Why is there no "new flight deck option" for the A320 series?
Joined: Nov 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 3,150
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From: UK
Like you, I don't have a problem looking at the N1/EPRs and seeing the auto-thrust changes - they are in my scan anyway.
A surprising number of pilots I have known do not understand the Airbus Ground-speed mini function. If the thrust levers moved and could be held against the clutches, probably those same pilots would get themselves into low energy situations by preventing the thrust levers from responding to Ground-speed mini demands.
A surprising number of pilots I have known do not understand the Airbus Ground-speed mini function. If the thrust levers moved and could be held against the clutches, probably those same pilots would get themselves into low energy situations by preventing the thrust levers from responding to Ground-speed mini demands.
Joined: Jul 2006
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From: Somewhere over the rainbow
Dear God, Again that debate about moving thrust levers or not? Lol
The moving thrust levers did not help on Turkish 1951 and Emirates 521 accidents..
I strongly stand on the team that moving thrust levers are not required. I'm not saying it's a bad idea to have moving thrust levers; I never flew Boeing but I don't think it's necessary at least on Airbus: The primary clue for a faulty auto thrust system is in front of you ( FMA or IAS going abnormally up or down) or your engines parameters ( N1/EPR) pretty much also in front of you. For flying a lot with manual thrust, I barely look at anything else than my speed to adjust the thrust required. The speed trend makes it so easy to fly accurately. I will glance to the N1 during final approach a few times especially in bumpy conditions just to confirm that my N1 is around where it should be. For instance, I know if my N1 is below 40% I would probably need to add some juice at some point, and if above 55% I would certainly need to come back on the thrust to stay close to VAPP. Also looking at the N1 setting help you out to set symmetric thrust.
Back to main topic, I really love the A320 as it is. I don't want it to become like an A350 fully automated.. One thing I wish they could improve are the avionics fans as it's horribly noisy especially for the models not equipped with the avionics fan speed controller with 2 operating speeds..
The moving thrust levers did not help on Turkish 1951 and Emirates 521 accidents..
I strongly stand on the team that moving thrust levers are not required. I'm not saying it's a bad idea to have moving thrust levers; I never flew Boeing but I don't think it's necessary at least on Airbus: The primary clue for a faulty auto thrust system is in front of you ( FMA or IAS going abnormally up or down) or your engines parameters ( N1/EPR) pretty much also in front of you. For flying a lot with manual thrust, I barely look at anything else than my speed to adjust the thrust required. The speed trend makes it so easy to fly accurately. I will glance to the N1 during final approach a few times especially in bumpy conditions just to confirm that my N1 is around where it should be. For instance, I know if my N1 is below 40% I would probably need to add some juice at some point, and if above 55% I would certainly need to come back on the thrust to stay close to VAPP. Also looking at the N1 setting help you out to set symmetric thrust.
Back to main topic, I really love the A320 as it is. I don't want it to become like an A350 fully automated.. One thing I wish they could improve are the avionics fans as it's horribly noisy especially for the models not equipped with the avionics fan speed controller with 2 operating speeds..
Joined: Nov 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 3,150
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From: UK
I don't know how true it is, but I was told that there are air filters in the avionics ventilation system, and these are rarely changed ?
Thus, the ventilation fans have to increase their speed to maintain the avionics cooling airflow as the filters become clogged.
It certainly seemed to me that the ventilation in our older A320/321s was much more noisy than in the newer ones, (and that airline did have some aircraft with very low serial numbers).
Thus, the ventilation fans have to increase their speed to maintain the avionics cooling airflow as the filters become clogged.
It certainly seemed to me that the ventilation in our older A320/321s was much more noisy than in the newer ones, (and that airline did have some aircraft with very low serial numbers).
Joined: Mar 2006
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From: USA
I didn't know there was such an option. The avionics fans seem to be most of the noise in the cockpit.
Joined: Jul 2006
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From: Somewhere over the rainbow
You can use the search function “Fan Speed Controller” in your FCOM and you will find it. It’s actually at the very beginning of the FCOM in the General Information. It does not make a big difference but still noticeable. Only few aircraft in our fleet have it; Unfortunately not the latest models anymore; They did not buy this option..From what I understand without this option, the fans will just run at high speed continuously regardless of the temperature. But with this option and when the temperature is under a certain threshold the fans go to a slower speed and that’s when you can notice the difference.
Joined: May 2009
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From: somewhere in the middle
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 480
Likes: 27
From: at the edge of the alps
Revisiting this after a couple of years and an Airbus rating, I'll add the following that might not be strictly "required" but quite useful:
- RNP data block on PFD or ND
- a larger PFD attitude sphere and/or "full screen" horizon with overlaid speed and altitude scales; the pitch gradation is very small
- a vertical situation display
- more than one category of APT/CSTR/etc. at the same time
- a speed deviation indication (like on HUDs)
- automatic power-on of IRS
- a flyable FD guidance when using the FPV
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 357
Likes: 487
From: NSW
Revisiting this after a couple of years and an Airbus rating, I'll add the following that might not be strictly "required" but quite useful:
- RNP data block on PFD or ND
- a larger PFD attitude sphere and/or "full screen" horizon with overlaid speed and altitude scales; the pitch gradation is very small
- a vertical situation display
- more than one category of APT/CSTR/etc. at the same time
- a speed deviation indication (like on HUDs)
- automatic power-on of IRS
- a flyable FD guidance when using the FPV
Seperate trk and FPA.
