Flare technique A319/320/321

[321XLR]

Originally Posted by Mr Good Cat

My response was aimed at some of the replies, not the question, which of course is reasonable. Suggestions such as to ‘unhook the thrust levers at 40 feet before the flare’ will get the original poster in a lot of trouble should things go wrong and he/she followed such advice.

unhooking them out of CL detent is merely a way to start moving them to idle. walking them back smoothly does not mean "slow"

40 feet before the flare? that is not what I said. I said at 40 feet.

autothrust is still engaged until you hit Idle.

of course, you knew that?

[BoeingDriver99]

2024 commercial aviation - asking strangers on an internet forum how to land an aircraft full of passengers.

No doubt you’ll also have done hours of complete rubbish CBT, days of “CRM” and multiple simulator hours spent mostly with the autopilot engaged in the hold.

And yet here you are; asking anonymous strangers how to land an airliner? What a joke.

[CHfour]

As a retired 738 guy, I'm surprised that the bus is so different (no rude answers, please). The 73 autoland flares at 27ft, I think, but Boeing suggest 15ft for manual flares if I recall correctly so 30 seems high to me. I used to try to initiate it between the 20ft callout and the 10 but some effos I flew with did nothing until the 10ft call and managed nice landings. I found that most effos had a useful trait, when I was PF, of cringing if they thought I was leaving it a bit late. I could see this in my peripheral vision and this saved the day on many occasions when I was having a bad day. The very few greasers I managed were pure fluke TBH but I was more concerned about landing in the right place at the correct speed than what the pax or crew thought of my "arrival". I only ever had one hard landing (CAVOK, wind light and variable, broad daylight) and, to this day, have no idea what I did wrong!

[CVividasku]

Originally Posted by Mr Good Cat

Just do what it says in the book and you can't go wrong.

When did books start learning to land airplanes ?

[giggitygiggity]

Originally Posted by 321XLR

unhooking them out of CL detent is merely a way to start moving them to idle. walking them back smoothly does not mean "slow"

40 feet before the flare? that is not what I said. I said at 40 feet.

autothrust is still engaged until you hit Idle.

of course, you knew that?

Again, the manual tells you that the thrust levers should be closed quickly. Otherwise you're risking the engines spooling up and increasing your landing roll. You're overcomplicating such a simple technique.

[321XLR]

Originally Posted by giggitygiggity

Again, the manual tells you that the thrust levers should be closed quickly. Otherwise you're risking the engines spooling up and increasing your landing roll. You're overcomplicating such a simple technique.

Why would the engines spool up? Where did I say do it slowly?

Show me the FCTM page number where it says bring them back quickly ?

I believe it says smoothly, something that I also said.

[AerocatS2A]

Originally Posted by 321XLR

Why would the engines spool up? Where did I say do it slowly?

Show me the FCTM page number where it says bring them back quickly ?

I believe it says smoothly, something that I also said.

FCTM PR NP SOP 250 FLARE AND TOUCHDOWN

At 20 ft the "RETARD" auto call-out reminds the pilot to retard the thrust levers. It is a reminder rather than an order. When best adapted, the pilot will rapidly retard all thrust levers...

It follows with advice about retarding earlier or later or so on.

I would suggest that if you want fine control over the thrust in the flare you should be flying with manual thrust, but whatever works for you.

[Gargleblaster]

Funny how pilots can't agree on two subjects: Exactly why and how wings generate lift and exactly how a landing is performed :-)

[FM_A320]

Originally Posted by Gargleblaster

Funny how pilots can't agree on two subjects: Exactly why and how wings generate lift and exactly how a landing is performed :-)

Here it’s the same with captains and line trainers. No one has a single opinion:
I’ve been told:
- Look at the far end, look in the middle, keep looking at your target
- flare with a prompt backpressure (decise), flare with a slow an continuos movement
- Wait until 30’, at 40’ think to flare and in this way you’ll be starting by 30’. Wait until 10’

[WhatShortage]

Originally Posted by FM_A320

Thank you for all the great inputs.
In your opinion is it correct approaching 50’ looking towards the far end (or at least further down the runway)?
Some captains told me to keep looking at the 2 big fat markers until I start the flare (so approx 30/20 ft). Others approaching the threshold and latest by 50’ to look away….

Keep looking at instruments and transitioning unless you're already on a visual following papis. Don't adjust the pitch up too much on the flare without putting the thrust on idle or the act will accelerate and you'll have a long flare or go around ( this in a normal escenario... At times A BIT of thrust will be needed due to gusts etc)
The act touches firms most likely due to lack of lift and being a bit high on the flare, do the same as you're doing a bit later.

I started doing a "double flare" which I didn't like AND MORE IMPORTANT this is not the correct technique but it helps in the beginning. Lower the rate at~40 flare at ~20.

