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Airbus 320 new SOPs

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Airbus 320 new SOPs

Old 9th May 2022, 18:12
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Question Airbus 320 new SOPs

For those who are implementing the new Airbus 320 SOPs

Changing the wording from Smokes to smoke/fumes is a improvement


Wondering how they are working for you? Are they better for you or not?
What do these changes in the FCOM have to do with the new A321 NEO FCOM?

Re PRO-NOR-TSK
Dont see how now having the CM2 doing the battery check and starting is a improvement?
So now as the CM2 is the one always starting the APU, the Captain starting the APU is a SOP incompliance according to the Airbus SOPs.

Also only the CM2 (FO) aligns the IRs, interested to hear from the genius at Airbus behind this change. Makes me miss Boeing

The Captain is now the one that FM database validity. Such a genius new SOP change from Airbus. (?)


why re-invent the wheel again?
A penny for your thoughts.

Last edited by Manual Pitch Trim; 9th May 2022 at 18:27.
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Old 10th May 2022, 04:25
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We did not implement the new SOP yet but I agree some of these changes are unnecessary IMHO. But I have to say Iím looking forward to use the new shorter checklist! =)
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Old 10th May 2022, 06:44
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Originally Posted by pineteam View Post
We did not implement the new SOP yet but I agree some of these changes are unnecessary IMHO. But I have to say Iím looking forward to use the new shorter checklist! =)
My company doesn't use Airbus procedures, but I'd be interested to see your new shorter checklist.
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Old 10th May 2022, 06:49
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It'd be interesting to go back to airbus SOP. At my company, whoever gets to the plane first aligns the IRS. Whoever gets hot/cold first starts the APU, and both pilots check the database.
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Old 10th May 2022, 07:12
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We have been using new airbus SOPs, briefings and checklists since december 2021, everythings works well and more comfortable. Lots of things should now be discussed ,especially during preflight (prelim and cocpit prep parts). But they deleted After t/o climb checklist, imho very safety related one. I.e. l/g up should be checked
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Old 10th May 2022, 09:44
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Originally Posted by Check Airman View Post
My company doesn't use Airbus procedures, but I'd be interested to see your new shorter checklist.


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Old 10th May 2022, 10:02
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Originally Posted by Sergei.a320 View Post
We have been using new airbus SOPs, briefings and checklists since december 2021, everythings works well and more comfortable. Lots of things should now be discussed ,especially during preflight (prelim and cocpit prep parts). But they deleted After t/o climb checklist, imho very safety related one. I.e. l/g up should be checked
I’m happy about it actually. Let’s be honnest this aircraft is so well designed that you could fly it safely without any checklist if the crew were properly trained and were following SOP strictly. All the critical items are monitored and displayed on the memo, PFD and ND( WX radar& PWS). I mean for example the current landing check list in my outfit :
-CABIN CREW…Advised
Not a big deal if not advised, gears down is their trigger.

-A/THR…. SPEED/OFF
Lol.. Really? You don’t know the status of your A/THR??!

-Autobrake… As required
Should have been briefed and set already during approach preparation. Also, when PM set gears down he should confirm the Autobrake status by SOP.

-BARO REF… SET (both)
Ok this one is critical but already mentioned just before in the approach checklist…
- ECAM MEMO….Landing no blue
The only one I agree is kind of necessary on the landing checklist.

With the new checklist, a proper monitoring from both pilots is enough IMHO. We had cases of crew forgetting to retract the gears even so it was acknowledged “up” by the PF after PM read it on the checklist. Or another case they will do the checklist then realised the gears are still down and then retract above 220kt..
I’m happy they removed the after take off climb checklist. All we have to do is to train the pilots to add in their scan the landing gears indicators lights after selection of flaps zero.

Last edited by pineteam; 10th May 2022 at 12:07. Reason: typo
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Old 10th May 2022, 10:19
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IMHO a vast improvement.

there is always a reason why something was changed. More often than not a good or clever reason. Ask your training department. They should have the info.
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Old 10th May 2022, 10:34
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I've always wondered why companies use their SOP as opposed to the OEM SOP. Why do some people think they know better than the guys who actually made the machine?
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Old 10th May 2022, 10:53
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Originally Posted by T54A View Post
I've always wondered why companies use their SOP as opposed to the OEM SOP. Why do some people think they know better than the guys who actually made the machine?
Changes aren't necessarily about thinking you know more than the manufacturer, it could be about helping things flow better for crews or for maintenance reasons. All whilst having the OEM SOPs as a base to work from.

