of primacy coming from whatever they learned in the military, or a small local flight school. I can't explain why so many of my colleagues are non-chalant about R/T. Luckily CPDLC is taking over so maybe soon it will be a non-issue most of the time! When I started as an EMB-145 FO decades ago we were all just taught to say "declaring an emergency" and that was it, granted that airplane did not leave North America.

[Check Airman]

To get back to the original question, on the cpdlc emergency screen, it says ARFF. I’d go with that to be the most correct answer.

[+TSRA]

Here in Canada the verbiage changed from 'Crash, Fire, Rescue' to 'Airport Rescue Fire Fighting' a few years ago (maybe a decade or so). You'll still hear CRF said during training from some of the older pilots, even though we've made a similar push to sticking as closely to ICAO phraseology for everything. We've been assured that despite one or two cases to the contrary, MAYDAY and PAN PAN will be understood worldwide and once you tell ATC where you are going, the appropriate services will be activated.

"Roll the trucks" sounds like something out of Smokey and the Bandit. I like it.

[itsnotthatbloodyhard]

If Rolling the Trucks wasn’t cringeworthy enough before, you’d think the appalling P-63/B-17 midair would’ve seen an end to it.

From around 11:30:

You Tube

[Capn Bloggs]

Originally Posted by WHBM

And what do USA controllers make of "Pan Pan Pan" ?

You do mean "Pan Pan, Pan Pan, Pan Pan", don't you? ​​​​​​​

[hans brinker]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kd4-Qv7ZEK4

www.youtube.com/watch?v=kd4-Qv7ZEK4

Engine shut down due to low oil pressure. Mayday declared. I understand that that for non USA-English speakers this sounds messy, but for all of us who do this every day it works well.