Flying TRACK iso HEADING

[Vessbot]

Yes, it is difficult in the situation the thread is about.

Situation 1: (note: this is not the one the thread is about) Flying a Cessna 172 on downwind when there's a crosswind. What to do: Turn the nose slightly into the wind, look at whether you're travelling parallel to the runway, if not then turn slightly to correct, return to "look at..." and repeat as necessary

Situation 2: (note: this is the one the thread is about) Flying a jet under IFR, when ATC says "Speedwood 6969, fly track 280." Procedure: ???

Can you fill in the "???" (never mind a Cessna 172 under IFR getting the same instruction...)

Before you say something like "easy, select track 280!" Remember that many, many jets (including ones with FMS and IRS and GPS and lots of other acronyms) don't have this feature.

[FlightDetent]

Perfect wording - feature is missing. The thread is also about the fact that all these aircraft have that capability.

[BraceBrace]

Originally Posted by ahramin

When flying a visual circuit yes, turns are 90°. If the runway direction is 180°, downwind track is 360°, base is 90°, and final is 180°. It's very simple and there's no need to worry about air masses.

Give any aircraft 25kts tailwind on base, and you will see the effect of the 90° turn thinker. He will overshoot final and end up high on glideslope. Happens on c172, but also on simple LOC intercepts on Boeing 737 unfortunately... because your track line when you start the turn does not give you any clue of the track line leaving the turn. Track lines don’t anticipate future wind, they are a depiction of your actual situation. Even though track changes are 90°, your aircraft will have to turn more, and we fly the required HDG changes. If your APFD used 25° bank standard on vectors... you will overshoot. (777 was crazy in this respect as far as I remember)

Again, we can provide track changes to ATC, no problem. But to maneuver and to know how much, we need HDG on our display. This is how our visual brains are trained when we learn to fly, and this is transfered in IFR through headings.

[ahramin]

Originally Posted by Vessbot

Situation 2: (note: this is the one the thread is about) Flying a jet under IFR, when ATC says "Speedwood 6969, fly track 280." Procedure: ???

Can you fill in the "???" (never mind a Cessna 172 under IFR getting the same instruction...)

Before you say something like "easy, select track 280!" Remember that many, many jets (including ones with FMS and IRS and GPS and lots of other acronyms) don't have this feature.

Yes, easiest is to select track 280. If your aircraft doesn't have a track mode, you select HDG and adjust it to track 280. I've never flown a jet that didn't display track somewhere, but in that case I'd just say "unable". Not that hard.

[ScepticalOptomist]

Originally Posted by Vessbot

Situation 2: (note: this is the one the thread is about) Flying a jet under IFR, when ATC says "Speedwood 6969, fly track 280." Procedure: ???

Can you fill in the "???" (never mind a Cessna 172 under IFR getting the same instruction...)

I’m not sure why you are making out that this is difficult. In every jet I’ve flown I’ve either had an INS with track read out or a nav display (HDG up or TRK up).

The procedure is the same for both - turn onto a HDG of 280 plus or minus some into-the-wind correction. Check what TRK you are actually flying and then adjust.

[FlightDetent]

Originally Posted by ScepticalOptomist

Check what TRK you are actually flying and then adjust.

I humbly admit flying HDG in the same way - turn towards the mark and don't stop until it's there. Undershoots, overshoots, leaning closer, tapping the needle and cleaning glasses all included.

[sputnik01]

ahramin

It will happen eventually/soon in Maastricht-UAC, EDYY ... (2/3 of the aircraft can fly Track iso HDG by the push of a button).

[jmmoric]

That's gonna be fun.

Now the pilots and controllers have to deal with the "confusion" about what to fly, track or heading, and pilots making the wrong selections both in Maastrict and other sectors/FIR's as well. The good thing about heading, is that everyone uses them, hence noone is in doubt.