In making changes to SOPs many operators CAMO departments et al, will be talking to the manufacturer anyway.
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Old 10th May 2022, 15:29
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Originally Posted by T54A View Post
I've always wondered why companies use their SOP as opposed to the OEM SOP. Why do some people think they know better than the guys who actually made the machine?
The OEM checklist may be well-designed, or it may be absolute trash that is literally unusable. Like, I remember King Air landing checklists that went all the way up through "Brakes.... APPLY" and things like that. How are you ever supposed to complete it? It wasn't made with any forethought as to when each item would be performed with respect to when the checklist could be completed, when is an OK time to be heads down looking at a piece of paper, etc. Someone just puked out a list of steps in operating the airplane and called it a "checklist" and that was that.
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Old 10th May 2022, 15:42
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Originally Posted by T54A View Post
I've always wondered why companies use their SOP as opposed to the OEM SOP. Why do some people think they know better than the guys who actually made the machine?
A good lesson in why not to do it. https://www.atsb.gov.au/media/793232/ao2007044.pdf
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Old 10th May 2022, 18:28
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Originally Posted by compressor stall View Post
A good lesson in why not to do it. https://www.atsb.gov.au/media/793232/ao2007044.pdf
This is very good example why line pilots shouldn't be making procedures. If they want to then must consult the OEM first.
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Old 11th May 2022, 00:49
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Originally Posted by Sergei.a320 View Post
We have been using new airbus SOPs, briefings and checklists since december 2021, everythings works well and more comfortable. Lots of things should now be discussed ,especially during preflight (prelim and cocpit prep parts). But they deleted After t/o climb checklist, imho very safety related one. I.e. l/g up should be checked
I switched companies on April to a company using Airbus OEM procedures. I must say it's quite a change in some regards to my previous outfit, mainly in the before start checklist part. I've liked the briefings, makes it a bit more engaging for both CMs. How are you guys briefing the SID, STAR, IAPs? It would seem that as we both checked the FMS preparation against the chart we are not required to read it like we used to, but one can miss a note that's printed on the chart somewhere, just because we're just checking the WPTs and constraints... Any input on this? Also, do you guys switch PF roles as each crewmember briefs their part? I guess the changes are... interesting? But I guess we're sort of used to little annoying changes here and there from Airbus haha

I must be getting old... it's weird taking off and not calling for any kind of checklist!
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Old 11th May 2022, 01:06
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Originally Posted by pineteam View Post
Thanks. Any idea why they removed ATHR from the landing checklist?
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Old 11th May 2022, 02:54
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Originally Posted by pineteam View Post
Iím happy about it actually. Letís be honnest this aircraft is so well designed that you could fly it safely without any checklist if the crew were properly trained and were following SOP strictly. All the critical items are monitored and displayed on the memo, PFD and ND( WX radar& PWS). I mean for example the current landing check list in my outfit :
Not a big deal if not advised, gears down is their trigger.

Lol.. Really? You donít know the status of your A/THR??!

Should have been briefed and set already during approach preparation. Also, when PM set gears down he should confirm the Autobrake status by SOP.

Ok this one is critical but already mentioned just before in the approach checklistÖ
The only one I agree is kind of necessary on the landing checklist.

With the new checklist, a proper monitoring from both pilots is enough IMHO. We had cases of crew forgetting to retract the gears even so it was acknowledged ďupĒ by the PF after PM read it on the checklist. Or another case they will do the checklist then realised the gears are still down and then retract above 220kt..
Iím happy they removed the after take off climb checklist. All we have to do is to train the pilots to add in their scan the landing gears indicators lights after selection of flaps zero.
So when Airbus published SB that there would be changes to FCOM /FCTM/QRH/ CHECKLIST , there was an additional document with explanation of every change in checklist. There was a table with related risks of every item in C/L (ACFT damage, Human injure etc.) I have this one but I'm unable to attach it here. I think there all the answers to ur questions.
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Old 11th May 2022, 02:59
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Originally Posted by Check Airman View Post
Thanks. Any idea why they removed ATHR from the landing checklist?
From explanation document : "Basic pilot competency to be aware of energy of the aircraft.
Know the FMA and A/THR mode at all time.
Not specific to landing.

Desicion:
Line is deleted."
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Old 11th May 2022, 03:06
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Originally Posted by T54A View Post
I've always wondered why companies use their SOP as opposed to the OEM SOP. Why do some people think they know better than the guys who actually made the machine?
Most of all they don't change manufactures SOPs significantly, the try to do it more conservative... As an example our Company policy force us to check Flight controls before taxi and strictly doesnt recommend to do it if acft is moving...and reason of this was a couple of takeoffs without f.ctl check...
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Old 11th May 2022, 03:13
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Originally Posted by Sergei.a320 View Post
So when Airbus published SB that there would be changes to FCOM /FCTM/QRH/ CHECKLIST , there was an additional document with explanation of every change in checklist. There was a table with related risks of every item in C/L (ACFT damage, Human injure etc.) I have this one but I'm unable to attach it here. I think there all the answers to ur questions.
Hi Sergei.

Interesting! Thanks. Any chance you can email me this document? If yes please PM me and I will give you my email. Cheers. =)

Last edited by pineteam; 11th May 2022 at 03:37. Reason: Typo
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Old 11th May 2022, 03:30
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Originally Posted by pineteam View Post
Hi Sergei.

Interesting! Thanks. Any change you can email me this document? If yes please PM me and I will give you my email. Cheers. =)
+1 on this one, if possible. Thanks!
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