Oh can you also just tell me what the number is of my Exact track/heading/speed and not have some green diamond or bug that I'm supposed to look at.
But I'll give everything up if you just have STS msgs and ecam system that is actually useful for all failures and don't require me to open the dam fcom to make sure there are no surprises.
"Oh you have a ra1&2 fault sir.. No biggie. Oh you want gear down? Well guess what.. surprise direct law mother f@cker!!
Haw-haw Je t'emmerde!"
I actually like the Airbus (don't know anything about the 350) but the 787 non normal system is exactly how it should be done.
If someone could hurry up and build an aircraft with the Airbus cockpit and comfort, Boeing displays, 787 non normals system, Airbus normal procedures and CDU id appreciate it.
Joined: Apr 2019
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 19
Likes: 16
From: YUL
Revisiting this after a couple of years and an Airbus rating, I'll add the following that might not be strictly "required" but quite useful:
- RNP data block on PFD or ND
- a larger PFD attitude sphere and/or "full screen" horizon with overlaid speed and altitude scales; the pitch gradation is very small
- a vertical situation display
- more than one category of APT/CSTR/etc. at the same time
- a speed deviation indication (like on HUDs)
- automatic power-on of IRS
- a flyable FD guidance when using the FPV
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 937
Likes: 67
From: USA
Oh FFS. The Airbus FBW thrust lever system works perfectly and intuitively. Way better than the Boeing moving lever system. (And, yes, I am type rated on, and have flown both).
You should look at the speed trend arrow on the PFD and the engine N1/EPR gauges anyway, so moving thrust levers tell you very little extra and add complications with TOGA etc.
You should look at the speed trend arrow on the PFD and the engine N1/EPR gauges anyway, so moving thrust levers tell you very little extra and add complications with TOGA etc.
We used to be allowed to use 'phase advance'; where a little push or pull on the thrust levers would correct a "slow" auto-thrust, but presumably too many pilots did not fully understand the sequence and cocked it up and got into difficulties, so it was withdrawn.
What, actually, do moving thrust levers tell you that the Airbus FBW family doesn't?
Ope, I also see that this is a few years old now.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 480
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From: at the edge of the alps
Probably an option more popular with operators flying both HUD and non-HUD aircraft. When we got a couple of HUD planes the HUD was deactivated and later removed. I second IFALPA: every plane should have a HUD.
Joined: Dec 2025
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
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From: England
Having said that, Airbus managed to be certified to do CAT 3C with no HUD so there’s not really an economic argument for it- in fact many A350 operators don’t go for the HUD option whereas I believe it’s standard on the 787 (777x also?) and was required to allow 737s to go below CAT 1 minima
Joined: Sep 2011
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From: FL390
Just to check, this is the same aircraft and ECL system which has an electronic checklist for "Loss of all displays"?
If we're stealing things from the 787, I'd quite like the 1024 mile range on the ND, the ability to fling my cursor onto any display just by pushing in the corner with it, CPDLC uplinks to automatically go across to the FCU and be validated against the message, and proper foot heaters.
If we're stealing things from the 787, I'd quite like the 1024 mile range on the ND, the ability to fling my cursor onto any display just by pushing in the corner with it, CPDLC uplinks to automatically go across to the FCU and be validated against the message, and proper foot heaters.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 480
Likes: 27
From: at the edge of the alps
I’ve never flown with a HUD but talking to those that have it’s a clear upgrade during landings and a bit of a cheat code if I’m being honest by the sounds of it (-3 degree line, FPV, speed trend)
Having said that, Airbus managed to be certified to do CAT 3C with no HUD so there’s not really an economic argument for it- in fact many A350 operators don’t go for the HUD option whereas I believe it’s standard on the 787 (777x also?) and was required to allow 737s to go below CAT 1 minima
Having said that, Airbus managed to be certified to do CAT 3C with no HUD so there’s not really an economic argument for it- in fact many A350 operators don’t go for the HUD option whereas I believe it’s standard on the 787 (777x also?) and was required to allow 737s to go below CAT 1 minima
- a clear picture of how high you are in relation to clouds ahead
- a very high resolution ADI with flight path (when training we always felt we were flying all over the place as the HUD indications kept moving but when you observed the same approach on the PFD everything looked like frozen in place)
- an energy state indication
- a speed deviation indication showing whether you're fast or slow compared to selected speed
- an "upset" mode with clearer guidance towards the normal attitude
- guidance where to point the airplane for a TCAS manoeuvre rather than having to hunt a VS
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 229
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From: New York
There was a plan announced in 2020 to upgrade the A320 & A330 ACP / RMP / ATC avionics into a single integrated unit knowns as DRAIMS. The plan was to start installing the system from 2021 but I believe it’s delayed or on hold (maybe due to supply chain issues)?
https://aircraft.airbus.com/en/newsr...-communication
https://aircraft.airbus.com/en/newsr...-communication