ALSO VERY IMPORTANT... Seat adjustment? Are you EVERYDAY seated at the same exact position in accordance to your ND/PFD windshield? Meaning, do you always see the same exact picture? Otherwise... You'll continue struggling. Advice from someone flying way too many different a320s from different operators, have a reference on your pedals and arm rest and then adjust it a bit to be exactly the same everyday. Let's say 6 on pedals (this should be the same always), 7-G arm rest and your preferred inclination/height put it there, check your visual reference and adjust, this is very important...

[Positiveclimb01]

Originally Posted by FM_A320

I have the feeling of sinking, even if nothing has changed.

I have the same problem as initially raised by the OP, Could this be due to fixation on the markers ? When the Captain is landing, things seem to be moving so slow although when I’m flying things are happening too fast and the ground seem to be approaching quite fast. Could someone please throw some light on what exactly am I doing wrong.

Thank you

[FM_A320]

I’d be interested too in your opinion regarding previous post. It’s true, when I fly as PM it seems that everything is going really slow and relaxed, thus no big problem if the captain starts flaring at 30’. When I fly myself I see everything going fast, specially as I get close to the ground. Thus becoming a bit ground shy…

[stilton]

Originally Posted by WhatShortage

Keep looking at instruments and transitioning unless you're already on a visual following papis. Don't adjust the pitch up too much on the flare without putting the thrust on idle or the act will accelerate and you'll have a long flare or go around ( this in a normal escenario... At times A BIT of thrust will be needed due to gusts etc)
The act touches firms most likely due to lack of lift and being a bit high on the flare, do the same as you're doing a bit later.

I started doing a "double flare" which I didn't like AND MORE IMPORTANT this is not the correct technique but it helps in the beginning. Lower the rate at~40 flare at ~20.

ALSO VERY IMPORTANT... Seat adjustment? Are you EVERYDAY seated at the same exact position in accordance to your ND/PFD windshield? Meaning, do you always see the same exact picture? Otherwise... You'll continue struggling. Advice from someone flying way too many different a320s from different operators, have a reference on your pedals and arm rest and then adjust it a bit to be exactly the same everyday. Let's say 6 on pedals (this should be the same always), 7-G arm rest and your preferred inclination/height put it there, check your visual reference and adjust, this is very important...

Never flown the Bus but I couldn’t agree more and why I prefer unpowered seats !

Proper seat position and using the same one every time is vital, prematurely retired from the 757/67 now but I still remember my seat position

One up from full down and one forward from full back

And make sure you can get full extension (lock your leg) on the rudder pedals !

[CVividasku]

Having now moved for a few months on a Boeing aircraft, I can assure you, the airbus is much more difficult to land !
It's a joke how easy the Boeing 777 is. It's almost always the same. There are some variations in flare technique, but it feels like 10-20% of the variations in the airbus technique.

On an airbus, you sometimes have to push a little bit because the airplane floats, sometimes pull full back because it sinks. All due to the "picture" taken at 50ft which is fairly random...
The 777 having a completely different system, moreover with speed stability, it feels much more natural.

However the speed stability is a mess in flight, compared to airbus of course.

[easymxp]

Originally Posted by CVividasku

Having now moved for a few months on a Boeing aircraft, I can assure you, the airbus is much more difficult to land !
It's a joke how easy the Boeing 777 is. It's almost always the same. There are some variations in flare technique, but it feels like 10-20% of the variations in the airbus technique.

On an airbus, you sometimes have to push a little bit because the airplane floats, sometimes pull full back because it sinks. All due to the "picture" taken at 50ft which is fairly random...
The 777 having a completely different system, moreover with speed stability, it feels much more natural.

However the speed stability is a mess in flight, compared to airbus of course.

I agree with you. Sometimes landing is beautiful, sometimes terrible on Airbus. Makes sense that the picture at 50’ makes huge difference on the fate of our landings.

[BUSSPilot]

Hello FM A320,

I would say go through the Airbus documents and get your seat position checked. Additionally have it checked when flying with an instructor or a line captain with sufficient knowledge with regard to seat position the next time - perhaps you’re sitting a tad bit low. A low seating position usually gives a feeling of moving a lot faster or sinking during the last few seconds of the landing. As mentioned above, on the 320 ensure you are not making drastic changes to the airplane pitch approaching 50 feet and on the 321 that would be 100 feet. You’ll notice that once you have got that covered, you are in a lot more control with respect to the flare for reasons well documents in the techniques manual.

[Jimmy The Big Greek]

Try using your ears during the flare on the A320, It gives you very good information about your position above the runway and how fast you are going down. Best flare is when you hear 50 40 30 etc with about 1 second interval.